WHAT THE HECK IS HAPPENING?

[Sabellafella]

here are pictures of the 2 fish that are showing symptoms as of right now, let me know what you think. BOTH FISH ARE EATING ENDLESSLY, no pinched fins as of yet no gasping for air from what i can see and are both still swimming around the tank. @Cory @melev @Sabellafella @Humblefish @melypr1985

The yellow tang looks to have velvet. If you cant or wont qt theres nothing you can do other then freshwater dips. Honestly this disease is equivalent to like ebola. If you dont contain it and treat it trust me it will spread. They qt the human and run the earth fallow for 21 days (ich nd mv is 72 i think) lol. Some saltwater diseases/parasites can even be transfered threw the air thats how crazy it is to deal with stuff like this. My advice to you , grab a 20long a heater a mj nd some copper. Itll pay for it in the long run otherwise ur going to loose more fish and more money then what the qt cost. You could always use the tank as a frag tank or waterchange tank like i do with mine

 

[Sabellafella]

You could dip the tang in 1 liter tank water with 5ml h202 for 30 mins. You will see those ruptures fall off too.

However id even wait if hes eating good. I would use it for really bad situations. My fish was way worse than yours and lived. You can even dose the tank with h202.

Heres a thread with success dosing in the tank for velvet, even worse than ich:
http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/283706-hydrogen-peroxide-to-treat-velvet/

And something like this

 

[Cory]

Im no disease expert but if its not ich definitely do h202 bath.

This is when id say dip the fish:

 

[Cory]

This is how my clown looked and lived with h202 bath:

 

[garra671]

And something like this

if the fish do have velvet. what am i to do with my tank? wont the disease still be alive inside of my DT? i cant pull my corals and everything out as well.

 

[Sabellafella]

This is how my clown looked and lived with h202 bath:

Oh my thats overwhelming

 

[Sabellafella]

if the fish do have velvet. what am i to do with my tank? wont the disease still be alive inside of my DT? i cant pull my corals and everything out as well.

Ok so if you catch the fish Nd treat them in a separate tank . you run ur display tank in the meantime for around 72 days fishless witch gives the disease/parasite enuff time to die out. They cant live without a fish to host on. I kno its ruff a little more then 2 months of boredom and alot of effort. I consider people lucky for not qt there fish and not having problems for years but unforunantly you fell in the infected category and thats what you need to do to cure it. Humblefish is the guru and has kindly supplied a list of all treatments under the treatment and disease thread. It happens man, to the people who qt and to the people who never qtd its just the way it goes. Goodluck tho, in the meantime just make sure they are eating like crazy untill you figure out what route you take(edit your corals will be fine in the tank just makre sure u feed them because their will b no fish to do the job)

 

[Cory]

You can dose your tank with h202 if you cant catch the fish, but snails, crabs, hair algae, and soft corals will likely die from it. Sps and lps dont seem to mind.

In that thread i posted they dosed the tank. Not sure on the dosage.

But its better to take control of the fish and quarantine them with medication.

Ime Most outbreaks like that are made worse by poor water quality. What are your parameters?

 

[garra671]

You can dose your tank with h202 if you cant catch the fish, but snails, crabs, hair algae, and soft corals will likely die from it. Sps and lps dont seem to mind.

In that thread i posted they dosed the tank. Not sure on the dosage.

But its better to take control of the fish and quarantine them with medication.

Ime Most outbreaks like that are made worse by poor water quality. What are your parameters?

i just did a water change cause my PH was pretty low... around 7.6-8.0 and i saw a posting about the bloody streak on my yellow tang dorsal fin could have been caused by low PH and maybe thats whats stressing him out and causing all of this. im still holding onto a small bit of hope that its ich and not velvet.

 

[Cory]

What is your alkalinity, and salinity?

 

[garra671]

Ok so if you catch the fish Nd treat them in a separate tank . you run ur display tank in the meantime for around 72 days fishless witch gives the disease/parasite enuff time to die out. They cant live without a fish to host on. I kno its ruff a little more then 2 months of boredom and alot of effort. I consider people lucky for not qt there fish and not having problems for years but unforunantly you fell in the infected category and thats what you need to do to cure it. Humblefish is the guru and has kindly supplied a list of all treatments under the treatment and disease thread. It happens man, to the people who qt and to the people who never qtd its just the way it goes. Goodluck tho, in the meantime just make sure they are eating like crazy untill you figure out what route you take(edit your corals will be fine in the tank just makre sure u feed them because their will b no fish to do the job)

when looking at my tank i stumbled across this my heart litterly skipped a beat for a moment because it was so surprising id never seen it in the tank before, do you or anyone else know what it is? i thought it was a brittle star but i cant be sure. i find it hard to believe its gone unnoticed this long (my last liverock add was over 3 months ago)

 

[garra671]

What is your alkalinity, and salinity?

salinity is stable at 1.025 ive never been able to get it to go down past 1.027 but in my last water change about a week ago it dropped to 1.025 maybe thats what caused all of this. as of right this very moment its hovering just slightly below 1.025 about 1.024.8 (i was low on saltwater when i did the water change tonight) alk im not sure

 

[Cory]

Looks like a bristle worm. Pretty harmless. But fireworms are worse.

 

[Cory]

salinity is stable at 1.025 ive never been able to get it to go down past 1.027 but in my last water change about a week ago it dropped to 1.025 maybe thats what caused all of this. as of right this very moment its hovering just slightly below 1.025 about 1.024.8 (i was low on saltwater when i did the water change tonight) alk im not sure

You definitely must know your alk. Salinity is fine but id keep it at 1.026.
What are you measuring salinity with?

 

[garra671]

You definitely must know your alk. Salinity is fine but id keep it at 1.026.
What are you measuring salinity with?

refractometer

 

[Cory]

Ok id check your alkalinity. This in my experience is a perpetrator of disease outbreaks. Low alk and ph.

Alk is someting to keep stable between 7-11dkh

 

[Triggreef]

Copper has its own issues - and it too can be quite lethal to the host....

We assume a 70+ fallow period from studies which were conducted on cold water species of ich...there are thousands of strains...including some which lie dormant in the tissue of fish itself for up to five months where copper is of little use...

It seems to me...if your going to rationalized a 70+ day fallow period on the "exceptional" case of cold water strains - then following that logic - copper treatments might be extended to six months - just to be sure...its a bit silly.

Neither Ich or velvet are lethal at low concentrations...run your tank to limit their density and it becomes what it is in nature...an opprotunistic pest which the fishes own immune system can deal with and which is seldom if ever lethal.

There are some silly comments here. Starting with the 70 day treatment with copper. If you follow the ich life cycle, even those cold water studies show the ich dropped off the fish within 7 days. So in 7 days of copper the fish should be ich free. Figure a 2 week treatment period to be safe and then the fish should be moved to a clean system. I never had any issues using cuppramine I don't use it anymore due to my own impatience.

The comment about ich and velvet not being lethal... Well anyone that's had them knows that's not the case. It's only a matter of time. People who refuse to quarantine and "manage ich" by keeping their fish healthy and feeding heavy etc don't tend to last long in the hobby.

As far as peroxide dips, velvet is well know to have a faster life cycle than ich. It's also does not burrow into the fish as deep as ich does which means velvet is more easily treated with a dip, however if you dip and put it back into an infected tank it will simply become reinfected. That's why for velvet @Humblefish recommended a dip prior to treating for some initial relief.

To me the fish our original poster showed us look like velvet not ich. Velvet spots are smaller and quite a bit more covering even the fishes eye.

Hopefully the original poster can weed through the info in this thread and find what will help.

I do like the references to hp dosing but unfortunately it is pretty much unchartered territory and can be quite stressful if dosed to high.

 

[Triggreef]

@Cory that clown looks like Brook so it's no surprise the dip method worked. Brook has been known to be treatable even in the infected tank with multiple dips. I never dealt with it so I'm not familiar with the exact process. Impressive save none the less.

 

[garra671]

Ok id check your alkalinity. This in my experience is a perpetrator of disease outbreaks. Low alk and ph.

Alk is someting to keep stable between 7-11dkh

is it possible for the fish to make it through the disease with just freshwater dips and medicated foods? i know the disease will stay in the system but as long as the fish isnt stressed

There are some silly comments here. Starting with the 70 day treatment with copper. If you follow the ich life cycle, even those cold water studies show the ich dropped off the fish within 7 days. So in 7 days of copper the fish should be ich free. Figure a 2 week treatment period to be safe and then the fish should be moved to a clean system. I never had any issues using cuppramine I don't use it anymore due to my own impatience.

The comment about ich and velvet not being lethal... Well anyone that's had them knows that's not the case. It's only a matter of time. People who refuse to quarantine and "manage ich" by keeping their fish healthy and feeding heavy etc don't tend to last long in the hobby.

As far as peroxide dips, velvet is well know to have a faster life cycle than ich. It's also does not burrow into the fish as deep as ich does which means velvet is more easily treated with a dip, however if you dip and put it back into an infected tank it will simply become reinfected. That's why for velvet @Humblefish recommended a dip prior to treating for some initial relief.

To me the fish our original poster showed us look like velvet not ich. Velvet spots are smaller and quite a bit more covering even the fishes eye.

Hopefully the original poster can weed through the info in this thread and find what will help.

I do like the references to hp dosing but unfortunately it is pretty much unchartered territory and can be quite stressful if dosed to high.

can you take a look at my 2nd set of pictures (the clownfish and yellow tang) and tell me what you think. i just want to know for sure what im dealing with before i even deal with it.

 

[Cory]

@Cory that clown looks like Brook so it's no surprise the dip method worked. Brook has been known to be treatable even in the infected tank with multiple dips. I never dealt with it so I'm not familiar with the exact process. Impressive save none the less.

That was an example and not my fish but it looked very similar. Good to know.