andys
Well-Known Member
Hi NeptuneGarden. sounds like you know the UV stuff. what would you recommend for 130 Gal of water volume ?
Who uses UV?!
- Thread starter rbraunberger
- Start date
- Tagged users None
NeptuneGarden
Active Member
a good 40W, or 50w HO if you want to take it up a notch, but cost almost doubles.
UV aint cheap to do right
you guys should check out some of the monster UV's on Lim's sight used on Koi ponds
Another biggie. Make sure you can get to the unit easily.
The inner crystal sleeve needs to be cleaned regularly (every 90 days is best) and the bulb replaced every 6-12 months for maximum efficiency
This means either being able to easily remove the whole unit without making a mess or enough space above it to slide the bulb or sleeve out......2.5x UV length
Last edited:
OP
OP
Thanks for the info. The RS Teefer 525 is only about 135 gallons total not 525 gallons. You think 25 or 30 watts for that size? And I also googled the diseases and I think I'm getting hit with marine velvet not ich. Feel like I'm moving fish hospital and DT back and forth lately on my Reefer 170
NeptuneGarden
Active Member
Ah, yeah a 130-150gal tank could get buy with a 25w for light/regular duty, 40w for good solid performance even with an end of life bulb, and a 50w HO for over the top kill power.
1-2x tank turn over or 130-260gph should be good
You want to slow the flow down. Maximize dwell time and turn over the tank volume 1-2x per hour. Slower the better. It's all about exposure rates. As long as your exposure rate is high enough you don't have to worry about cycling the entire tank through 10x per hour.
1-2x tank turn over or 130-260gph should be good
You want to slow the flow down. Maximize dwell time and turn over the tank volume 1-2x per hour. Slower the better. It's all about exposure rates. As long as your exposure rate is high enough you don't have to worry about cycling the entire tank through 10x per hour.
Here is a useful study by the University of Florida that sums it up pretty well for saltwater ich.
https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fa164
The UV dosage is actually an extrapolated number based off the recommended UV dose for freshwater ich, so they consider the number for saltwater ich very anecdotal, but it at least gives us a range to aim for. Here's there exact statement:
"Use of ultraviolet (UV) sterilization to kill theronts has been suggested, based on research involving Ichthyophthirius multifiliis (freshwater "ich"). The recommended UV dose for Ichthyophthirius theronts is 100,000 µWsec/cm2 (Hoffman 1974). However, UV doses required forCryptocaryon irritans are anecdotal or extrapolated, and range from 280,000 µWsec/cm2 (industry numbers) to 800,000 µWsec/cm2(Colorni and Burgess 1997)."
I based mine off a very similar chart that NeptuneGarden supplied and on that one, I believe it was 336,000 µWsec/cm2, but same difference to me.
You'll ideally want at least 3x turnover for your total water volume as well. Your Red Sea Reefer has a total water volume of about 140 gallons, so you'll want a unit rate for at least 420 gallons. For instance, AquaUV has an 80-watt unit that is rated for 600 gallons so that'll give you your 3x turnover. The GPH recommended for 90,000 µWsec/cm2 for that model is 1,226 GPH.
That works for their recommended 90,000 µWsec/cm2, but now you have to calculate for the 336,000 µWsec/cm2 (or 280,000 µWsec/cm2 listed above). You just basically divide the flowrate recommended by the manufacturer to the same ratio as the exposure ratio recommended by the manufacturer to the extrapolated saltwater exposure (336,000 or 280,000 µWsec/cm2), which is 3.7 and 3.1, respectively.
336,000 µWsec/cm2 ÷ 90,000 µWsec/cm2 = 3.1
280,000 µWsec/cm2 ÷ 90,000 µWsec/cm2 = 3.7
To get the flowrate, you simply divide the recommended manufacturer flowrate for that model, for this one, the 80-watt model which recommends 1,226 GPH.
80-watt AquaUV sterlizer
1,226 GPH ÷ 3.1 = 395 GPH for 280,000 µWsec/cm2 exposure level to kill saltwater ich
1,226 GPH ÷ 3.7 = 331 GPH for 336,000 µWsec/cm2 exposure level to kill saltwater ich
So if buying the AquaUV sterilizer, you'll need to run 331 GPH on the 80-watt model to effectively achieve Level 2 sterilization with a targeted exposure of 336,000 µWsec/cm2. This will also give you your minumum 3x turnover per hour of water volume through the unit.
You can do the same calculations for the other trusted brand of UV sterilizers, the EmperorUV brand, which is now Pentair as they bought them out. I believe their recommended level is 180,000 µWsec/cm2 exposure to kill ich so your division will only have to be about 1.9 to achieve 336,000 µWsec/cm2.
https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fa164
The UV dosage is actually an extrapolated number based off the recommended UV dose for freshwater ich, so they consider the number for saltwater ich very anecdotal, but it at least gives us a range to aim for. Here's there exact statement:
"Use of ultraviolet (UV) sterilization to kill theronts has been suggested, based on research involving Ichthyophthirius multifiliis (freshwater "ich"). The recommended UV dose for Ichthyophthirius theronts is 100,000 µWsec/cm2 (Hoffman 1974). However, UV doses required forCryptocaryon irritans are anecdotal or extrapolated, and range from 280,000 µWsec/cm2 (industry numbers) to 800,000 µWsec/cm2(Colorni and Burgess 1997)."
I based mine off a very similar chart that NeptuneGarden supplied and on that one, I believe it was 336,000 µWsec/cm2, but same difference to me.
You'll ideally want at least 3x turnover for your total water volume as well. Your Red Sea Reefer has a total water volume of about 140 gallons, so you'll want a unit rate for at least 420 gallons. For instance, AquaUV has an 80-watt unit that is rated for 600 gallons so that'll give you your 3x turnover. The GPH recommended for 90,000 µWsec/cm2 for that model is 1,226 GPH.
That works for their recommended 90,000 µWsec/cm2, but now you have to calculate for the 336,000 µWsec/cm2 (or 280,000 µWsec/cm2 listed above). You just basically divide the flowrate recommended by the manufacturer to the same ratio as the exposure ratio recommended by the manufacturer to the extrapolated saltwater exposure (336,000 or 280,000 µWsec/cm2), which is 3.7 and 3.1, respectively.
336,000 µWsec/cm2 ÷ 90,000 µWsec/cm2 = 3.1
280,000 µWsec/cm2 ÷ 90,000 µWsec/cm2 = 3.7
To get the flowrate, you simply divide the recommended manufacturer flowrate for that model, for this one, the 80-watt model which recommends 1,226 GPH.
80-watt AquaUV sterlizer
1,226 GPH ÷ 3.1 = 395 GPH for 280,000 µWsec/cm2 exposure level to kill saltwater ich
1,226 GPH ÷ 3.7 = 331 GPH for 336,000 µWsec/cm2 exposure level to kill saltwater ich
So if buying the AquaUV sterilizer, you'll need to run 331 GPH on the 80-watt model to effectively achieve Level 2 sterilization with a targeted exposure of 336,000 µWsec/cm2. This will also give you your minumum 3x turnover per hour of water volume through the unit.
You can do the same calculations for the other trusted brand of UV sterilizers, the EmperorUV brand, which is now Pentair as they bought them out. I believe their recommended level is 180,000 µWsec/cm2 exposure to kill ich so your division will only have to be about 1.9 to achieve 336,000 µWsec/cm2.
FWIW, Neptune Gardens seems to know their stuff just from their posts. I would rely on their expertise. I'm just a science nerd, environmental scientist of 10 years, that dabbles with saltwater tanks.
Also, I sold my 57-watt AquaUV unit, which was a solid unit, and bought a TMC 110-watt unit for my 250 total water volume. The 57-watt didn't give me the 3x turnover I wanted and I bought that unit 2nd hand before doing good research on it.
I'm not out to recommend the TMC unit just yet as I want to give it a good run first but build quality seems solid for the most part and bulb replacement is cheaper than AquaUV. For the price, it was one of the cheaper options to max out on my exposure ratio without getting me into the thousands of dollars, which is why I went with it. Similar to the W.Lim units, they are mainly made for freshwater ponds but it looks like the W.Lim units are more solidly constructed to me as they almost exactly resemble the AquaUV units.
Also, I sold my 57-watt AquaUV unit, which was a solid unit, and bought a TMC 110-watt unit for my 250 total water volume. The 57-watt didn't give me the 3x turnover I wanted and I bought that unit 2nd hand before doing good research on it.
I'm not out to recommend the TMC unit just yet as I want to give it a good run first but build quality seems solid for the most part and bulb replacement is cheaper than AquaUV. For the price, it was one of the cheaper options to max out on my exposure ratio without getting me into the thousands of dollars, which is why I went with it. Similar to the W.Lim units, they are mainly made for freshwater ponds but it looks like the W.Lim units are more solidly constructed to me as they almost exactly resemble the AquaUV units.
Mark3
Active Member
Thanks for the info here, I am running the emperor 40w 24/7 .... I don't think I have it set up right. I have a 3/4 inch, full siphon line running to it. Anyone know what the flow of that would be? My tank is 125gal with 40gal sump for a total water volume about 130 to 150.
I'm thinking 3/4 siphon is to much flow?
Can someone help me with the math on this?
I was told that I wanted to aim at 1400 gph or less....?
I'm thinking 3/4 siphon is to much flow?
Can someone help me with the math on this?
I was told that I wanted to aim at 1400 gph or less....?
OP
OP
I think I am leaning towards the 58 W high output W Lim too! I have an extra return pump that I have around in case my Vectra goes out on me. It is an eheim 3000+. This should be a good setup if I run it independent of the return. I was thinking pulling water from the sow flow box of the sump and return the clean water right in front of the return pump. Any suggestions?
Mark3
Active Member
I just tried to google flow rate for 3/4" full water siphon drain....
OK..looks like 3/4 " gravity feed is 660 gph ...So now my question is, is this a good flow rate to have on this emperor 40w uv unit?
And is gravity feed the same flow rate as siphon feed?
OK math guys, ... help me out here
OK..looks like 3/4 " gravity feed is 660 gph ...So now my question is, is this a good flow rate to have on this emperor 40w uv unit?
And is gravity feed the same flow rate as siphon feed?
OK math guys, ... help me out here
Last edited:
Emperor literature states 157 GPH for 180,000 µWsec/cm2 exposure to kill ich for the 40-watt model. According to the research above for an extrapolated exposure for ich at 336,000, you'd need to run a flow of about 84 GPH. While that is slow enough to irradiate ich, it won't be fast enough to give you a true 3x turnover per hour as recommended. So basically you'll kill all the ich that runs through it but not enough water will cycle through your tank per hour to make it effective as you will need.
For the flow rate, no online source is needed. Just get a known volume bucket, such as a 5-gal bucket from Home Depot, and take the eflluent of the UV sterlizer and let it flow into the bucket. Then time how long it takes to fill up a certain volume, like the entire bucket or half the bucket. Then just plug it into an online calculator to get your volume/time of say 3 gallons in 10 secs converted to GPH.
I know you have the limitations of your Red Sea reefer but I found putting my UV in my sump highly inefficient. It only killed what ich made it over the overflow, which to my estimation was probably not much. It is my opinion that if run in this setup, you're really just spending a lot of money to just run your UV as a clarifier, killing algae and waterborne bacteria and nothing else. I found no difference of ich reduction in population with this configuration. I know it's not the news you want to hear but I just wanted to pass along my experience with it personally. YMMV.
And I just noticed I screwed up on a calculation for the 3x turnover in my original post. You base the 3x turnover not on the recommended manufacturer listed, such as 600 gals for the 80-watt AquaUV unit. You base it on your final calculated GPH for 336,000 µWsec/cm2 exposure level. In the example, I calculated that as 331 GPH for a 140 gallon tank. The 3x turnover should at least 420 gallons, compared to the final calculater 331 GPH, the 80-watt unit is actually undersized sadly, by about 89 GPH. The 3 turnover isn't a hard rule but one to try to aim for. Your budget and your desired application will help you decide what you want to try to achieve.
Last edited:
OP
OP
I wow. Thanks for the info. That would make the 58 W unit too small
Swingline77
Active Member
Adding a UV sterilizer sounds great, but I have one concern. It's my understanding that in order for a UV bulb to be powerful enough to accomplish anything, it's going to produce ozone. I wonder if this would cause issues.
The general consensus is that ozone lasts from 20-30 min in "clean" water, and for considerably less time in water with a higher DOC burden:
https://www.delozone.com/files/ozone-overview-drinkingh2o-1999.pdf
The general consensus is that ozone lasts from 20-30 min in "clean" water, and for considerably less time in water with a higher DOC burden:
https://www.delozone.com/files/ozone-overview-drinkingh2o-1999.pdf
Last edited:
Similar threads
New Posts
-
Thinking of doing Clownfish harem and anemone tank- Latest: MikeIkerson
-
-
-
