Who came up with 76-78 temps?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

That's my point yet can't find one reference mentioning anything other than 76-78. No science based support for 76-78.

Here’s a nice summary:

That's my point yet can't find one reference mentioning anything other than 76-78. No science based support for 76-78.

Here’s one:

Ron Shimek's Website...Critters

Dr Ron Shimek's Website - Information on animal groups, husbandry of coral reef aquarium animals, his passion for native Montana orchids, Ron's blog and online articles

web.archive.org

Run shows lots of data, including this summary;

The average temperature calculated for all 1000 + coral reefs was 81.7°F. Over all reefs, the average lowest temperature observed was 76.4°F, and the average highest temperature was 86.4°F.

 

[JustAnotherNanoTank]

What we’re after is stability overall for our tanks. If you like a cooler temp then run it. Higher temps do usually mean higher metabolic rates for growth.

I like 78°F

 

[GARRIGA]

Here’s a nice summary:



Here’s one:

Ron Shimek's Website...Critters

Dr Ron Shimek's Website - Information on animal groups, husbandry of coral reef aquarium animals, his passion for native Montana orchids, Ron's blog and online articles

web.archive.org

Run shows lots of data, including this summary;

The average temperature calculated for all 1000 + coral reefs was 81.7°F. Over all reefs, the average lowest temperature observed was 76.4°F, and the average highest temperature was 86.4°F.

Just to clarify. When I say I've not found any scientific based backing I'm talking about the fact that since the 70s I recall for all types of tank the guidance that it must be 76-78. Which I find odd as it's very restrictive yet applies to all types of tanks from FW plants to chichis to live-bearers to SW fish and inverts. Considering these come from diversified and isolated from each habitats it always seemed odd and now I have a conversation with another who has been at this longer than I have recommending cooler temps for which he made much sense. Just to give background on where this comes from.

Now I find a paper as I provided stating world reefs 73 to 80 something. Fact several have mentioned feeling cooler at depth at these tropical reefs. Not just in my home waters. Most reports based off sea surface temperatures as I believe what you provided unless I misunderstood. Delved deeper into it with links provided and noticed that for below the surface they used drifters that descended and got readings. Honestly, lots of information and some seems conflicting to me. I'm not a scientist therefore might be misunderstanding that I've read meant for those with that learning but at the same time have to entertain the fact that based on what I've read it would appear even 78 too cold.

As for averages. Might make sense in generalities but I don't see value specifically to what I'm discussing. Here's an example, have always been told boas prefer 88 degrees yet base on actual experience that's farthest from the truth. Outside of digesting or gestation, they seek the coolest sections. I provide in winter a hot spot during the day of 85 and heat off at night with temps hovering around 75. Day or night, they seek the coolest section of their cage. Have noticed this with adults and neonates. If I went off book then I'd be forcing my animals to live as I read and not as they evolved. In their natural habitat they are able to seek cooler areas in and around water or underground. They don't just stay where it's 88 although that's the temperature recorded.

 

[VintageReefer]

For home aquaria. Without spending a fortune. What is the scientifically most accurate type of thermometer I can order on Amazon for saltwater. A old school mercury stick thermometer that floats? A digital one with a remote sensor probe? A digital immersion based handheld device? IR thermo gun? Something else ?

What will give me a quick and truly accurate temperature so I can quickly test multiple tanks without having to wait 10+ min for a reading.

@Randy Holmes-Farley @BeanAnimal

 

[BeanAnimal]

I think anything NIST certified would be more than adequate

If you want speed, then an RTD based one. Hand held with a probe is likely the easiest to find.

Infra-red are not idea due to the need to have them calibrated to the source they are reading (black body) and can be finicky as environment changes.

Randy working with lab equipment daily may have better ideas.

 

[BeanAnimal]

What we’re after is stability overall for our tanks. If you like a cooler temp then run it. Higher temps do usually mean higher metabolic rates for growth.

I like 78°F

I am not convinced of the need for temperature stability. My reef ran without a heater for over a decade and swing wildly based on room temperature depending on the season and heat/ac status etc.

Range was ~73 - 82

I think there is an argument to be made for things adapting to be a bit hardier that grow in the fluctuating environment, but I could be wrong.

 

[VintageReefer]

Can’t read the description but NIST is mentioned / shown in the pictures. Made by some science equipment company. I’m not in the industry so I don’t know how reputable they are. Seems legit.

Safe to say this is more accurate than the sensors / probes in heaters, controllers, IR Gun, etc?

So if I had this, could I trust this over other products and calibrate / adjust around what this reads?

Amazon.com

@Randy Holmes-Farley @BeanAnimal

Includes a certificate

 

[JustAnotherNanoTank]

I am not convinced of the need for temperature stability. My reef ran without a heater for over a decade and swing wildly based on room temperature depending on the season and heat/ac status etc.

Range was ~73 - 82

I think there is an argument to be made for things adapting to be a bit hardier that grow in the fluctuating environment, but I could be wrong.

Can I see a picture of the tank that would swing wildly? I’m just interested in the whole setup and what was in it.

 

[GARRIGA]

I am not convinced of the need for temperature stability. My reef ran without a heater for over a decade and swing wildly based on room temperature depending on the season and heat/ac status etc.

Range was ~73 - 82

I think there is an argument to be made for things adapting to be a bit hardier that grow in the fluctuating environment, but I could be wrong.

Range 73-82 where I'm at with this discussion because I doubt nature is stable as I've mentioned before. Life unable to adapt ceases to exist. Within reason. Wouldn't be having coral bleaching were they that adaptable yet some have and perhaps those will persist. Earth has been changing since it's birth and doubt it will ever come to a stable state. Life evolves.

 

[BeanAnimal]

You need to look at accuracy specs. I think those lollipops are +- 0.75F or something.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Can I see a picture of the tank that would swing wildly? I’m just interested in the whole setup and what was in it.

I don’t have tank photos. At the time it was a heavily stocked and crowded mixed reef.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Just to clarify. When I say I've not found any scientific based backing I'm talking about the fact that since the 70s I recall for all types of tank the guidance that it must be 76-78. Which I find odd as it's very restrictive yet applies to all types of tanks from FW plants to chichis to live-bearers to SW fish and inverts. Considering these come from diversified and isolated from each habitats it always seemed odd and now I have a conversation with another who has been at this longer than I have recommending cooler temps for which he made much sense. Just to give background on where this comes from.

Now I find a paper as I provided stating world reefs 73 to 80 something. Fact several have mentioned feeling cooler at depth at these tropical reefs. Not just in my home waters. Most reports based off sea surface temperatures as I believe what you provided unless I misunderstood. Delved deeper into it with links provided and noticed that for below the surface they used drifters that descended and got readings. Honestly, lots of information and some seems conflicting to me. I'm not a scientist therefore might be misunderstanding that I've read meant for those with that learning but at the same time have to entertain the fact that based on what I've read it would appear even 78 too cold.

As for averages. Might make sense in generalities but I don't see value specifically to what I'm discussing. Here's an example, have always been told boas prefer 88 degrees yet base on actual experience that's farthest from the truth. Outside of digesting or gestation, they seek the coolest sections. I provide in winter a hot spot during the day of 85 and heat off at night with temps hovering around 75. Day or night, they seek the coolest section of their cage. Have noticed this with adults and neonates. If I went off book then I'd be forcing my animals to live as I read and not as they evolved. In their natural habitat they are able to seek cooler areas in and around water or underground. They don't just stay where it's 88 although that's the temperature recorded.

Ron specifically advised a higher temp in the article I posted, when keeping organisms from the Indopacific.

I too have recommended higher temps for a very long time. In this article from 2004, I recommended 76-83, which I still believe is a good range.

https://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/index.php

 

[Kmst80]

All depends on the type of coral. Here in Australia the great barrier reef stretches from tropics to subtropics. But you will find corals as far south as Sydney, much colder Waters there where the corals from the more northern points would not survive but other corals adapted to the cooler temps. Here in Brisbane I got told when you go out in low tide you walk on goniopras while you hear the clicking sound of pistol shrimps , not the colorfull ones everyone wants though.

 

[GARRIGA]

All depends on the type of coral. Here in Australia the great barrier reef stretches from tropics to subtropics. But you will find corals as far south as Sydney, much colder Waters there where the corals from the more northern points would not survive but other corals adapted to the cooler temps. Here in Brisbane I got told when you go out in low tide you walk on goniopras while you hear the clicking sound of pistol shrimps , not the colorfull ones everyone wants though.

Visiting the Great Barrier reef on my bucket list. Should have gone 20 years ago however. Same with Hawaii.

 

[Justfebreezeit]

I dive palm beach county all the time. Anywhere from 45 ft in alot of the inside ledges around the palm beach area and over 80 in jupiter.

The 45ft ledges are often only a few degrees cooler than surface temps. 65ft outside ledges maybe an extra degree cooler.

However there are quite a few cold water upwelling events every year where the water will be 82 on the surface and 65ish on the reef for a week at a time.

 

[GARRIGA]

I dive palm beach county all the time. Anywhere from 45 ft in alot of the inside ledges around the palm beach area and over 80 in jupiter.

The 45ft ledges are often only a few degrees cooler than surface temps. 65ft outside ledges maybe an extra degree cooler.

However there are quite a few cold water upwelling events every year where the water will be 82 on the surface and 65ish on the reef for a week at a time.

Plus where you dive closest the gulf stream runs by. Guessing your temps warmer than Miami Beach or the Keys.

 

[MnFish1]

Why I'm curious because based on what I was told and the source seems very credible to me then we could eliminate one of the biggest concerns we have being heaters failing. Increased oxygen levels. Cushion should power go out and room temps rise as it would take longer before tank reaches critical levels.

Except that I'm not sure it's a good idea to have such temperature variation daily

 

[MnFish1]

I would assume part of it came from the fact that a lot of marine critters grow faster under higher temps, part of it came from surface water temperatures, and part of it came from some critters not doing well/suffering physical damage long-term at lower temps - such as clownfish, for example:

And a lot of fry tend to travel around near the surface?

 

[GARRIGA]

Except that I'm not sure it's a good idea to have such temperature variation daily

My best guess on an actual reef there’s likely a gradual drop at night daily. Regardless of exact temperature. Evenings are cooler and surrounding air likely has an impact on ocean waters plus the daily rain in the tropics should have an affect. Might not. I’m just thinking based on my experiences here in south Florida which is a far cry from the equator yet south of Fort Lauderdale it is the sub tropics and we do have the third largest reef in the world. Trying to be logical although might be way off too.

 

[MnFish1]

My best guess on an actual reef there’s likely a gradual drop at night daily. Regardless of exact temperature. Evenings are cooler and surrounding air likely has an impact on ocean waters plus the daily rain in the tropics should have an affect. Might not. I’m just thinking based on my experiences here in south Florida which is a far cry from the equator yet south of Fort Lauderdale it is the sub tropics and we do have the third largest reef in the world. Trying to be logical although might be way off too.

I think its an interesting thought - and yes - I agree about 'drops' in the natural reef