When does bioload become an issue?

Ike · Jun 4, 2019

People's desire for quick fixes and dumping something in their tank to fix a complex problem is out of control on this hobby. All the carbon dosing, nitrates and PO4 dosing will end badly for most that mess with it. If PO4 and nitrate is undetectable do something to add more naturally. Dosing something to manipulate the ratios will result in a never ending chase for numbers and an unnatural bacterial population that just strives to consume more and more of the nutrients you're adding.

Add more fish, feed more, skim less, take out the chaeto and algae filters, these all make sense. The dosing of a carbon source and/or nitrates and PO4 of some type does not and will create a potentially dangerous situation. Drive phosphorous and nitrogen just a little too low and you can do a lot of damage to corals. They are essential components for life! Also, just because you're dosing some nitrogen supplement doesn't mean it's directly benefiting your corals.

ScottB · Jun 4, 2019

@DivingTheWorld I recall earlier in the thread @Ernie Crucet displayed his bazooka UV steriliser. I also recall @Ernie Crucet on some dinoflagellate thread, engaged in a battle similar to mine.

Perhaps I am answering your earlier question "what happens to your corals when your nutrients ..?"

Well, in my case my corals were actually doing OK with my nutrients bouncing around 0/0, probably growth limited but not bleached. And then BAM! Ostreopsis. Took almost 6 weeks to get to the point where I was not scrubbing, blasting, filtering, dosing (more like dumping) Na3PO4 and NaNO2 every single day.

I will never go NEAR 0/0 again.

mitch91175 · Jun 4, 2019

Ernie Crucet said:
Yes our tanks are very similar, my nitrate and phosphates usually stay at around 6/.04 I also run the skimmer to help with PH as i run air intake from outside, but doesn't help too much, I also dose Kalk overnight to keep it from dropping while lights off. I don't dose regularly, but maybe weekly if tests show a dip in NO3/PO4. Don't plan on doing anything drastic but maybe reduce chaeto and observe, maybe i should just leave some live rock rubble in the sump and eventually eliminate the chaeto. I just worry about algae starting to grow in the display. Right now i just have random bubble algea that i pick off here and there.

I guess my question is why take out the chaeto at all? Why not just prune it and always have the natural filtration available when something else isn't working the way you expect. Continue to feed your fish and not worry much about low mutrients. If they are that low then heck you are ahead of the game. Feed your coral/fish what you want. But then you'll see your nutrients increase if you go overboard. It is a balancing act and to me removing the chaeto would be a mistake. I use chaeto religiously with helping control nutrients.

For your pH issues, do not know what your daily consumption is, but have you considered running kalkwasser in place of evaporation? What about a properly setup CO2 scrubber? Running the line outside doesn't always work (it depends on the length of run, size of pipe, etc going outside to be somewhat effective). My pH right now is hitting 8.35 but I am also running a CO2 scrubber and dosing kalk. I also notice the increased growth from the increased pH.

What I am seeing is that the higher I get my pH, to more I can add kalk and the more consumption occurs resulting in adding more kalk. It seems like a cycle that once you figure out with your tank, you can definitely use something like kalk to increase your pH to increase your consumption so you find a sweet spot that doesn't increase your dKH.

Ike · Jun 4, 2019

mitch91175 said:
I guess my question is why take out the chaeto at all? Why not just prune it and always have the natural filtration available when something else isn't working the way you expect. Continue to feed your fish and not worry much about low mutrients. If they are that low then heck you are ahead of the game. Feed your coral/fish what you want. But then you'll see your nutrients increase if you go overboard. It is a balancing act and to me removing the chaeto would be a mistake. I use chaeto religiously with helping control nutrients.

For your pH issues, do not know what your daily consumption is, but have you considered running kalkwasser in place of evaporation? What about a properly setup CO2 scrubber? Running the line outside doesn't always work (it depends on the length of run, size of pipe, etc going outside to be somewhat effective). My pH right now is hitting 8.35 but I am also running a CO2 scrubber and dosing kalk. I also notice the increased growth from the increased pH.

What I am seeing is that the higher I get my pH, to more I can add kalk and the more consumption occurs resulting in adding more kalk. It seems like a cycle that once you figure out with your tank, you can definitely use something like kalk to increase your pH to increase your consumption so you find a sweet spot that doesn't increase your dKH.

You've clearly never seen the effects of driving certain nutrients too low. It can do serious and lasting damage pretty quickly.

Also, to the OP, I would suggest just being fine with your lower PH levels as long as CO2 buildup isn't your issue.

mitch91175 · Jun 5, 2019

Ike said:
You've clearly never seen the effects of driving certain nutrients too low. It can do serious and lasting damage pretty quickly.

Also, to the OP, I would suggest just being fine with your lower PH levels as long as CO2 buildup isn't your issue.

I guess I haven't honestly. In all of my 18+ years of reefing I have never had 0 nitrates or 0 phosphates for any period longer than a day (if even that). I even now sit here and ask myself why would you want to strip out all the nutrients anyway (rhetorical question I know why people do it, just never understood the logic). You strip them out to turn around and dose them back. I get if they are too high and you do things to lower them some but strip the tank I do not get.

If you have a problem with 0 pmm PO4, simple solution is feed more. Here is a great article by @Randy Holmes-Farley for PO4 levels in common foods: https://www.advancedaquarist.com/20...Fl_vE7TMMOGX-_eF-cymu0gVhu-70asQiP1i0mT-h_Hx4

If you have issues with 0 ppm NO3, skim less/filter less.