When you've reached your LAST option; pulling the LR out of the tank
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Excellent framing of the issue in my opinion Neil.
a work thread is made by posting something like: 'send me all your gha invasions to tackle' and then we watch that individual work for pages and pages either pulling it off or not.
That is a 100% opposite knowledge angle compared to reading a book, article, or web entry where a pro discusses how to beat GHA and doesn't use live examples. Work threads test noncompliant tanks, and the method, in real time vs isolating the author from ease/no accountability for gha claims.
In my opinion these are basic summaries of how we start and its impact on gha, vs how we could start and how that has impacted GHA in work threads I know of:
common approach:
store detritus in the rocks and sand, don't ever remove it with deep cleaning. deep cleaning is destabilizing. allow all uglies phase, expect it, let your tank fill to the brim that's part of cycling. don't act directly on the rock outside of the tank, it can kill the rock. Your algae is using up all the nutrients that's why your tests aren't working correctly. The only way to kill gha is to strip all the N and P out of the system, algae is a nutrient issue. You are only allowed to kill it with weeks long parameter chasing and indirect needs.
uncommon approach, a thread built on the polar opposite of those lines of thought above:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/reef2reef-pest-algae-challenge-thread-hydrogen-peroxide.187042/ (a work thread)
in order to beat GHA much better in this hobby, we need more people making work threads to see what really, truly works for the masses and writing about that vs just an artist in his/her home. we are using info in this hobby for GHA control that hardly ever works, hence the decades of ongoing gha challenges.
every time I read an article about algae control, Im thinking: 'where's your data from other peoples tanks' and I hardly ever see that data or get to consider it.
*Pulling rock out for out of tank surgery is most everyone's last option, that to me is the best framing of the info we circulate. Its seen as only bad, a last resort, the one action that guarantees you will not have a takeover is the last option we are allowed to use. To me, its proof our rules regarding GHA in the hobby do not come from public works they come from pros who can paint like bob ross given any form of brush.
a work thread is made by posting something like: 'send me all your gha invasions to tackle' and then we watch that individual work for pages and pages either pulling it off or not.
That is a 100% opposite knowledge angle compared to reading a book, article, or web entry where a pro discusses how to beat GHA and doesn't use live examples. Work threads test noncompliant tanks, and the method, in real time vs isolating the author from ease/no accountability for gha claims.
In my opinion these are basic summaries of how we start and its impact on gha, vs how we could start and how that has impacted GHA in work threads I know of:
common approach:
store detritus in the rocks and sand, don't ever remove it with deep cleaning. deep cleaning is destabilizing. allow all uglies phase, expect it, let your tank fill to the brim that's part of cycling. don't act directly on the rock outside of the tank, it can kill the rock. Your algae is using up all the nutrients that's why your tests aren't working correctly. The only way to kill gha is to strip all the N and P out of the system, algae is a nutrient issue. You are only allowed to kill it with weeks long parameter chasing and indirect needs.
uncommon approach, a thread built on the polar opposite of those lines of thought above:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/reef2reef-pest-algae-challenge-thread-hydrogen-peroxide.187042/ (a work thread)
in order to beat GHA much better in this hobby, we need more people making work threads to see what really, truly works for the masses and writing about that vs just an artist in his/her home. we are using info in this hobby for GHA control that hardly ever works, hence the decades of ongoing gha challenges.
every time I read an article about algae control, Im thinking: 'where's your data from other peoples tanks' and I hardly ever see that data or get to consider it.
*Pulling rock out for out of tank surgery is most everyone's last option, that to me is the best framing of the info we circulate. Its seen as only bad, a last resort, the one action that guarantees you will not have a takeover is the last option we are allowed to use. To me, its proof our rules regarding GHA in the hobby do not come from public works they come from pros who can paint like bob ross given any form of brush.
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Bryan68
Well-Known Member
Ouch!Speaking of which, I just found a BIG one on my glass. That’s next to a baby copepod. It’s about 4mm long
This is a funny way to think about GHA but truly I used it to save my own reef from GHA in about 2008:
pretend someone gave you fifty thousand dollars if you merely keep your reef GHA free for one year. Do anything you want; there are no rules other than you must grow corals/positive mass and you can't be caught with one sprig in a picture or you lose your 50 K
I then took my rocks out and stabbed off the algae and burnt the spot before it took over using a blue jet flame lighter. I won the 50K/ in my mind
and the lasting effects to my reef is worth more than 50K, its algae free forever now that I guided it until coralline took over 100% and now excludes algae for me chemically.
it was then illuminated to me that GHA issues are a psychology mindset from the reefer, its not a plant or chemistry thing. its a resolve thing. we do have final say, some take that.
pretend someone gave you fifty thousand dollars if you merely keep your reef GHA free for one year. Do anything you want; there are no rules other than you must grow corals/positive mass and you can't be caught with one sprig in a picture or you lose your 50 K
I then took my rocks out and stabbed off the algae and burnt the spot before it took over using a blue jet flame lighter. I won the 50K/ in my mind
and the lasting effects to my reef is worth more than 50K, its algae free forever now that I guided it until coralline took over 100% and now excludes algae for me chemically.it was then illuminated to me that GHA issues are a psychology mindset from the reefer, its not a plant or chemistry thing. its a resolve thing. we do have final say, some take that.
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I’ve seen your work threads, even participated in some, but kinda got a little heckled when I posted reservations about using other people’s tanks as a testing ground for treatment approaches, or made comments asking about specifics regarding methodology and actual ‘mechanism’. I’m all for trying extreme approaches- I’m considering ripping out 30% of my rocks right now and bleaching them- but feel apprehensive seeing other people being used to test ideas. I get that they assume the risk, and are willing participants, but I’m curious how many times something bad happens and there’s an honest debrief and someone takes accountability. Like, own up and say yeah, maybe we pushed it too hard’ rather than the far more usual “well, did you do *exactly* what we said? You sure?”
It’s like the sandbed debate. I haven’t cleaned my sand in a year. Because it’s 160lbs in an in wall tank, 3” deep in spots, but I feed very light and can see 95% of the food I put in gets eaten. I know I don’t have a nutrient sink, because I need to dose Nitrste PO4 just to detect either. I DO have a Chrysophytes outbreak, due to zero nutrient conditions for 2 months post cycle (completely dry rock, biospira and ammonia dosing, very precise measurements and dosing) . I’ve watched the Chrysophytes receed and be replaced by turf algae, but if I dial back my Nitrate and Po4 dosing, it stops growing. So the dosing I do is having a direct effect on algae growth, so I know my system isn’t leaking any anywhere. So I know nutrients are controlled, never clean my sandbed, but as soon as someone sees the turfalgae they immediately jump to ‘your sand is a nutrient sink’.
I mean, I wish we could get a work thread on Chrysophytes, but it seems so uncommon that I only found like 6 threads in it. None of the approaches worked. But now I’ve allowed turf to come in and inhabit the niche, it can’t get a hold. Now I just need to kill the turf, populate the niche with coralline and maintain good nutrient levels, and keep up with WC and it should be good
Sorry, I digressed majorly. Apologies for hi jacking the thread. I’m a sahd and don’t get regular human interaction, lol
OP
OP
ZoWhat
7500 Club Member
I couldn't care less how GHA looks.... my psychological mindset.... I'm more worried my corals are getting "choked out" when GHA surrounds a colony of zoas/palys... then starts to grow INSIDE the colony.... that's when I start caring about algae in my tank
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Rock pulling is brutish, archaic
I don't know of any better way, as the tank is algae free when the job is completed.
All other ways: arbitrary safe zone completion date, ranges tank to tank.
We separate preventative methods (cuc, param balancing, ATS systems, dosers like vibrant and fluc) from removal methods (direct kill) using this approach
Maybe a blend of top methods is key: surgery first then fluconazole
Use max export first before killing target, less rot in tank and less doser needed. be hands on, totally responsible for creating and leveraging direct access in our systems, this is opposite from past rules
Consider this: comb through the pico reefs at nano-reef.com and see how many have gha, dinos, cyano issues. All of them, uninvaded.
So what makes gha solely a large tanker problem? Aside from obvious gallonage differences, are there any care methods that can be shared? In my opinion, it's some element of direct access that starts to bring results. We are the removers, preventatives come after our job and not before. The right sized reef to own is one that you are willing to access in every way, to take control over your investment if needed. I think we should literally refuse to lose reefs to gha, and document various forms of resolve causing it
I don't know of any better way, as the tank is algae free when the job is completed.
All other ways: arbitrary safe zone completion date, ranges tank to tank.
We separate preventative methods (cuc, param balancing, ATS systems, dosers like vibrant and fluc) from removal methods (direct kill) using this approach
Maybe a blend of top methods is key: surgery first then fluconazole
Use max export first before killing target, less rot in tank and less doser needed. be hands on, totally responsible for creating and leveraging direct access in our systems, this is opposite from past rules
Consider this: comb through the pico reefs at nano-reef.com and see how many have gha, dinos, cyano issues. All of them, uninvaded.
So what makes gha solely a large tanker problem? Aside from obvious gallonage differences, are there any care methods that can be shared? In my opinion, it's some element of direct access that starts to bring results. We are the removers, preventatives come after our job and not before. The right sized reef to own is one that you are willing to access in every way, to take control over your investment if needed. I think we should literally refuse to lose reefs to gha, and document various forms of resolve causing it
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I like that this quickly went towards urchins - my little tuxedo has been just MOWING through algae in my 130. The rocks have never been cleaner, it's crazy how hungry that little guy is. I'll never have a tank again without one or a few urchins.
That said, I've also had to shut down a nano before because I lost the turf war (this was pre urchin enlightenment). Super frustrating, glad the H2O2 is working for you.
I probably did something wrong. I removed live rock one by one and used H2O2 to eliminate GHA. This is months ago, maybe late March or April. It worked....for a while. Gradually I lost all of my SPS and LPS corals. It happened over 4-6 weeks piece by piece. It took me a while to connect the dots. I suspect the H2O2 included some copper somehow, which appeared on an ICP test and which I later removed. The GHA returned, to add insult to injury.
Now, I am GHA-free with wonderful SPS and LPS growth. I think the turning point was competing chaeto against the GHA in a refugium for some months. After a while...a long patient while....the GHA clumps looked dusty and old. They broke off easily in clumps. I spent ~45 minutes one day removing them, and I’ve had the upper hand since.
Lots to consider.
Now, I am GHA-free with wonderful SPS and LPS growth. I think the turning point was competing chaeto against the GHA in a refugium for some months. After a while...a long patient while....the GHA clumps looked dusty and old. They broke off easily in clumps. I spent ~45 minutes one day removing them, and I’ve had the upper hand since.
Lots to consider.
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