When does bioload become an issue?

[Ernie C]

Just wondering about bioload. I've always thought bioload was tied to tank size, but if i can barely keep my nutrients up and find myself dosing to keep nitrates and phosphates from zeroing out and causing issues, does this mean my bioload can be increased? I already think i have an overstocked tank. I have a Red Sea Reefer 350 (93 gallon total volume)
4 blue green chromis
1 Dotty back
1 sailfin tang
1 yellow coris
1 coral beauty
3 blue damsels
2 percula clowns
5 blue legged hermits
coral banded shrimp
15-20 astrea snails
6 emerald crabs

 

[Matt Carden]

Bioload is more so tied to your biological filtration surface area: Live rock, sand, biospheres, etc.

 

[HawaiianReef]

I agree with Matt.
Your bioload is tied into your system, or how it's treating all the unused waste.
If you do find the low nutrients problematic, I would suggest starting there. Tuning your filtration system.
If your running the same equipment the RSReefer came with, you could simply turn off the skimmer for a feww hours a day. If you added a refugium or algae reactor, you can turn the lights off of that for a few hours. If you have a gfo reactor, adjust that with less media. I think you see where Im going here. But I recommend just doing one thing at a time. And give it some time. You can test for the nutrients, but if you don't see a rise, give it a couple weeks before you start adding another element into the equation.
From my experience, over skimming seems to be my problem when nutrients are low. For me low is more related to how my livestock is doing than how my test kits read. I usually adjust my filtration, or nutrient export, by how my corals behave. But thats me. Everyone has their way to manage, and test/verify their results.

 

[Deezill]

@Ernie Crucet you asked "When does bioload become an issue? It becomes an issue when you have skyrocketing NO3. If you begin to see high numbers and you know your test kits are accurate than you might have too high of a bioload that your filtration system can't handle or is having a hard time exporting waste.

 

[Ernie C]

i have low ph issues so have outside air coming into the skimmer so don't really want to turn it off. I don't have any other reactors or media just some chaeto and rubble in the sump that i have lit over night until the tank lights come on. So far the tank is doing great after dealing with some uglies, but sometimes you want that extra fish and i don't want to push my luck. =)
If i could only catch those pesky damsels. lol

 

[ScottR]

I agree with Matt.
Your bioload is tied into your system, or how it's treating all the unused waste.
If you do find the low nutrients problematic, I would suggest starting there. Tuning your filtration system.
If your running the same equipment the RSReefer came with, you could simply turn off the skimmer for a feww hours a day. If you added a refugium or algae reactor, you can turn the lights off of that for a few hours. If you have a gfo reactor, adjust that with less media. I think you see where Im going here. But I recommend just doing one thing at a time. And give it some time. You can test for the nutrients, but if you don't see a rise, give it a couple weeks before you start adding another element into the equation.
From my experience, over skimming seems to be my problem when nutrients are low. For me low is more related to how my livestock is doing than how my test kits read. I usually adjust my filtration, or nutrient export, by how my corals behave. But thats me. Everyone has their way to manage, and test/verify their results.

+1

 

[cain720]

i have low ph issues so have outside air coming into the skimmer so don't really want to turn it off. I don't have any other reactors or media just some chaeto and rubble in the sump that i have lit over night until the tank lights come on. So far the tank is doing great after dealing with some uglies, but sometimes you want that extra fish and i don't want to push my luck. =)
If i could only catch those pesky damsels. lol

So you're running a skimmer and a refugium while dosing nutrients? That's like buying dirt to throw on your floor so the Roomba has something to pick up.

It sounds like you're trying to adapt your system to your filtration instead of adapting your filtration to your system.

 

[MnFish1]

I will go against the grain a little - Bioload is the total of organisms in the tank that produce waste (i.e. its not filtration). Filtration can mitigate waste produced by bioload - but the 2 are independent concepts.

It may sound semantic - but it's not.

Looking at your tank - I would not call it 'overstocked' (unless the tang is huge). The filtration (assuming you're using it according to the usual RedSea protocol is what it is. If your nutrients are 'low' - its. because your bioload is low.

Note that's not 'bad'. You don't mention coral - so you dont need to worry about Nitrate 'bottoming out' or PO4 bottoming out. Unless you're planning to raise coral with a lot of growth - I wouldn't do anything. If you think your tank is overstocked - dont add anything more.

BTW - test kits often dont give at all a sense of the real chemistry in the water.

For example - a tank covered in hair algae - PO4 0 Nitrate 0 ? (with no coral or other things that use PO4/NO3)
A tank clear of algae with lots of SPS healthy but not growing PO4 0 Nitrate 0
A tank with no algae but minimal NO3 and PO4 - but growing Healthy SPS

Coral and algae will grow until the point where the amount of No3/PO4 is used (i.e. resulting in 0 nutrients) - this does not mean that there is never NO3 and PO4 in your tank. But may result in slow/no growth - loss of color in certain coral as others that are more efficient at getting nutrients use them faster.

If you add a bit of Nitrate/Po4 in this case - it results in growth - again - up to the point where steady state is reached - and the nutrients again fall.
All JMO

 

[MnFish1]

Here is a nice description of 'bioload' and 'filtration' that might help:https://fishlab.com/bioload/

 

[Ernie C]

I have a mixed reef with mostly frags of sps and few lps and two large LPS that i've had for like 20 years. I don't have much algae other than bubble algae here and there that I manually remove. Sps shows good color and steady growth, Chaeto also grows steadily and i remove 50% of it every month or two. Pic below, please ignore the giant bazooka UV, temporary for dinos, looking for something more compact for cabinet. lol

 

[MnFish1]

I have a mixed reef with mostly frags of sps and few lps and two large LPS that i've had for like 20 years. I don't have much algae other than bubble algae here and there that I manually remove. Sps shows good color and steady growth, Chaeto also grows steadily and i remove 50% of it every month or two. Pic below, please ignore the giant bazooka UV, temporary for dinos, looking for something more compact for cabinet. lol

Nice tank - I dont consider that overstocked. The Chaeto is probably using up nitrate/PO4 (whatever is left over). If it ain't broke - don't fix it IMHO

 

[brandon429]

we have been seeing lots of posts lately about how titration test kits give wildly varying answers

name the best kit...we can find a post of it being calibrated against another kit reading a large difference

some zeros are tens

some tens are 40's nitrate, how does anyone know their levels of nutrients

 

[MnFish1]

we have been seeing lots of posts lately about how titration test kits give wildly varying answers

name the best kit...we can find a post of it being calibrated against another kit reading a large difference

some zeros are tens

some tens are 40's nitrate, how does anyone know their levels of nutrients

You have to do the tests correctly - and use non-expired reagents...

 

[Dr. Dendrostein]

i have low ph issues so have outside air coming into the skimmer so don't really want to turn it off. I don't have any other reactors or media just some chaeto and rubble in the sump that i have lit over night until the tank lights come on. So far the tank is doing great after dealing with some uglies, but sometimes you want that extra fish and i don't want to push my luck. =)
If i could only catch those pesky damsels. lol

Either your probe or testing is off or if your using dry live rock, or your calcium carbonate material (coral sand,real live rock) is not getting good water currents in tank so water has no good direct contact to bio filtration in live rock/dry rock. Also may not have enough live rock/dry rock , good water movement crucial . The bigger your biological filtration system, the more bacteria,more CO2 means acidic conditions,more bacteria, possibly less ph. Example, I use activated carbon for biological filtration, I plum the discharge out of my bio filter thru limestone gravel. Because the bacteria in the carbon is producing large amounts of CO2. C02 lowers ph, so CO2 makes ocean water acidic, this acid desolves the limestone on the end side of my filtration, this raises my ph. My thinking.

 

[WVNed]

Bioload becomes an issues when the power goes out. When a pump breaks. When something happens.
The closer to the max you are the less time you have to deal with the unexpected.

 

[jsker]

Great answers thus far

On the PH issue, have you looked in to running a line from outside to your skimmer? link or a Co2 scrubber link

One other suggestion is the skimmer may be to small for your system, I found this out after running a low PH for over 2 years. My PH would be at 7.8 ish at the high and down to 7.6 at the low. I just replaced my skimmer a month ago and my PH is up to 8.+. I do have a line to the outside to the skimmer and have had the line to the skimmer for the past 4 years. With the PH running low I did put a Co2 scrubber in the line with the outside air and that helped when my PH was running low.

Note running a PH of 7.8 or even a 7.7 is fine but the growth does slow, especially when the swings go lower at night.

I did not see your parameters, and that would help getting you question solved. As stated above, having good test kits in a plus.

 

[Ernie C]

Great answers thus far

On the PH issue, have you looked in to running a line from outside to your skimmer? link or a Co2 scrubber link

One other suggestion is the skimmer may be to small for your system, I found this out after running a low PH for over 2 years. My PH would be at 7.8 ish at the high and down to 7.6 at the low. I just replaced my skimmer a month ago and my PH is up to 8.+. I do have a line to the outside to the skimmer and have had the line to the skimmer for the past 4 years. With the PH running low I did put a Co2 scrubber in the line with the outside air and that helped when my PH was running low.

Note running a PH of 7.8 or even a 7.7 is fine but the growth does slow, especially when the swings go lower at night.

I did not see your parameters, and that would help getting you question solved. As stated above, having good test kits in a plus.

I have a reef octopus 110 I believe and have tubing bringing in outside air to the skimmer. My ph runs from 7.9 - 8.1 but I dose kalk overnight to maintain alk at 8.5 and cal at 430 so it helps with it dropping below 7.9

 

[MnFish1]

I have a reef octopus 110 I believe and have tubing bringing in outside air to the skimmer. My ph runs from 7.9 - 8.1 but I dose kalk overnight to maintain alk at 8.5 and cal at 430 so it helps with it dropping below 7.9

This is perfectly fine IMHO

 

[Ernie C]

off topic regarding ph, do yo all think an oversized skimmer would help with raising ph if air intake is outside air? I have Reef Octopus 110 Classic. Manufacturer Rates it for tanks up to 100 gallons but BRS recommends it for tanks up to 75 gallons. I have 93 gallon total water volume minus rock volume.

 

[MnFish1]

off topic regarding ph, do yo all think an oversized skimmer would help with raising ph if air intake is outside air? I have Reef Octopus 110 Classic. Manufacturer Rates it for tanks up to 100 gallons but BRS recommends it for tanks up to 75 gallons. I have 93 gallon total water volume minus rock volume.

I would do the larger skimmer - but then again - you dont really have a nutrient problem - and your pH is basically not bad. Do you have good flow in your tank (across the surface) - that might be a way to go as well as trying to provide fresh air to the room in which your tank is