Which 2-part?

[Gar802000]

There are lots of 2-part systems on the market, most of which sound nice, except to my wallet!

I’ve been using ATI Essentials Pro for a long time, and am thinking about switching to Reef Zlements z-pHplus for the pH advantages.

The reef Zlements gives 10,000 dKh per litre, and 10L of it costs roughly the same as 10L of ATI Essentials. But, how concentrated is ATI Essentials? Most retail sites advertise 27,300 dKh ‘per set’ of ATI Essentials. But, the 27,300 dKh is quoted regardless of whether you’re buying a 2L set or a 10L set!!

Does anyone know the answer, or have any experience with the Reef Zlements z-pHplus? I don’t want to switch to it and find I need to dose almost three times as much as ATI Essentials to get the same dKh increase. That would make it almost three times as expensive!

 

[Zeal]

I use B-Ionic alk and Calc. Super potent

 

[Sleeping Giant]

I use B-Ionic alk and Calc. Super potent

Does that stuff go bad?

 

[Zeal]

Does that stuff go bad?

Nope not at all. Has trace elements inside of it as well so that's nice.

Also its been around forver

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

There are lots of 2-part systems on the market, most of which sound nice, except to my wallet!

I’ve been using ATI Essentials Pro for a long time, and am thinking about switching to Reef Zlements z-pHplus for the pH advantages.

The reef Zlements gives 10,000 dKh per litre, and 10L of it costs roughly the same as 10L of ATI Essentials. But, how concentrated is ATI Essentials? Most retail sites advertise 27,300 dKh ‘per set’ of ATI Essentials. But, the 27,300 dKh is quoted regardless of whether you’re buying a 2L set or a 10L set!!

Does anyone know the answer, or have any experience with the Reef Zlements z-pHplus? I don’t want to switch to it and find I need to dose almost three times as much as ATI Essentials to get the same dKh increase. That would make it almost three times as expensive!

dKH is not per liter. It is already a per volume measurement, like mg/L.

An alk supplement will have an alkalinity like 3,000 dKH, regardless of the volume at hand.

I do not believe 27,300 dKH is possible with a normal alk supplement.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Nope not at all. Has trace elements inside of it as well so that's nice.

Also its been around forver

Just to be clear, ESV-B-ionic is a great two part (IMO), but IT IS NOT a trace element supplement. It is not designed to offset even the tiniest bit of demand for something like iron or manganese.

Those trace elements are there for a different reason.

Two parts raise salinity by necessarily adding Na+ and Cl-.

If you only used sodium carbonate and calcium chloride, sodium and chloride rise over time, pushing up salinity.

When you maintain the reef tank salinity by replacing some water with RO/DI, everything is lowered again.

If you do not include all elements, from magnesium and potassium all the way down to iron and other trace elements, then all of those will eventually be depressed to undesirable low levels (although water changes help that).

 

[Zeal]

I

Just to be clear, ESV-B-ionic is a great two part (IMO), but IT IS NOT a trace element supplement. It is not designed to offset even the tiniest bit of demand for something like iron or manganese.

Those trace elements are there for a different reason.

Two parts raise salinity by necessarily adding Na+ and Cl-.

If you only used sodium carbonate and calcium chloride, sodium and chloride rise over time, pushing up salinity.

When you maintain the reef tank salinity by replacing some water with RO/DI, everything is lowered again.

If you do not include all elements, from magnesium and potassium all the way down to iron and other trace elements, then all of those will eventually be depressed to undesirable low levels (although water changes help that).

interesting I didn’t know that. So I should dose trace elements + WC?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I've not heard of Reef Zelements before. It may be fine, but I'm not a fan of the misuse of terminology. It does lend any air of confidence that they know what they are doing.

2 Part Dosing System | Reef Zlements

A 2 Part dosing complete system, inorganic and ionically balanced, Z-Complete contains all main Macro, Micro and Trace elements our corals need to thrive.

www.reef-zlements.com

"10.000 dKH per litre"

"> 71.000 ppm of Ca per litre"

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I

interesting I didn’t know that. So I should dose trace elements + WC?

It can be something to experiment with. It may or may not be needed since foods and water changes also add trace elements.

 

[arafas]

I've not heard of Reef Zelements before. It may be fine, but I'm not a fan of the misuse of terminology. It does lend any air of confidence that they know what they are doing.

2 Part Dosing System | Reef Zlements

A 2 Part dosing complete system, inorganic and ionically balanced, Z-Complete contains all main Macro, Micro and Trace elements our corals need to thrive.

www.reef-zlements.com

"10.000 dKH per litre"

"> 71.000 ppm of Ca per litre"

do you believe in the PH claims ??

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

do you believe in the PH claims ??

Which claim?

There are 3 possible alk ingredients in a two part. Bicarbonate has a slight pH lowering effect, carbonate has a strong pH raising effect, and hydroxide has twice the pH boost of carbonate. An alk supplement can be any combination of these, but most are just one of the three.

 

[arafas]

Well they said that the 2 part raises Ph to 8.3.

 

[Coolcasino]

Well they said that the 2 part raises Ph to 8.3.

I believe it all depends on which alk ingredient is used. I still don't think it will maintain PH that high. Nothing really does. Many claim they do but all they do is raise the PH for a bit and then you see it fall again.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Well they said that the 2 part raises Ph to 8.3.

As a general rule, all any company can say is that it raises pH or not, and perhaps give an indication of the degree of effect relative to other alk supplements as I did above.

A claim that a specific pH will be attained is NEVER justified for any reef product.

 

[arafas]

ok, thanks make sense.

 

[LeftyReefer]

There are lots of 2-part systems on the market, most of which sound nice, except to my wallet!

I’ve been using ATI Essentials Pro for a long time, and am thinking about switching to Reef Zlements z-pHplus for the pH advantages.

The reef Zlements gives 10,000 dKh per litre, and 10L of it costs roughly the same as 10L of ATI Essentials. But, how concentrated is ATI Essentials? Most retail sites advertise 27,300 dKh ‘per set’ of ATI Essentials. But, the 27,300 dKh is quoted regardless of whether you’re buying a 2L set or a 10L set!!

Does anyone know the answer, or have any experience with the Reef Zlements z-pHplus? I don’t want to switch to it and find I need to dose almost three times as much as ATI Essentials to get the same dKh increase. That would make it almost three times as expensive!

The figures ATI cites is based on a 10L set, I believe.

So if we divide each of the figures they give by 10 to get a per liter amount, we get:
2,730 dKH per liter for the ALK (#1)
and 19,500 mg of CA per liter (#2)

dKH is not per liter. It is already a per volume measurement, like mg/L.

An alk supplement will have an alkalinity like 3,000 dKH, regardless of the volume at hand.

I do not believe 27,300 dKH is possible with a normal alk supplement.

Which would make the 2,730 dKH sound about right then??

ATI doesn't give much info either. "Because Essentials pro is highly concentrated, as little as 7 ml per day is enough to raise the KH value of 100 liters of aquarium water by 1 ° dKH."

I've been using the ATI essentials pro 2-parts for while too and have yet to find a reefing additive calculator that has these products included, so its just been trial and error using them.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The figures ATI cites is based on a 10L set, I believe.

So if we divide each of the figures they give by 10 to get a per liter amount, we get:
2,730 dKH per liter for the ALK (#1)
and 19,500 mg of CA per liter (#2)




Which would make the 2,730 dKH sound about right then??

ATI doesn't give much info either. "Because Essentials pro is highly concentrated, as little as 7 ml per day is enough to raise the KH value of 100 liters of aquarium water by 1 ° dKH."

I've been using the ATI essentials pro 2-parts for while too and have yet to find a reefing additive calculator that has these products included, so its just been trial and error using them.

it might be right. My diy two part using bicarbonate is 2660 dKH.

 

[Frag_mad]

Well they said that the 2 part raises Ph to 8.3.

Can you show us where it states 8.3ph please. I can’t find that anywhere all I can find is it saying it raises ph

 

[vetteguy53081]

ESV

 

[arafas]

Can you show us where it states 8.3ph please. I can’t find that anywhere all I can find is it saying it raises ph

On reefbuilders webiste they were talking about Ph some guy hitting 8.7 with this product, but actually those numbers 8.3 that I saw somwhere they took off. On the product page says if you have problem below 8.15 then this product is for you.