Why are we chasing Nitrates and Phosphates? - The BRS/WWC System Ep9 | BRStv

[Ryanbrs]

Just as a scientific heads up. DNA doesn't create amino acids .

Yeah I understand that answer would fail my biology exam My primary goal is to present the information in a manor which is consumable and helpful to the average reefer but doing that does sometimes mean being realistic with how much we can learn in 30 minutes : ) All this is really the result of a biology degree.

So that said, one of the points I was trying to share was nitrate and phosphate are not the only important "nutrients" in the tank and we should think bigger than that when the net goal of all this is to assemble living coral tissue. Getting the complete picture as a hobbyist might not be realistic but we can constantly work towards an evolving knowledge set

Google searches almost always come up with overly scientific explanations but I found this one helpful for a basic but better understanding.

"The DNA is ultimately the code for the sequence of amino acids in a polypeptide chain, which forms a protein. Each grouping of three DNA nucleotide bases is a code for a specific amino acid. Scientists know which amino acid each DNA sequence codes for; this is called the genetic code. For example, the DNA nucleotide base sequence CTG codes for the amino acid leucine."

Open and honest It would be awesome if the Marine biologists of the world chimed in and even further expanded all of our knowledge sets on this topic and how it applies specifically to corals. A forum like R2R is a perfect place for that evolution of the conversation!

 

[xiaoxiy]

"The DNA is ultimately the code for the sequence of amino acids in a polypeptide chain, which forms a protein. Each grouping of three DNA nucleotide bases is a code for a specific amino acid. Scientists know which amino acid each DNA sequence codes for; this is called the genetic code. For example, the DNA nucleotide base sequence CTG codes for the amino acid leucine."

To expand on this for those reefers who are curious:

Each set of 3 DNA nucleotide bases "code" for the arrangement of specific amino acids. This DNA is transcribed by RNA Polymerase (a protein) into mRNA. This mRNA is subsequently used by Ribosomes (another protein) as a blueprint to create proteins. Each set of 3 RNAs tell the Ribosome which amino acids to incorporate into the protein.

For example. A DNA sequence of CTGCTGCTGCTG is eventually used downstream by ribosomes (after transcription into mRNA) to create a protein with the following amino acids: leucine-leucine-leucine-leucine. In other words, the MRNA from the CTG nucleotide sequence is read by ribosomes to incorporate the amino acid leucine into a protein. The CTG sequence doesn't synthesize leucine. It acts as a blue print for when proteins are synthesized.

I think a better explanation of the relationship between DNA and Amino acids is that DNA is the blueprint that tells cells how to arrange amino acids. These Amino acids sequences are then used create proteins.

 

[Nano sapiens]

Points for trying to tackle this one...

1. I agree that attempting to determine a 'perfect' N to P ratio is unrealistic and that eventually we could come up with an acceptable ratio 'range' as a guideline for our reef systems. Could be quite a range, though, due to the corals' ability to adapt to, and thrive in, varying conditions.

2. Providing a range for phosphate is understandable, but is really only a part of the total phosphate since we can only measure inorganic phosphate (aka 'orthophosphate') with our test kits. Any tank that is fed regularly will have an organic phosphate pool available and what that inorganic/organic ratio is at any given point in time can be determined with a Triton ICP-OES test. The presence of organic phosphate is one of the main reasons why a reef aquarium with consistent test results of '0' for inorganic phosphate can provide good conditions for coral health and growth.

2. Reliable DOC testing should be of interest and it will be interesting to see what Triton releases. From what I've read it's not all that easy to measure accurately, but even a ball-park figure could be helpful (especially those with odd tank issues). Ken Feldman had a number of very interesting articles on the subject in Advanced Aquarist and the contrast in TOC levels (DOC being a large subset of TOC) between 'unfiltered' and 'skimmed/carbon filtered' aquaria was quite striking (typical 'Berlin' type systems had DOC similar to natural reefs, systems with more 'advanced' filtration had levels lower than natural reefs, as would be expected, and 'unfiltered' tanks had much higher than natural TOC). Interestingly, the corals in all sampled systems were healthy and growing, so this strongly suggests that the corals had adapted to their respective environments.

https://www.advancedaquarist.com/2008/9/aafeature2

Ralph.

 

[Nano sapiens]

^^ unable to edit my post above...

Should say: "I agree that attempting to determine a 'perfect' C to N to P ratio is unrealistic..."

 

[Reefpuck]

Who voted for more than 100? I'd like to see their tanks!

 

[andika]

Points for trying to tackle this one...

1. I agree that attempting to determine a 'perfect' N to P ratio is unrealistic and that eventually we could come up with an acceptable ratio 'range' as a guideline for our reef systems. Could be quite a range, though, due to the corals' ability to adapt to, and thrive in, varying conditions.

2. Providing a range for phosphate is understandable, but is really only a part of the total phosphate since we can only measure inorganic phosphate (aka 'orthophosphate') with our test kits. Any tank that is fed regularly will have an organic phosphate pool available and what that inorganic/organic ratio is at any given point in time can be determined with a Triton ICP-OES test. The presence of organic phosphate is one of the main reasons why a reef aquarium with consistent test results of '0' for inorganic phosphate can provide good conditions for coral health and growth.

2. Reliable DOC testing should be of interest and it will be interesting to see what Triton releases. From what I've read it's not all that easy to measure accurately, but even a ball-park figure could be helpful (especially those with odd tank issues). Ken Feldman had a number of very interesting articles on the subject in Advanced Aquarist and the contrast in TOC levels (DOC being a large subset of TOC) between 'unfiltered' and 'skimmed/carbon filtered' aquaria was quite striking (typical 'Berlin' type systems had DOC similar to natural reefs, systems with more 'advanced' filtration had levels lower than natural reefs, as would be expected, and 'unfiltered' tanks had much higher than natural TOC). Interestingly, the corals in all sampled systems were healthy and growing, so this strongly suggests that the corals had adapted to their respective environments.

https://www.advancedaquarist.com/2008/9/aafeature2

Ralph.

point number 2 explain something for me, i have po4 0 with salifert test kit , and i check with hanna phosphorus ULR , its said 3 ppb .
but my tank seems just fine.
i feed everyday my corals , since i have light bioload ,nitrate around 1-5 , po4 0-3 ppb.

when i try raise the po4 with direct dosing pottasium phosphate, cyano bloom happend.

 

[Neptune 555]

Who voted for more than 100? I'd like to see their tanks!

Hi Reefpuck, (and @Ryanbrs) Yes my tank is running at over 100 nitrate actually 180 but I just started a recovery plan. As part of my research I found this video and tons of articles on the topic.

I can't find any casualties to my 180 Nitrate tank running this way for 2 years. My goal is not 180 but I am confortable at 40 - 60. I am not trying to grow sps I actually prefer softies and LPS. In fact I have a sand sifting sea star for a few years now? The only casualty I have had in the last 5 years is a sea urchin who was 5 years in my tank when he passed. I thought I lost a YWG but found him in my sump earlier this year when I did a sump clean out - he had been in the sump for 4 years!

I am actually surprised to learn that we have no hard evidence that tanks thrive more with the ideal of 25 nitrate or lower? Maybe for SPS but then again I think Paul B would say our tanks to clean and we are to obsessed with the numbers. I feed following Paul B recommendations and assume that causes the high nitrates but my fish are super fat and healthy.

I am debating nopox dosing...? I do think I am on the edge of a tank crash at 180 but now at 100 from water changes feel better... but all signs look good and my sump is growing chaeto.