Why do Acropora turn green?

[Perry]

Yeah, when they go green, they get sent down to the farm team. For sale: $5 per pound.

Holy smokes Scott!
Might be more affordable to harvest for skeletons in the CRX, lol...

 

[92Miata]

Anything in a tank that can hurt you loses a lot of points for certain people lol. Plus some people think worms are gross.

I've been keeping reefs since about '98 and I think I've noticed being spiked by a bristleworm once or twice in that time.

Most of these people are trying to keep bristleworms out because they're being told they should. The primary driver of this is one specific vendor that sells dry rock and "clean" macro algae.

We need to get away from telling people that paid infomercials are how you start reefkeeping - especially when the methods in those infomercials are slow, expensive, and have low success rates.

There's no such thing as a sterile reef - you're going to have animals and bacteria - and all people are doing trying to control this stuff is creating weird unbalanced and unstable systems that are missing major parts of a normal ecosystem.

The problem with that statement is that your are not accounting for the fact that what thrives in our tank wouldn't decimate a healthy reef because a healthy reef has far more organisms than ours to eat and compete. We don't have an environment where AEFW, bad nudibranchs, plenty of pest algae,certain predators, aiptasia, etc. has their natural checks and balances

Here's the thing - most of these sort animals only flourish in disturbed ecosystems. Aiptasia are trivial to deal with in a mature reef tank, and algae pretty much just goes away (corals kick its butt). Most of the time the actions to proactively prevent these things do more damage than the pests themselves.

(And most of these problems come in on corals - not rock)

 

[Spare time]

I've been keeping reefs since about '98 and I think I've noticed being spiked by a bristleworm once or twice in that time.

Most of these people are trying to keep bristleworms out because they're being told they should. The primary driver of this is one specific vendor that sells dry rock and "clean" macro algae.

We need to get away from telling people that paid infomercials are how you start reefkeeping - especially when the methods in those infomercials are slow, expensive, and have low success rates.

There's no such thing as a sterile reef - you're going to have animals and bacteria - and all people are doing trying to control this stuff is creating weird unbalanced and unstable systems that are missing major parts of a normal ecosystem.



Here's the thing - most of these sort animals only flourish in disturbed ecosystems. Aiptasia are trivial to deal with in a mature reef tank, and algae pretty much just goes away (corals kick its butt). Most of the time the actions to proactively prevent these things do more damage than the pests themselves.

(And most of these problems come in on corals - not rock)

I don't believe it to be true that preventing these things causes more harm than good. And no not really, these pests can thrive in a mature reef tank. Ever been to an lfs? Notice how their age old systems typically have these pests? Corals also do not outcompete algae. In real reefs, algae chokes out corals if something caused a major disturbance in their predator's presence. And no, most of these problems don't necessarily come on coral. Coral and rock are practically the same thing in a reef tank except rock has way more places for pests to live and hide. Also, no one is trying to keep a sterile reef. I am not sure how people equate little to no pests as sterile as they have nothing to do with each other. We need to stop comparing reef tanks to normal reef ecosystems because they simply are not. We pick and choose creatures from all over the world to live in a tiny box that is nothing like an actual reef. I'm going to stop talking about this here though since I don't want to hijack the thread topic.

 

[92Miata]

I don't believe it to be true that preventing these things causes more harm than good. And no not really, these pests can thrive in a mature reef tank. Ever been to an lfs? Notice how their age old systems typically have these pests? Corals also do not outcompete algae. In real reefs, algae chokes out corals if something caused a major disturbance in their predator's presence. And no, most of these problems don't necessarily come on coral. Coral and rock are practically the same thing in a reef tank except rock has way more places for pests to live and hide. Also, no one is trying to keep a sterile reef. I am not sure how people equate little to no pests as sterile as they have nothing to do with each other. We need to stop comparing reef tanks to normal reef ecosystems because they simply are not. We pick and choose creatures from all over the world to live in a tiny box that is nothing like an actual reef. I'm going to stop talking about this here though since I don't want to hijack the thread topic.

Funny, in my tanks they do. There's nowhere for algae to grow because every surface is coralline or coral. In a mature reef you can have 1ppm phosphate and 100ppm nitrate and still not have algae problems.

Old LFS tanks look like crap because they're not maintained properly.

And yes, using dry rock to "prevent pests" does way more damage to tanks than pests like isopods or aiptasia have ever done. Using dry rock over live doesn't help you with coral eating pests. They come in on coral.

"Coral and rock are practically the same thing" is the most obtuse thing I've ever read on here. I've never seen a case of AEFW or monti nudis, or any other coral pest that came in on rock.

 

[LARedstickreefer]

Doesn’t Jason Fox run all blues in his tank? Also, I used to run just royal blue LEDs and nothing else and had good growth and color. I don’t think it’s the blue LEDs causing the greening.

 

[Neuratox]

Doesn’t Jason Fox run all blues in his tank? Also, I used to run just royal blue LEDs and nothing else and had good growth and color. I don’t think it’s the blue LEDs causing the greening.

There certainly seem to be a lot of people on YouTube that primarily run blues, but what they say and what is done in practice... who knows. I think the best advice I've seen is sit and wait. I'll try that for a month or two. If I don't see any shift from green then I'll send in for an ICP, see what my trace elements are at, adjust accordingly, wait again, and then adjust lights if necessary.

 

[spsick]

Doesn’t Jason Fox run all blues in his tank? Also, I used to run just royal blue LEDs and nothing else and had good growth and color. I don’t think it’s the blue LEDs causing the greening.

He mentioned in the video tour of his basement that he runs all blue T5s, I believe the Giesemann equivalent of ATI Blue Plus which is a full spectrum bulb.

 

[Steve and his Animals]

I've been keeping reefs since about '98 and I think I've noticed being spiked by a bristleworm once or twice in that time.

Most of these people are trying to keep bristleworms out because they're being told they should. The primary driver of this is one specific vendor that sells dry rock and "clean" macro algae.

We need to get away from telling people that paid infomercials are how you start reefkeeping - especially when the methods in those infomercials are slow, expensive, and have low success rates.

There's no such thing as a sterile reef - you're going to have animals and bacteria - and all people are doing trying to control this stuff is creating weird unbalanced and unstable systems that are missing major parts of a normal ecosystem.



Here's the thing - most of these sort animals only flourish in disturbed ecosystems. Aiptasia are trivial to deal with in a mature reef tank, and algae pretty much just goes away (corals kick its butt). Most of the time the actions to proactively prevent these things do more damage than the pests themselves.

(And most of these problems come in on corals - not rock)

Maybe you haven't been hit by enough of them/a big one. I've had fingers swell for a couple days after a bad sting. Everyone's different I guess.

 

[Grill]

When I read about issues with acropora I think of ABE's channel. He knows his stuff... Acropora Coral Care | The Modern Reefer's Predicament

 

[areefer01]

Most of these people are trying to keep bristleworms out because they're being told they should.

Yep - I've always said ignorance is bliss... Oddly enough I feel the same way about worrying about nitrate and phosphate. Years ago we never tested for it. Someone creates a test kit and now we test it, compare it to a magical number (which no one really can point to how it was derived), and even dosing both now.

Bristleworms are great and beneficial to our systems. I have nothing to back that up other than my opinion and of course Mother Nature's trump card as they are found in reefs around the world.

 

[Neuratox]

When I read about issues with acropora I think of ABE's channel. He knows his stuff... Acropora Coral Care | The Modern Reefer's Predicament

Yup, I know his channel well and I've ordered from him twice now. Great quality!

 

[Neuratox]

I've been keeping reefs since about '98

I've always said ignorance is bliss

In response to a number of people discussing what critters should/shouldn't be in a reef tank I think it is important to consider that different people approach their tanks differently. Personally, my goal is to make it look like I took a chunk out of the reef... however, like many others I intend to cram as many corals in as possible - in such a way that you would not naturally see in one area. Many in the freshwater, vivarium, and even gardening communities have a similar approach where they want things to look natural, yet organized. Perhaps things like bristle worms and aptasia are commonly found in reefs across the world. I imagine that there are a number of other things that are found among the reef that even you wouldn't dream of letting into your tank. Natural does not necessarily equal desirable. By all means, let whatever you want into your tanks. Sure, the new, more cautious approaches may have downsides, as you said they're fairly new. In time the kinks in the new approach will be ironed out.

My point is, referring to something as "ignorance" or thinking you know better because you do things the old school way isn't how we make progress in this hobby or life in general.

"Coral and rock are practically the same thing" is the most obtuse thing I've ever read on here. I've never seen a case of AEFW or monti nudis, or any other coral pest that came in on rock.

I've never circumnavigated the globe, seen the power of an atomic bomb, or personally calculated the speed of light... yet the world is still round, I have a rationale fear of nuclear warfare, and I have every reason to believe that it is the maximum speed limit of the universe. Facts do not revolve around your personal experience.

 

[areefer01]

My point is, referring to something as "ignorance" or thinking you know better because you do things the old school way isn't how we make progress in this hobby or life in general.

Maybe you don't understand the meaning behind the phrase. Nowhere in that metaphor does it allude to knowing better. If you do not know about something, you do not worry about it...

 

[Neuratox]

Maybe you don't understand the meaning behind the phrase. Nowhere in that metaphor does it allude to knowing better. If you do not know about something, you do not worry about it...

You clearly aren't thinking through its use. You only use this phrase when referring to something being done erroneously. Not when you are in support of it.

 

[educatedreefer]

Just read through this interesting article in regards to GFP and color morphs in corals in response to light intensity or photostress and blue light intensity.

Trade-Offs Associated with Photoprotective Green Fluorescent Protein Expression as Potential Drivers of Balancing Selection for Color Polymorphism in Reef Corals

Photodamage of symbiotic algae exposed to thermal stress is involved in mass coral bleaching, a major cause of reef decline. Photoprotection is therefore a vital part of coral stress physiology. Corals produce a variety of green fluorescent protein (GFP)-like proteins, some of which screen the...

www.frontiersin.org

There’s a lot of anecdotal reasons why corals may change their coloration; light intensity, nutrient imbalance, or lacking essential amino acids, but i think reading a few articles on coral pigmentation might help deepen our understanding on the mechanism, and thus, the root source of observable color shifts.

 

[areefer01]

You clearly aren't thinking through its use. You only use this phrase when referring to something being done erroneously. Not when you are in support of it.

Of course I am. You just disagree. We disagree.

 

[Neuratox]

Just read through this interesting article in regards to GFP and color morphs in corals in response to light intensity or photostress and blue light intensity.

Trade-Offs Associated with Photoprotective Green Fluorescent Protein Expression as Potential Drivers of Balancing Selection for Color Polymorphism in Reef Corals

Photodamage of symbiotic algae exposed to thermal stress is involved in mass coral bleaching, a major cause of reef decline. Photoprotection is therefore a vital part of coral stress physiology. Corals produce a variety of green fluorescent protein (GFP)-like proteins, some of which screen the...

www.frontiersin.org

There’s a lot of anecdotal reasons why corals may change their coloration; light intensity, nutrient imbalance, or lacking essential amino acids, but i think reading a few articles on coral pigmentation might help deepen our understanding on the mechanism, and thus, the root source of observable color shifts.

As a biologist and neuroscientist, I completely agree with you that it is essential for us to turn to science to seek answers to our questions. As I understand it, the article that you've provided here is helpful in our understanding of coral bleaching, but not so much in defining shifts in pigmentation due to the expression of different fluorophores as light intensity changes. I do like your approach and will see if I can find some others that may be helpful to this situation.

 

[Perry]

As a biologist and neuroscientist, I completely agree with you that it is essential for us to turn to science to seek answers to our questions. As I understand it, the article that you've provided here is helpful in our understanding of coral bleaching, but not so much in defining shifts in pigmentation due to the expression of different fluorophores as light intensity changes. I do like your approach and will see if I can find some others that may be helpful to this situation.

Glad you clarified your credentials

 

[Neuratox]

Glad you clarified your credentials

I wear them with a badge of pride mate. I don't know humility

 

[areefer01]

I wear them with a badge of pride mate. I don't know humility

I'd recommend you listening to Todd Gardner's MACNA 2022 presentation then if you haven't already or didn't catch it live.