Why can't I keep Montipora & Acropora?

[Creggers]

Hello R2R,

I've been reefing now for nearly a year now. My 75 gallon tank has been wet since last September and I've been keeping the levels in my tank relatively stable now for a while. I have success keeping most LPS and some sps (specifically pocillopora) however I cannot for the life of me get montipora nor acropora to survive. I hit road bump early on with my tank and ended up losing control of my levels, so I didn't add anything until I had three months of stable major elements & nutrients. I started with Live Rock, have bivalves, corraline algae, and a healthy population of micro fauna in the tank so all signs point to success (or so I thought).

Montipora don't even survive long enough for their polyps to come out, they slowly fade and bleach out over the course of about two weeks. Acropora teases me with success for about 3 weeks to a month before the polyps go away and flesh starts to recede from the tips and base.

I ran an ICP test through triton prior to adding SPS again, and confirmed that I had no heavy metals or other contaminants in my tank. I did have slightly elevated PO4 which I slowly reduced to target numbers over the course of about 3 weeks (via water changes & mixing resin in with my carbon).

I'm including all my levels below - I'm wondering if anyone has any insight as to what I could be missing here? I feel like at this point it has to be something obvious that I'm overlooking.

Levels (averages over last 3 months):

Salinity: 35ppt (calibrated refractometer)
CA: 470 - 500 (Trident)
DKH: 8.2 - 9 (Trident)
MG: 1300 - 1450 (Trident)
PO4: .08 - .4 (Hannah)
NO3: 5-10
PH: 8.0 - 8.3
Par: 100-250 (Peak levels for 4 hours a day, supplemental T5s)
Flow: Icecap 4k, Icecap 2k, AI Nero

Stocking list:
Lawnmower Blenny
Royal Gramma
Yellow Corris Wrasse
Melanarous (sp) Wrasse
Purple Tang
Red Flasher Wrasse
Blue Reef Chromis


**My target for DKH is 8.5, but after waterchanges it sometimes gets as high as 9**
**My Calcium spiked somehow and I've been slowly letting it drop back down to 450 - everything I've read tells me that this wouldn't create the issues that I'm having**

 

[NowGlazeIT]

I’ve been having problems with phosphates lately. When they were high I lost my sps, when they were zero I lost a few lps. Finding the balance is the adventure I’m currently on

 

[MarshallB]

What were the PO4 levels when you added the SPS? If you have proper flow and lighting the only thing I can see is the PO4 possibly being at that peak .4 level causing issues.

 

[Creggers]

What were the PO4 levels when you added the SPS? If you have proper flow and lighting the only thing I can see is the PO4 possibly being at that peak .4 level causing issues.

So there's been SPS added three times over the past 60 days.

Once at the peak of .4

Once at around .2 or so

and again at .1


It was not intentional, I had placed orders and the delivery was predetermined (I try to space out additions to the tank and normally make purchases once a month from various vendors). They've all had similar outcomes, the most recent acropora that I introduced at .1 or so didn't look great when I got it, it was a discount bin stick at the local fish store and I just wanted to see if it would survive.

 

[secoendo]

I personally think you don’t have enough light. Hitting 250 par for only a 4 hour window is not enough. In the wild these corals receive sunlite for like half a day. I would give them at least 250 par for 10 hours a day, a little higher par being even better.

also watch the po4 levels. 0.4 ppm is not impossible for sps but it is fairly high. Preferably kept under 0.1 ppm

 

[TheDragonsReef]

For sps ideally youll need to keep phosphates between 0.03-0.12. A big phosphate swing will kill sps as well. And they will need more light if you want to keep acros. Montis should be fine at 250 par but id run it at peak light for about 7-8hrs if 250 is your max.

 

[Creggers]

For sps ideally youll need to keep phosphates between 0.03-0.12. A big phosphate swing will kill sps as well. And they will need more light if you want to keep acros. Montis should be fine at 250 par but id run it at peak light for about 7-8hrs if 250 is your max.

I personally think you don’t have enough light. Hitting 250 par for only a 4 hour window is not enough. In the wild these corals receive sunlite for like half a day. I would give them at least 250 par for 10 hours a day, a little higher par being even better.

also watch the po4 levels. 0.4 ppm is not impossible for sps but it is fairly high. Preferably kept under 0.1 ppm

So I was under the impression that too much light would kill coral considerably faster than too little. I kept an eye on the coloration of the sticks and it never browned out or anything, the colors actually generally look fine.

It doesn't explain the issue I'm having with the montis, I cant even keep green plating alive in my system which is mindboggling to me. My assumption is whatever's impacting the Acros is also giving me issues with the Montipora.

I will consider extending the T5s to run throughout the day - that way the sps will be in 250+ par for 10 hours.

 

[Reefer_punk]

In my experience salinity above 34 will angry montipora. Acropora definitely hate po4 swings and do well between 0,03-0,06. I run my t5's for 7,5 hours a day. Most acros (not the tenuis) love a lot of light.

 

[Saltinmyblood]

Hello R2R,

I've been reefing now for nearly a year now. My 75 gallon tank has been wet since last September and I've been keeping the levels in my tank relatively stable now for a while. I have success keeping most LPS and some sps (specifically pocillopora) however I cannot for the life of me get montipora nor acropora to survive. I hit road bump early on with my tank and ended up losing control of my levels, so I didn't add anything until I had three months of stable major elements & nutrients. I started with Live Rock, have bivalves, corraline algae, and a healthy population of micro fauna in the tank so all signs point to success (or so I thought).

Montipora don't even survive long enough for their polyps to come out, they slowly fade and bleach out over the course of about two weeks. Acropora teases me with success for about 3 weeks to a month before the polyps go away and flesh starts to recede from the tips and base.

I ran an ICP test through triton prior to adding SPS again, and confirmed that I had no heavy metals or other contaminants in my tank. I did have slightly elevated PO4 which I slowly reduced to target numbers over the course of about 3 weeks (via water changes & mixing resin in with my carbon).

I'm including all my levels below - I'm wondering if anyone has any insight as to what I could be missing here? I feel like at this point it has to be something obvious that I'm overlooking.

Levels (averages over last 3 months):

Salinity: 35ppt (calibrated refractometer)
CA: 470 - 500 (Trident)
DKH: 8.2 - 9 (Trident)
MG: 1300 - 1450 (Trident)
PO4: .08 - .4 (Hannah)
NO3: 5-10
PH: 8.0 - 8.3
Par: 100-250 (Peak levels for 4 hours a day, supplemental T5s)
Flow: Icecap 4k, Icecap 2k, AI Nero

Stocking list:
Lawnmower Blenny
Royal Gramma
Yellow Corris Wrasse
Melanarous (sp) Wrasse
Purple Tang
Red Flasher Wrasse
Blue Reef Chromis


**My target for DKH is 8.5, but after waterchanges it sometimes gets as high as 9**
**My Calcium spiked somehow and I've been slowly letting it drop back down to 450 - everything I've read tells me that this wouldn't create the issues that I'm having**

Definitely need to run your lights longer at least eight hours. Keep phosphates really low keep your nitrates under 10... keep everything stable avoiding large swings.

 

[PatW]

Your chemistry parameters look good.

I had problems growing SPS.

I wonder if you used dry rock in your system. I did. I had intransigent problems with cyano bacteria. It was not horrible but very persistent. I tied nutrient control and various other things and nothing really had much effect. For some reason, I bought a number of the bacteria cocktails for increasing bacteria diversity in reef tanks. I added them and the cyano went away. I did get hair algae after that but it is not bad. The thing is that after this my SPS corals grew much better even though the chemistry was the same.

Are you getting coralline algae? Having growth of coralline is a good sign.

I find that montipora are pretty bullet proof in my system and were from the start. They just did not grow much. Now they are nearly at pest levels.

There is a sort of check list.

If you can, get a PAR meter and measure your light output. Light in coral reefs ramps up for about 2 hours and ramps down for 2 hours (or a bit longer). You want 12 - 14 hours of light. Of course, the shoulders of your light intensity will not be full power just a fraction of it. Try to get your lights in the ballpark of intensity And hopefully spectrum.

SPS corals like flow and lots of it. I would suggest at least 40 fold turnover. World Wide Corals runs 100 fold. I dive and I have seen flows on reefs that far exceed what we have in aquariums.

SPS corals do not like variations. So get an auto top off if you don’t have one.
Variation in ALK is not liked. So if you need to dose to keep it at your target level, you will probably need a doser.
Calcium is not as critical. I use a doser to maintain ALK but for Ca I just hand dose daily.
I find that I can maintain Mg with water changes.
Your nutrient levels might be high for Acropora but your Montipora should be fine.

Reef aquarium systems are complex and have all sorts of moving parts. Your problem could be a number of things that are just a bit off or just one thing. And it is awfully hard to tell. Once a reefer gets their system working, they tend to not fool with success.

You could try chanting an incantation to the Sumerian god of acropora in the light of a waning quarter moon.

Good luck to you.

 

[Cell]

Parameter swings.

 

[Viva'sReef]

"You could try chanting an incantation to the Sumerian god of acropora in the light of a waning quarter moon."

I'm about to try this....

 

[Spieg]

At less than a year, your tank is still pretty new. Agree with above. Acropora can be very difficult to keep happy. Typically require very clean (low nutrient) systems and stability. A couple of dosers maintaining dKH and Mg (dosed in small increments 10-15 times per day) are a big help. Also need to be very careful with water changes so the new water very closely matches the tank parameters (you may need to look around for a salt ix that mixes to your desired tank parameters or test and adjust your fresh mixed water before use).

Not sure why you're having so much trouble with Montipora as most (but not all) of them are pretty easy to keep (there is a variety or orange monti that is particularly easy). Maybe buy some easier SPS (birds nest or bird of paradise for example) and wait until you keep one alive for 6 months or so before moving to something more challenging.

 

[Oldreefer44]

I have Monti's over-running my tank and have about 40 healthy Acro's. I don't think that PO4 is that big an issue as I have had it as high as .6 before without losing anything. Do agree with the lighting as an opportunity. I run mine for 12 hours a day with them at peak for about 4 of that. PAR is above 300 for that time on 3 or 4 large Monti pieces for several hours. If it were me I would gradually raise PAR and the photoperiod. Then concentrate on parameter stability.

 

[Creggers]

So I've introduced a encrusting Monti last week and I'm keeping my parameters as consistent as possible. The only thing that's been a struggle is my Magnesium that drops 10-15 pts per day. So far so good, normally I notice a decline in the health of the monti immediately so I'm cautiously optimistic at this point.

 

[Kingston]

So I've introduced a encrusting Monti last week and I'm keeping my parameters as consistent as possible. The only thing that's been a struggle is my Magnesium that drops 10-15 pts per day. So far so good, normally I notice a decline in the health of the monti immediately so I'm cautiously optimistic at this point.

@Creggers how is your tank doing? I am in the same boat and was looking up what my problem could be and landed on this thread.

 

[Creggers]

@Creggers how is your tank doing? I am in the same boat and was looking up what my problem could be and landed on this thread.

I’ve actually begun to have success with all SPS recently. Honestly I increased my flow a good bit and made it more “random” by using different pumps and varying strengths. Ever since that and sticking to my monthly water change schedule I’ve had success.

after Seeing the encrusted do well, I introduced some acropora and have seen success there too.

 

[Kingston]

I’ve actually begun to have success with all SPS recently. Honestly I increased my flow a good bit and made it more “random” by using different pumps and varying strengths. Ever since that and sticking to my monthly water change schedule I’ve had success.

after Seeing the encrusted do well, I introduced some acropora and have seen success there too.

Thanks for the update....Glad you are have some success. I have an 8ft tank with 2 gyre and 2 tunzes, I guess thats not enough flow. I thought I will wait to start seeing some growth before adding more flow. I got some Acros during the black Friday sale and I think I am going to lose all of them.

 

[Creggers]

Thanks for the update....Glad you are have some success. I have an 8ft tank with 2 gyre and 2 tunzes, I guess thats not enough flow. I thought I will wait to start seeing some growth before adding more flow. I got some Acros during the black Friday sale and I think I am going to lose all of them.

I've seen it said a couple times but I think the whole "one day things just snap into place and work" is a weird but true mantra to go by. I literally didn't do anything drastically different and saw a huge increase in success, the additional flow certainly helped me along but I think the maturity of my tank just hit the right spot to support some more complex corals.

I'm planning a new build here over the next few months and plan on running the systems side by side for a while to build up some good biodiversity before moving corals / rocks from my current tank. Taking all the lessons I've learned about flow, managing major elements, filtration, etc. and applying them to my new tank.

 

[wmo168]

I’ve actually begun to have success with all SPS recently. Honestly I increased my flow a good bit and made it more “random” by using different pumps and varying strengths. Ever since that and sticking to my monthly water change schedule I’ve had success.

after Seeing the encrusted do well, I introduced some acropora and have seen success there too.

I have the same problem with new tank, after a year everything grow like crazy. Key is FLOW, I ran it 80% on my Nero and you can see the water current like crazy. make sure you have enough power head in the tank.. Your fish should be fighting hard to swim in the water.. not crazy but it need flow.