Why can’t I keep/grow coral? What am I doing wrong?

[newyorkmets15]

I need help from the community before I start ripping out my hair. This is my first reef tank and I’ve struggled with trying to keep corals alive and the ones that do stay alive don’t get any growth. I have tried many things to improve conditions and water quality for my corals and I’m at the point where I’m questioning everything. Major concern here is that I’ve had these problems since day one no matter what I try to do to stabilize the environment. There must be something I’m missing that I’ve been doing/not doing since day one

Tank:
-40 gallon breeder with 29 gallon sump
Started Sept 1 2022 with 60 pounds of dry rock and 40 pounds of live sand
-BRS 300lb titanium heater with InkBird controller
- Sicce Syncra silent 3.0 (3rd lowest setting)
- 2 Current USA eflux 1050 wave pump (20% with 3 second frequency, 10% with 7 second frequency)
- 2 AI PRIME 16Hd (light schedule will be shown in pictures)
-monitor pH and temp with apex jr
-monitor alk cal and mag with trident
- i run both carbon and GFO In media bags
- Both saltwater and freshwater for top off come from LFS

History:
-Started using GFO to reduce nutrients to the tank
-Changed lights from current usa ic pro 36-48” to 2 ai primes
-added CO2 scrubber to increase pH
-have tried spot and broadcast feeding (contingent on phosphate and nitrate readings) using many different types of foods
-just added tunze nano ato to attempt to stabilize salinity yesterday

Corals and casualties:
-Can’t keep acans alive. They last a few weeks
-gonis will not open up ever but alive
-hammers start open and extended then slowly shrink and retract and always seem to succumb to Polyp bailout
-frogspawn was open and looked happy and then polyp bailout
-Alveopora are always open and extended but no growth
-zoas always open and extended but no growth
-gsp always open and extended but no growth
-torches at the moment are my only thing that’s happy but 2 days ago I had one die on me over the course of 24ish hours slowly die starting on one side and moving across until there was nothing left
-button scoly seems happy as can be. Don’t see any issues there

Things in question:
-Lighting too strong or too weak
-flow too strong or too weak
-temp swings (considering switching from -300 w heater to 100 w heater to address drastic changes in temp) will show daily temperature fluctuations in pictures
-in an attempt to reduce salinity changes from adding a days worth of top off water at once I added the ATO
-Toxins that continue to get into the water (I’m sending out at icp test to find out) I have a metal mesh lid on the tank and I am concerned about rust

Parameters/pictures:

I do not have a salinity probe but I check every 2-3 days using the Hanna salinity checker. Reading is usually between 33.5-34.5 ppm but I can’t see fluctuations within that. Hopefully top off will stabilize it. All other parameters will be shown in pictures

Any information I forgot to include, I will add it if requested. To all who take the time to help me solve this problem, I thank you in advance!

 

[bradreef]

I think the phose swings and getting close to zero. Ide remove gfo at this point.

 

[dwest]

I would remove the metal mesh lid ASAP. I would remove, GFO as well and do weekly 10% water changes.

 

[dwest]

I also have no idea if the lighting is too strong or too week. I would try to measure PAR somehow.

 

[newyorkmets15]

I would remove the metal mesh lid ASAP. I would remove, GFO as well and do weekly 10% water changes.

Ok so I’m not crazy about the lid and I should have mentioned I do my 10% weekly water changes. Out of curiosity and search for knowledge, what you leads to suggest removing GFO

 

[newyorkmets15]

I also have no idea if the lighting is too strong or too week. I would try to measure PAR somehow.

BRS has a video showing the par readings for 2 ai primes over a 40 gallon breeder and I followed that and then scaled down about 25% intensity and reduced whites some for visual taste. But I have no idea either. Casualties don’t seem to discriminate based on coral placement

 

[dwest]

Ok so I’m not crazy about the lid and I should have mentioned I do my 10% weekly water changes. Out of curiosity and search for knowledge, what you leads to suggest removing GFO

Your phosphates numbers are not too high. Plus, and more importantly, GFO has caused lots of reefers trouble (probably stripping or highly fluctuating available phosphates) and I think it’s important to remove that as a possibility. You might be OK using it, especially in a bag, but I wouldn’t.

As far as the lid goes, you can make a plastic mesh lid DIY. I’m sure you can Google that one. I think BRS did a video as well.

 

[newyorkmets15]

I would remove the metal mesh lid ASAP. I would remove, GFO as well and do weekly 10% water changes.

The concern with the metal lid is rust getting in the water correct? Any ideas on what to replace it with? I have a suicidal Diamond goby lol

 

[dwest]

Yes, rust is the concern. You absolutely need a lid with that goby.

 

[newyorkmets15]

Your phosphates numbers are not too high. Plus, and more importantly, GFO has caused lots of reefers trouble (probably stripping or highly fluctuating available phosphates) and I think it’s important to remove that as a possibility. You might be OK using it, especially in a bag, but I wouldn’t.

As far as the lid goes, you can make a plastic mesh lid DIY. I’m sure you can Google that one. I think BRS did a video as well.

Any ideas what to look for on the ICP test that would point to the metal lid attributing to loss of corals? I really appreciate you taking the time and also for sending me the video of diy lid

 

[newyorkmets15]

Any ideas what to look for on the ICP test that would point to the metal lid attributing to loss of corals? I really appreciate you taking the time and also for sending me the video of diy lid

Also, is the metal Frame shown in brs video of no concern?

 

[dwest]

Any ideas what to look for on the ICP test that would point to the metal lid attributing to loss of corals? I really appreciate you taking the time and also for sending me the video of diy lid

Probably high Fe. But unsure really. Post your numbers when you get them and tag Randy Holmes Farley.

I really do think this is solvable. Water changes, time, and a little real live rock would be good too. Even just a bit of rubble if you can find some. I’d feed the fish well but not add other stuff.

I might also replace the GFO bag with a bag of cuprisorb. Especially if you are pretty sure rust has been falling into the tank.

The frame with BRS is aluminum and not really a concern.

 

[workhz]

Rule #1 in reef keeping. Start with less hair or no hair. Just bypass the pulling hair out phase.

How do you get a 0.15 down to almost zero swing on phosphate?

Also, tank isn’t super mature plus temp and phosphate swings probably not great. Along with salinity swings but looks like you have an ATO now?

Tank pic?

 

[ccole]

Are you able to keep fish and other inverts (anemones/snails/shrimp etc) without issue?

I do think you’re lowering your phosphates too much at one time. I think using GFO is okay, but dropping it to almost 0 is not a good idea.

 

[newyorkmets15]

Probably high Fe. But unsure really. Post your numbers when you get them and tag Randy Holmes Farley.

I really do think this is solvable. Water changes, time, and a little real live rock would be good too. Even just a bit of rubble if you can find some. I’d feed the fish well but not add other stuff.

I might also replace the GFO bag with a bag of cuprisorb. Especially if you are pretty sure rust has been falling into the tank.

The frame with BRS is aluminum and not really a concern.

Awesome! Thanks again for the continued advice

 

[newyorkmets15]

Rule #1 in reef keeping. Start with less hair or no hair. Just bypass the pulling hair out phase.

How do you get a 0.15 down to almost zero swing on phosphate?

Also, tank isn’t super mature plus temp and phosphate swings probably not great. Along with salinity swings but looks like you have an ATO now?

Tank pic?

Haha I’ll keep that in mind next time I’m at the barber. I didn’t do anything to intervene. I have a skimmer running and good amount of Cheato. Yes added ATO yesterday so we will see what that does to help. Pictures aren’t great but I tried my best

 

[Pod_01]

What I observed over the years is that sinking phosphate (especially rapidly decreasing) below 0.05 level will lead to dead corals.
My suggestion would be to stop chasing phosphate and let it do it’s thing. Track it to make sure it stays above 0.05.
Definitely remove GFO, nothing ever bad happens when people stop using it.
If you feel the need to control nutrients try to use TM NP Bacto Ballance at 0.5ml per day. This will feed your bacteria, they will consume phosphorus and corals will feed on the bacteria.
Try that for 2-3 weeks and see if things improve and corals start looking happier.

Water changes in my opinion are a must. Also I would suggest to use only 50ml of activated carbon and change once every 4-6 weeks.
Once things start looking better you can try other things like feeding corals.

Good luck,

 

[newyorkmets15]

Are you able to keep fish and other inverts (anemones/snails/shrimp etc) without issue?

I do think you’re lowering your phosphates too much at one time. I think using GFO is okay, but dropping it to almost 0 is not a good idea.

Yes. No anemones but no issues with fish whatever. I hope I’m not jinxing myself with that statement. With snails there appears to be some die off but I think that’s normal to a degree. Correct me if I’m wrong but I have a lot of snails of various types and overall they are all doing well

 

[Propane]

Post a pic of the tank. Oops you did

 

[newyorkmets15]

What I observed over the years is that sinking phosphate (especially rapidly decreasing) below 0.05 level will lead to dead corals.
My suggestion would be to stop chasing phosphate and let it do it’s thing. Track it to make sure it stays above 0.05.
Definitely remove GFO, nothing ever bad happens when people stop using it.
If you feel the need to control nutrients try to use TM NP Bacto Ballance at 0.5ml per day. This will feed your bacteria, they will consume phosphorus and corals will feed on the bacteria.
Try that for 2-3 weeks and see if things improve and corals start looking happier.

Water changes in my opinion are a must. Also I would suggest to use only 50ml of activated carbon and change once every 4-6 weeks.
Once things start looking better you can try other things like feeding corals.

Good luck,

Thanks man! Yeah seem removal of GFO is the overwhelming consensus and I will do that