Why did YOU choose a needle wheel skimmer?

[Sir Chris]

On my skimmer I know a lot of different pumps that slide in

 

[seamonster]

Was having this conversation with someone recently and I'd like to know your own personal feelings on the matter. If you know me and have been around my build threads you know I have a preference for using LifeReef skimmers which are venturi based. My own personal experience of using needle wheel skimmers vs LifeReef skimmers (my only experience with venturi based skimmers) is that the LR skimmers have been much easier to set up, are more consistent, much less finicky to changes in water chemistry, still produce nasty nasty skimmate, can run in a variety of water heights, and no proprietary pump or needle wheel to wear out/break. I like that I can use my choice of pump and get a replacement anywhere/anytime. You can also use ozone with them if you wish, and the cup recirculates unused ozone through the skimmer, no need for carbon. No maintenance required other than cleaning the cup and wiping the neck since this brand in particular sucks humid air from the cup into the venturi so no salt buildup to contend with. And finally, I haven't done this myself, but since the body is straight (not cone shaped) with a flanged top, they can be extended if you upgrade tanks, rather than having to purchase a whole new skimmer.

A couple advantages I can see to more modern needle wheel skimmers is they are smaller and more power efficient. So a tiny sump or when every kilowatt counts might be situations better suited to this option. No venturi to clog, but as stated this is a nil point with the brand i'm using. Price is also an advantage in many cases.

So I'm just curious... especially to those who are NEW to the hobby... what made you choose a needle wheel? This is not a "which type of skimmer is better" thread. I just want to hone in on why YOU made the choice you did, that's all. Needle wheels dominate the hobby now and I'm curious why that is. Would really appreciate your thoughts on the matter.

Recommendation from your LFS or fellow reefers?
Sump size? Power requirements?
Didn't know any other option existed?
Were told they perform better?
Venturi is "old skool"?
Tried both and prefer the needle wheel? For what reason(s)?

Thanks!

Needle wheel is much more efficient in a smaller footprint.wjen o started using a dump I was going to use a Venturi based unit but the space it needed was more than the needle wheel one...this was around 30 years ago.... I’m not sure nowadays about Venturi ones...I’m not in The market right now for a new skimmer.....

 

[DesertReefT4r]

NW skimmers are cheaper and pretty much all that is made other than LR and the EV series. The 2 EV skimmers I had experience with never worked right. So for me that's why I go with NW skimmers.

 

[sundog101]

Efficiency. Space.

 

[mcarroll]

(Yes that's old-fashioned website naming....they been around!)

Hah! Looks like Cobalt might have acquired aquac.com for them!!! Woot.

 

[PhreeByrd]

I've used several venturi models and a couple of needle wheel skimmers. Both types worked well. When I last shopped for a new skimmer a few years ago, almost everything I found was needle wheel. They allow smaller pumps and simpler setup/adjustment, which I think benefits the end user, and manufacturers hooked onto that as a big selling feature. For my application, I needed a small footprint, and my choice for a venturi style was limited to AquaC, which I had experience with and liked, although I found them touchy and a little tricky to set up. I chose an AquaMaxx needle wheel skimmer which has a tiny footprint for its capacity and is crazy simple when it comes to cleaning and adjusting. It's also very productive. But I've been through 3 proprietary and ridiculously-priced pump impellers in 5 years, so its days may be numbered.

 

[Victoria M]

I had a venturi skimmer for a second or two about 10 years ago. It was just too big for my sump. It was actually locally made and sold at a LFS. For an acrylic piece made by a local guy - it was really nice. But I never even broke it in. Then I used a cheapy needle skimmer. Not much to say there. When I got my 180 about 9 years ago it came with an ASM. That was good enough. Seemed pretty good. Then I upgraded to a RO 200 int, and wow it was a big upgrade. I never knew skimmate should be smelly! Lol. I will stick with this skimmer as I rebuild because it has done what I need it to do and fits in my sump well. Solid performer the way I have it set up now. But you do not want to add kalk to that section of the sump. That always ends poorly. Umm, dennis are you gonna visit my rebuild thread? I came over from RC, was Mrs. Music, and was a bit of a stalker when I found you there because Loved your videos on youtube, and LOVED your set up. Is it bad etiquet to blatently beg a visit? If so, I apologize. LOL.

 

[mrpizzaface]

MTC does a Venturi skimmer too. It is the MVX series. Haven’t used it yet, but the build quality is top notch.

 

[SlvrZ]

I switch back and forth between a SRO 2000 and a LF 36" that i chopped down and reglued.
The SRO 2000 is awesome in what it pulls out, honestly way better than the LR does, the only issue is that neck needs to constantly be cleaned vs the LR that you can abuse and it will still pull stuff out. When the NW goes out (which i know it will) I'll be buying another skimmer with a smaller foot print. Crazy enough, the LR and the SRO 2000 both have roughly the same foot print....because they both fit in the same small spot in my sump! I keep the LR as back up now a day due to the noise that it makes, its very noticeable compared to the NW.

 

[gcarroll]

When you are paying $.35 - $.53/kwh for electricty, you quickly come to the conclusion that needle wheel are the best skimmers. I know no one locally that has anything other than a needle wheel.

 

[d2mini]

When you are paying $.35 - $.53/kwh for electricty, you quickly come to the conclusion that needle wheel are the best skimmers. I know no one locally that has anything other than a needle wheel.

LOL, yeah... our .08-.10 is a little easier on the wallet.

 

[gcarroll]

LOL, yeah... our .08-.10 is a little easier on the wallet.

If I paid that I would still run MH, have a chiller, run Iwaki return pumps and closed loops, and a big ole beckett skimmer

 

[JeffT]

Needle wheel skimmers are pretty much all that’s for sale... I couldn’t even name a Venturi brand for sale in the UK, but I’m going to google it now out of interest...

There are only a few of us that continue to make the more efficient and longer lasting venturi skimmers and you won't find them in any stores because we sell direct to the customer. Low production vs mass-production and mass-marketing. But there are major differences and it isn't just a "tube full of bubbles". And needle-wheels do use a venturi, it's that tiny thing on the pump suction vs a much larger venturi on the pump output. And, any pump can be used on a true venturi, any pump, any time, any cost, any wattage, as long as it has the gph to operate the venturi.

 

[JeffT]

A skimmer is basically a "tube full of bubbles" (contrary to what I posted earlier) but the bubble size is what makes a major difference in performance and design.
In needle-wheels the bubbles are all about the same size, and buoyancy. When these similar buoyancy bubbles rise to the surface they just kind of hang around in a layer of non-moving bubbles except for a slight "push" of the entire wetter bubble mass up the c0lumn. Bubbles coming in from the bottom will tend to wash off any proteins and solids from those lower bubbles and this then builds up inside the skimmer body and parts. Also, nw skimmers have much wider neck diameters than venturi skimmers due to the wetter foam and tiny bubbles. If a nw skimmer had a narrow neck it could not be controlled very well and dump an even wetter foam into the cup. This also gives the nw skimmer a much narrower adjustment range and more difficult to tune in.
A true venturi placed after the pump will produce bubbles of various diameters and buoyancy, larger bubbles wanting to go all the way to the top of the bubble/foam stack. So up in the neck area you get additional contact time with these rising bubbles as the now dry rising bubbles strip off proteins and solids from the smaller bubbles at the bottom, kind of like a continuous "foam extrusion" process, and why these skimmers body does not collect a lot of solids and needs very little cleaning. The neck diameters are also smaller to compress this foam into a tighter mass so the solids and proteins can be pushed into the cup. These skimmers have a much greater adjustment range and why they can be adjusted for a "dry" to wet foam.

 

[gcarroll]

A skimmer is basically a "tube full of bubbles" (contrary to what I posted earlier) but the bubble size is what makes a major difference in performance and design.
In needle-wheels the bubbles are all about the same size, and buoyancy. When these similar buoyancy bubbles rise to the surface they just kind of hang around in a layer of non-moving bubbles except for a slight "push" of the entire wetter bubble mass up the c0lumn. Bubbles coming in from the bottom will tend to wash off any proteins and solids from those lower bubbles and this then builds up inside the skimmer body and parts. Also, nw skimmers have much wider neck diameters than venturi skimmers due to the wetter foam and tiny bubbles. If a nw skimmer had a narrow neck it could not be controlled very well and dump an even wetter foam into the cup. This also gives the nw skimmer a much narrower adjustment range and more difficult to tune in.
A true venturi placed after the pump will produce bubbles of various diameters and buoyancy, larger bubbles wanting to go all the way to the top of the bubble/foam stack. So up in the neck area you get additional contact time with these rising bubbles as the now dry rising bubbles strip off proteins and solids from the smaller bubbles at the bottom, kind of like a continuous "foam extrusion" process, and why these skimmers body does not collect a lot of solids and needs very little cleaning. The neck diameters are also smaller to compress this foam into a tighter mass so the solids and proteins can be pushed into the cup. These skimmers have a much greater adjustment range and why they can be adjusted for a "dry" to wet foam.

Thanks Jeff! I needed that laugh to start my weekend!

 

[Sonor]

I used tunze on my 28 gal, was happy with it but the skimmate was always a little wet. when i started my 190 gal I researched extensively and decided on the Lifereef, which is a venturi skimmer. Couldn't be happier, very easy to adjust, once set, it virtually is done. It can be adjusted for a very wet or very dry skimmate. It even has an air feed from the skimmer cup to the venturi which keeps salt formation in the venturi from forming, this also helps to reduce some of the noise from the skimmer, it is almost completely silent. I've had mine up running over 3 years now and haven't needed to clean the venturi once. It just keeps producing that dark skimmate. I never owned a needle wheel skimmer, don't think I ever will.

 

[DanConnor]

I've been using an SRO-3000 last couple of years, and honestly it has been fine. Iirc I had never used a needle-wheel before, so thought I would give it a try.

I also started out with a wooden airstone DIY. I recall the first time I tested it, I underestimated the output from the air pump and blew all the water directly out of the skimmer.

Then I think I had a couple of Aqua-Cs and a nice skimmer from Barr Aquatics. I just googled them and was surprised to see they still seem to be in business.
http://www.barraquatic.com/index.php

If the SRO craps out for any reason, I'll probably go to Lifereef or maybe see if Barr is really in business.

Electricity cost is not an issue for me; I make my own. ;Shamefullyembarrased

 

[jduong916]

I don't like the excess power consumption also available space needed with the additional pump.

I've mainly used aquamaxx for needle wheel, the performance is pretty consistant. I haven't had to adjust the skimmer since I've bought it, never been finicky provided you provide a constant water height. What I don't like is the replacement of the pumps. They go bad if not properly maintained and the pumps for the Aquamaxx are about 1/2 the price of the skimmer which really sucks.