Why did my Euphyllia (Hammer and Torch) corals die?

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I would bring that up a little. My understanding is magnesium is an important element when it comes to LPS sticking to their skeleton. It’s probably more related to Po4 as many suggested but raising Mg certainly wouldn’t hurt
Just purchased the Hanna ULR phosphate tester today and the result was 0.01
 
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This is an odd thing that happened. Corals don't die for no reason. Did you do any water changes recently? What's your nutrient export method (I saw carbon dosing as one of them)? Did you dose all 20 ml of NOPOX at once? How do you monitor temperature? Was there any change in lighting? If there's a question you can think to answer that I haven't asked, include it with your response.
Just purchased the Hanna ULR phosphate tester today and the result was 0.01
I do 20gal water changes biweekly and was doing Microbact7 daily at full strength, Vinegar 20ml once week and Red Sea Algae treatment 5ml daily. This lasted 2 weeks while I fought Red Cyno. Killed all the cyno and stopped dosing just a few days ago. The corals died within the last few weeks with the last one on Saturday.
 

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Just purchased the Hanna ULR phosphate tester today and the result was 0.01
I do 20gal water changes biweekly and was doing Microbact7 daily at full strength, Vinegar 20ml once week and Red Sea Algae treatment 5ml daily. This lasted 2 weeks while I fought Red Cyno. Killed all the cyno and stopped dosing just a few days ago. The corals died within the last few weeks with the last one on Saturday.
If your phosphates are where they're at now and you stopped dosing a few days ago, you likely bottomed out your phosphate. If you go back to carbon dosing for nutrient removal, use just the vinegar. Carbon dosing requires very frequent testing of both nitrate and phosphate. Always start off slow. It's also not good to add all of the vinegar at once, but to instead dose it daily at smaller amounts. There was likely a bacterial bloom after you dosed the vinegar which didn't help things. Instead of the aggressive chemical treatments, up the water change schedule next time to 25-30% once per week while manually removing as much algae as you can. Consider investing in a turbo snail. They're known for eating cyano as well as many other algaes. Nothing good happens fast in this hobby, only bad things do.
 
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If your phosphates are where they're at now and you stopped dosing a few days ago, you likely bottomed out your phosphate. If you go back to carbon dosing for nutrient removal, use just the vinegar. Carbon dosing requires very frequent testing of both nitrate and phosphate. Always start off slow. It's also not good to add all of the vinegar at once, but to instead dose it daily at smaller amounts. There was likely a bacterial bloom after you dosed the vinegar which didn't help things. Instead of the aggressive chemical treatments, up the water change schedule next time to 25-30% once per week while manually removing as much algae as you can. Consider investing in a turbo snail. They're known for eating cyano as well as many other algaes. Nothing good happens fast in this hobby, only bad things do.
I think I will hold off any dosing for now and just watch the tank. Will do another water change this weekend and retest all parameters.
 

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I think I will hold off any dosing for now and just watch the tank. Will do another water change this weekend and retest all parameters.
There's no reason to do a water change right now. Your nutrients are low. You can instead run your filter sock into a hose while sucking up algae and recycle the water. That way you're not removing more nutrients and you still get the benefit of removing algae and cyano.
 
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There's no reason to do a water change right now. Your nutrients are low. You can instead run your filter sock into a hose while sucking up algae and recycle the water. That way you're not removing more nutrients and you still get the benefit of removing algae and cyano.
Ok thanks; If I don't do a water change will I need to dose

Two Little Fishies C-Balance?​

 

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Ok thanks; If I don't do a water change will I need to dose

Two Little Fishies C-Balance?​

What's your daily alkalinity and calcium usage? You can use two little fishies product, but I've found BRS 2 part to be clean and very affordable. You only need to dose if your corals are using up alk and calcium.
 
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What's your daily alkalinity and calcium usage? You can use two little fishies product, but I've found BRS 2 part to be clean and very affordable. You only need to dose if your corals are using up alk and calcium.
Ok thanks; just noticed my cyno is back. Do you recommend Chemi clean?
 

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Ok thanks; just noticed my cyno is back. Do you recommend Chemi clean?
Is there a lot? Cyano is a fairly normal part of having a reef tank. Sometimes it comes and goes. Unless it's starting to take over the tank, either siphon into a filter sock in the sump or remove it during your next water change. I have cyano in my tank right now, but it's a very small amount. Eventually it just goes away as other bacteria out compete it. It's only when it's starting to cover corals or multiple areas throughout the tank that it becomes a problem. Your corals are likely still in shock. If manual removal isn't enough after a week or two of letting your corals recuperate, then feel free to dose chemiclean. Be sure to follow all of the instructions and DO NOT overdose. I let it run for 72 hours, but you'll likely see improvement after just a day. It's normal for your skimmer to overflow after the treatment is done. You can find several threads on here outlining use of chemiclean.
 
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Is there a lot? Cyano is a fairly normal part of having a reef tank. Sometimes it comes and goes. Unless it's starting to take over the tank, either siphon into a filter sock in the sump or remove it during your next water change. I have cyano in my tank right now, but it's a very small amount. Eventually it just goes away as other bacteria out compete it. It's only when it's starting to cover corals or multiple areas throughout the tank that it becomes a problem. Your corals are likely still in shock. If manual removal isn't enough after a week or two of letting your corals recuperate, then feel free to dose chemiclean. Be sure to follow all of the instructions and DO NOT overdose. I let it run for 72 hours, but you'll likely see improvement after just a day. It's normal for your skimmer to overflow after the treatment is done. You can find several threads on here outlining use of chemiclean.
Thanks; just a very small amount starting on the sand and rock. What is your opinion of 3 day without lights?
 
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Thanks; just a very small amount starting on the sand and rock. What is your opinion of 3 day without lights?
Someone else can chime in at any point, but a blackout isn't something I usually like to do. It's just another stresser for corals. The solution is to figure out what's causing the issue. In this case, good bacteria have been killed off and now bad bacteria is starting to grow. Frequent testing and a regular, consistent maintenance schedule is your best friend. With stability and time, good bacteria will take over. I'd stick with manual removal right now. Sometimes the best medicine for the tank is getting your hands a little wet and some elbow grease.
 

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Thanks; just a very small amount starting on the sand and rock. What is your opinion of 3 day without lights?
Just let the Cyano age. It will dissapear on it own within a month or 6 weeks. I hate the look too, but when you notice that it does not damage, you learn to accept it in small amounts.

That Cyano Cycle is a good way to know you tank is maturing, stabilizing, and then ready to look better on it's own. (With Patience). The more you fight Cyano with CHEMICAL, the more you make things unatural for your Corals.
Sure you can clean the Sand, siphon off the Cyano during water changes to speed things up. Nothing more.

If you are in the normal parameters for Stable Salinity (1.026) and in a good (RANGE) ALK 7.5-9.0 , CALCIUM 350-450, MAG 1250-1350, let you tank ride and don't chase perfect number since there are no perfect numbers for everyone's tank setup. When you chase other people working numbers, it makes your tank swing unaturallay like a Yo-Yo on a rubber band.

As far as Phosphates, if you are not going to be SPS dominant, then Euphelia will thrive in all levels of Phosphate.
Lower Phosphates will be worse. Zero Phosphates or Swinging, Quick Drops, are deadly/damaging to all corals.

Let me give you an example going back a few year when I was Euphylia dominiant Tank Setup.
My Favourites were Frogspawns, and Torches.
MY Nitrates were 50+ ppm (STABLE), and my PHOSPHATE was 0.6ppm (STABLE) (not 0.06) and the Corals were Healthy and grew like Crazy. I had to prume every year to reduce the clutter.
Kitchen90GalLPSTank-small.jpg


I did nothing to control N&P. No Vinegar, No Carbon. Just a Skimmer and a water change every two months.
For younger tanks with less live rock, once every month Water changes are ideal.
You could say this tank hadFilthy Water Paramters. Certainly no SPS would grow in it (I tried once).

The Secret was Leave it alone, and achieve some reasonable stability and good nutrients (Feed Fish = Fish Poo = Best-Coral-Food).
The more you feed fish, but not over feed, your Phosphates will go up. (Free..No bottles from Store)

No magic potions or Coral Food, Amino's needed. Amino's always gave me Cyano, even in the best of setups.
Live rock, or aged rock that becomes live over time also is great.

Also, there is Flow. Eyphylia like nice and gentle flow, just enough so they extend their tentacles. Not aggressive to cause them retract or get damaged.

And Last but not least. LPS like Light Stability. They will acclimate to your light schedule and intensity over time. They will even learn and started opening up before your lights come on, and start closing up before your lights turn off or dim.
Better to start with a little lower lighting and work your way up slowly.
The Tank in PHoto ABove has 150 W x 2 Metal Hailades & T5's, and Eyphylia love the Intensity. Just took time to adpat. Eventually I switch to LED/T5 and again LPS needed time to adjust.....LONG TIME.

All the best of luck, and keep trying not to change things too much and too often. That has alway been my failure.
 
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oregongrownreef

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Just let the Cyano age. It will dissapear on it own within a month or 6 weeks. I hate the look too, but when you notice that it does not damage, you learn to accept it in small amounts.

That Cyano Cycle is a good way to know you tank is maturing, stabilizing, and then ready to look better on it's own. (With Patience). The more you fight Cyano with CHEMICAL, the more you make things unatural for your Corals.
Sure you can clean the Sand, siphon off the Cyano during water changes to speed things up. Nothing more.

If you are in the normal parameters for Stable Salinity (1.026) and in a good (RANGE) ALK 7.5-9.0 , CALCIUM 350-450, MAG 1250-1350, let you tank ride and don't chase perfect number since there are no perfect numbers for everyone's tank setup. When you chase other people working numbers, it makes your tank swing unaturallay like a Yo-Yo on a rubber band.

As far as Phosphates, if you are not going to be SPS dominant, then Euphelia will thrive in all levels of Phosphate.
Lower Phosphates will be worse. Zero Phosphates or Swinging, Quick Drops, are deadly/damaging to all corals.

Let me give you an example going back a few year when I was Euphylia dominiant Tank Setup.
My Favourites were Frogspawns, and Torches.
MY Nitrates were 50+ ppm (STABLE), and my PHOSPHATE was 0.6ppm (STABLE) (not 0.06) and the Corals were Healthy and grew like Crazy. I had to prume every year to reduce the clutter.
Kitchen90GalLPSTank-small.jpg


I did nothing to control N&P. No Vinegar, No Carbon. Just a Skimmer and a water change every two months.
You could say this tank was Filthy Water. Certainly no SPS would grow in it (I tried once).

The Secret was Leave it alone, and achieve some reasonable stability and good nutrients (Feed Fish = Fish Poo = Best-Coral-Food).
The more you feed fish, but not over feed, your Phosphates will go up. (Free..No bottles from Store)

No magic potions or Coral Food, Amino's needed. Amino's always gave me Cyano, even in the best of setups.
Live rock, or aged rock that becomes live over time also is great.

And Last but not least. LPS like Light Stability. They will acclimate to your light schedule and intensity over time. They will even learn and started opening up before your lights come on, and start closing up before your lights turn off or dim.
Better to start with a little lower lighting and work your way up slowly.
The Tank in PHoto ABove has 150 W x 2 Metal Hailades & T5's, and Eyphylia love the Intensity. Just took time to adpat. Eventually I switch to LED/T5 and again LPS needed time to adjust.....LONG TIME.

All the best of luck, and keep trying not to change things too much and too often.
Did we just become best friends? I love this reply. There are a lot of elixirs out there. They work for some tanks, but only because that tank is ran using a very specific method. KISS= Keep it simple, silly.
 
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I might as well show an example of the Other End of the Spectrum (Low but STABLE Nutrients) and that LPS just need Light as Food.

This is kind of coincidental since it happend this last weekend.

About 3 years ago, I gave my Brother in law One Head or my Frogspawn, One Trumpet Head, and One Blue Mushroom, from the Tank in the Photo I posted above.

He did have 2 fish, but a year+ ago got rid of them. So only had my coral pieces.
So his nutrients were low. His nitrates for around 2ppm, and his Phosphates around 0.05ppm when I measure his tank once. He never measured N&P, only Alk and Calcium.
He did water changes every 4-6 months, and ran his LED BOX light just Blue and Low Intensity.

He called me a few weeks ago that he was shutting down his tank 100% and offered me my Corals back. I agreed.

He brought them over just this last weekend
. I threw them into my 35 Gallon Tank.

This is how much those single head pieces grew into over 2.5 - 3 years. Just lighting and water.

2021-01-12_BrotherInLaw-LPS-1.jpg


They are a bit pale, and certainly sensitive to light and nutrients, but healthy and they MULTIPLIED.

2021-01-12_BrotherinLaw-LPS-2.jpg


2021-01-12_BrotherInLaw-LPS-3.jpg


So it proves that LPS just need light to live, thrive and grow. Food helps but isn't necessary.
 
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Just let the Cyano age. It will dissapear on it own within a month or 6 weeks. I hate the look too, but when you notice that it does not damage, you learn to accept it in small amounts.

That Cyano Cycle is a good way to know you tank is maturing, stabilizing, and then ready to look better on it's own. (With Patience). The more you fight Cyano with CHEMICAL, the more you make things unatural for your Corals.
Sure you can clean the Sand, siphon off the Cyano during water changes to speed things up. Nothing more.

If you are in the normal parameters for Stable Salinity (1.026) and in a good (RANGE) ALK 7.5-9.0 , CALCIUM 350-450, MAG 1250-1350, let you tank ride and don't chase perfect number since there are no perfect numbers for everyone's tank setup. When you chase other people working numbers, it makes your tank swing unaturallay like a Yo-Yo on a rubber band.

As far as Phosphates, if you are not going to be SPS dominant, then Euphelia will thrive in all levels of Phosphate.
Lower Phosphates will be worse. Zero Phosphates or Swinging, Quick Drops, are deadly/damaging to all corals.

Let me give you an example going back a few year when I was Euphylia dominiant Tank Setup.
My Favourites were Frogspawns, and Torches.
MY Nitrates were 50+ ppm (STABLE), and my PHOSPHATE was 0.6ppm (STABLE) (not 0.06) and the Corals were Healthy and grew like Crazy. I had to prume every year to reduce the clutter.
Kitchen90GalLPSTank-small.jpg


I did nothing to control N&P. No Vinegar, No Carbon. Just a Skimmer and a water change every two months.
For younger tanks with less live rock, once every month Water changes are ideal.
You could say this tank hadFilthy Water Paramters. Certainly no SPS would grow in it (I tried once).

The Secret was Leave it alone, and achieve some reasonable stability and good nutrients (Feed Fish = Fish Poo = Best-Coral-Food).
The more you feed fish, but not over feed, your Phosphates will go up. (Free..No bottles from Store)

No magic potions or Coral Food, Amino's needed. Amino's always gave me Cyano, even in the best of setups.
Live rock, or aged rock that becomes live over time also is great.

Also, there is Flow. Eyphylia like nice and gentle flow, just enough so they extend their tentacles. Not aggressive to cause them retract or get damaged.

And Last but not least. LPS like Light Stability. They will acclimate to your light schedule and intensity over time. They will even learn and started opening up before your lights come on, and start closing up before your lights turn off or dim.
Better to start with a little lower lighting and work your way up slowly.
The Tank in PHoto ABove has 150 W x 2 Metal Hailades & T5's, and Eyphylia love the Intensity. Just took time to adpat. Eventually I switch to LED/T5 and again LPS needed time to adjust.....LONG TIME.

All the best of luck, and keep trying not to change things too much and too often. That has alway been my failure.
Thank you so much for that information. I had a really bad cyno outbreak that had started to cover my blue candy cane coral, so I kind of panicked. I am running 2 MP40 power heads at 50%, should I lower them?
 
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Someone else can chime in at any point, but a blackout isn't something I usually like to do. It's just another stresser for corals. The solution is to figure out what's causing the issue. In this case, good bacteria have been killed off and now bad bacteria is starting to grow. Frequent testing and a regular, consistent maintenance schedule is your best friend. With stability and time, good bacteria will take over. I'd stick with manual removal right now. Sometimes the best medicine for the tank is getting your hands a little wet and some elbow grease.
ok Thanks; does Microbacter7 remove good bacteria?
 

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Thank you so much for that information. I had a really bad cyno outbreak that had started to cover my blue candy cane coral, so I kind of panicked. I am running 2 MP40 power heads at 50%, should I lower them?

A pump of any type will vary depening on the size of tank, and how you have rocks, corals placed, and where you place your pumps.

It's always best just to look at your corals. They do talk in their own sign language. It take a lot of eperience to understand them, and you always keep learning with new Corals.

In your case, you care about some Euphylia. If they are opening up then your flow is fine.
Mushroom will open up huge if not enough flow. Just two examples.

If you have dead spots in flow that is where you will always get the more concentrated Cyano. Build up of sediment.
It's really tough to eliminate all dead flow spots in any tank.

That's where maintenance cleaning comes into play.
Once every while you show blow off the detritus (dust) off you rocks. No need to scrub.

And if you have a sand bed that will need regular cleaning. Either sifting it yourself during water changes, or getting clean up crew to sift it for you.
I personally have struggled with Sand Bed many years. Never could keep up.
Sure I love the powdery white Sand bed look, but it never was powdery white for long.
So I gave up on Sandbed in one tank. Problems went away. Not all my Tanks are Glass bottom and I'll never go back.

AGAIN. The best thing you can do for your tank is leave it alone. Only fix, adjust thing when there is a problem you understand and know how to fix. Sometimes the fix can just be patience. Certainly Stability is key to success.

To close on the Cyano topic. I too HATE Cyano. Sure I've used Chemiclean, and actually only a few months ago when my cyano was just getting too ugly. That was the worst thing I did. At first I thought nothing went wrong, but shortly afterwards things didn't do too well. Maybe it was the ChemiClean, or maybe just bad luck.

One product I do trust for Cyano is Cyano Clean.
https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/reefing/Cyano-Clean
I just ordered some again, since I have a Cyano problem that I can't stop.
It's a good bacteria that will out compete the Cyano Bacteria. It's works slowly. Take weeks and daily drops. It has worked for me every time, since it actually increases good bacteria when the treatment is done.
You must get the right amount. 10ml bottle is for small tanks. I get the 50ml bottle for my 110Gallon tank.
It's expensive!! (Maybe the Dr. Tim's that was suggested above works just as well for way less $)
I use it with Coral Snow as a agent.
https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/korallen-zucht-coral-snow.html
Both together work well, and Coral Snow can be used for keeping your water sparkly clean in between water changes. I can't really say Coral Snow is a good product for regular use, but I always have some handy for doing the Cyano Clean treatment.


All the best.
 
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