Why do people ask for coral pics under "daylight" lighting...and does anyone ACTUALLY use this type

[Daniel@R2R]

Ok. So I've seen more requests than I can count (or want to) for corals under "daylight" color/lighting. Anytime someone posts a coral that looks like the picture was taken under lighting with a bluer spectrum that brings out the coral's colors, it seems someone asks for a picture under "daylight" spectrum...or makes fun of the photographer for "smurf" fingers (bc there's a blue tint to the fingers) or "blue frag plugs" (the poor etiquette in the latter case is worse IMO). I'm not talking about photos that are "blued out" (bad photography) or grossly over saturated (photochopped)...I get the issue with those, but...the very term "daylight" lighting seems strange to me to begin with since (from what I understand) most corals are not found under anything that looks like white light (except at low tide)...wouldn't most of them be under a predominantly blue spectrum during their daylight hours on the natural reef anyway (since that's the one that is penetrating to the depths where they are growing)? :noidea:

I get people keeping corals under 14k or 20k (which is where I have my radions set), but 10k or less?? I get that people want to see coral under the same kind of lighting that they will see it in under their own lights, so if people are actually keeping coral under a 10k (or less) color spectrum, I understand the request...but it seems odd to me that people would keep corals under those conditions (maybe because everyone I know has gone to a 14k or higher spectrum). I even saw where someone told a guy to photograph his tank inhabitants with a flash to get their "natural" colors (again...I don't get this unless you're aiming a strobe at the tank). :doh: I personally hate seeing corals photographed (or kept) under white/yellow light...which makes them ALL look brown (or at least dull) IMO. So could someone please help me understand the obsession with "daylight" pictures?

Sorry for the rant. I am hoping someone can help me understand what seems to me to be a strange request. Maybe I'm misinterpreting the whole "daylight" thing. ...or maybe I'm naive and there's a whole reefing trend of 10k or less spectrum tanks out there that I haven't been aware of.

 

[currentking]

Honestly,
I feel people ask for daylight pictures so when they get them in their tank they are not disappointed. They want to see them at their worst so the expectation isn't so high. Just my 2 cents

 

[Daniel@R2R]

Honestly,
I feel people ask for daylight pictures so when they get them in their tank they are not disappointed. They want to see them at their worst so the expectation isn't so high. Just my 2 cents

That actually makes sense to me. I just wish it were presented that way (that people know the coral won't actually look that bad/dull) instead of it being presented as wanting to see what it "naturally/really" looks like (as if the vendor/seller should have posted that kind of a pic to start with). Thanks for that thought...it explains why people would want to see a picture of the coral in worse lighting than they will keep it under. Good point to make.

 

[Reefnjunkie]

To get an accurate answer the folks that ask for those shots need to chime in but I believe you hit the nail on the head (IMO) when you mentioned the photoshopping. It's the same idea as when they ask for a picture with a flash-it's tough to doctor or 'enhance' that type of pic.

Most of the time the OP doesn't have the equipment to tak anything but a blue washed pic but there are plenty of folks that hide a corals true colors with a blue wash. Personally I post pics of what the coral will look like in a tank that's viewd under 18-20k look. It takes some time but I shoot in RAW and post edit to remove all thatt blue.

Great question though, I'd love to hear from those how ask that question-personally I can see past all the "chop-shop"

 

[RalphsReef]

Because some vendors love to manipulate a coral's color and deceive the potential buyer.

 

[Daniel@R2R]

Because some vendors love to manipulate a coral's color and deceive the potential buyer.

Could you elaborate a little on this? I get the issue of Photoshop abuse (definitely to be frowned upon), but how does taking a dull/browned out picture under white/yellow light fix this? Couldn't it be said that this is also a gross misrepresentation of the coral? It seems to me that if we say a vendor/seller should take a 10k (or less) pic, then we're asking them to take a picture that doesn't do the coral justice. Definitely doesn't sound like this is asking for accuracy (since I'll never be looking at the coral in this kind of lighting once I get it).

 

[Daniel@R2R]

Btw, I am also afraid of a growing trend in this hobby toward lynching vendors or sellers any time they have a nice picture. I've seen people claim Photoshop abuse of nice chalices and acros that were definitely true to life pictures (accurately represented as viewed under 14k or 20k lighting)...just because the viewer thought the coral looked too nice...skepticism isn't a virtue IME.

 

[Rob.D]

IMO, pics from fellow hobbyists get a "pass" when their pics are blue, simple because most people don't have a dslr, macro lense and photo editor on hand, but it ticks me off when vendors post saturated/way over saturated (obviously photoshopped). If they (retailers) can afford to buy thousands of dollars worth of livestock, they should be able to purchase and correctly use photo editing software.....no excuses!

Maybe I'm wrong but it's my opinion.

 

[jackson6745]

Sounds to me that you are specifically referring to Led lighting. IMO this is the problem. Blue LED does create and artificial look to all corals types. I run a mix of 20k halide, t5, and blue led per my tank. I do have a 14k-20k overall spectrum. If I ran only blue LED's, sure, I wouldn't care but the is not the case. I prefer seeing the spectrum under real display settings, not blue glow to show the florescence of the coral. Some of these guys might as well use black lights

 

[hybridazn]

I've always believed that asking for a "daylight" pic is just a waste of time. Just think about it, a pic can be just as easily manipulated in PS under 10k or less lighting as a 20k shot. I think it just boils down to if you think the photo has been saturated to over exaggerate the coral then don't buy. But crying wolf just because the pictures details when it is uploaded says it was in PS doesn't mean the saturation has been tampered with. Most everyone uses PS to get the coral to as close to what is in their tank.

 

[Daniel@R2R]

IMO, pics from fellow hobbyists get a "pass" when their pics are blue, simple because most people don't have a dslr, macro lense and photo editor on hand, but it ticks me off when vendors post saturated/way over saturated (obviously photoshopped). If they (retailers) can afford to buy thousands of dollars worth of livestock, they should be able to purchase and correctly use photo editing software.....no excuses!

Maybe I'm wrong but it's my opinion.

I agree with your statements, but I'm not sure how asking for a "daylight" shot helps. Maybe it's the term "daylight" that causes the issue. What do you think? What is meant when someone asks for a daylight shot?

Sounds to me that you are specifically referring to Led lighting. IMO this is the problem. Blue LED does create and artificial look to all corals types. I run a mix of 20k halide, t5, and blue led per my tank. I do have a 14k-20k overall spectrum. If I ran only blue LED's, sure, I wouldn't care but the is not the case. I prefer seeing the spectrum under real display settings, not blue glow to show the florescence of the coral. Some of these guys might as well use black lights

I'm running LED's, but many of the pics I'm thinking about are taken under halides or T5's. I get wanting true representation, but how does "daylight" (which I understand to be 10k or less) help?

I've always believed that asking for a "daylight" pic is just a waste of time. Just think about it, a pic can be just as easily manipulated in PS under 10k or less lighting as a 20k shot. I think it just boils down to if you think the photo has been saturated to over exaggerate the coral then don't buy. But crying wolf just because the pictures details when it is uploaded says it was in PS doesn't mean the saturation has been tampered with. Most everyone uses PS to get the coral to as close to what is in their tank.

This! I agree! If someone is going to manipulate a pic, they'll do it under any lighting. Asking for a "naked" pic does no good. If you don't trust, don't buy.

 

[Rob.D]

Here is an example of how photoshop can be very useful.

First pic as shot in RAW under LED

Second pic white balance corrected in photoshop to reflect how it looks to me in my tank.

and finally how I wish it looked so I could charge $599 per 1" :xd:

 

[that Reef Guy]

Ok. So I've seen more requests than I can count (or want to) for corals under "daylight" color/lighting. Anytime someone posts a coral that looks like the picture was taken under lighting with a bluer spectrum that brings out the coral's colors, it seems someone asks for a picture under "daylight" spectrum...or makes fun of the photographer for "smurf" fingers (bc there's a blue tint to the fingers) or "blue frag plugs" (the poor etiquette in the latter case is worse IMO). I'm not talking about photos that are "blued out" (bad photography) or grossly over saturated (photochopped)...I get the issue with those, but...the very term "daylight" lighting seems strange to me to begin with since (from what I understand) most corals are not found under anything that looks like white light (except at low tide)...wouldn't most of them be under a predominantly blue spectrum during their daylight hours on the natural reef anyway (since that's the one that is penetrating to the depths where they are growing)? :noidea:

I get people keeping corals under 14k or 20k (which is where I have my radions set), but 10k or less?? I get that people want to see coral under the same kind of lighting that they will see it in under their own lights, so if people are actually keeping coral under a 10k (or less) color spectrum, I understand the request...but it seems odd to me that people would keep corals under those conditions (maybe because everyone I know has gone to a 14k or higher spectrum). I even saw where someone told a guy to photograph his tank inhabitants with a flash to get their "natural" colors (again...I don't get this unless you're aiming a strobe at the tank). :doh: I personally hate seeing corals photographed (or kept) under white/yellow light...which makes them ALL look brown (or at least dull) IMO. So could someone please help me understand the obsession with "daylight" pictures?

Sorry for the rant. I am hoping someone can help me understand what seems to me to be a strange request. Maybe I'm misinterpreting the whole "daylight" thing. ...or maybe I'm naive and there's a whole reefing trend of 10k or less spectrum tanks out there that I haven't been aware of.

It is funny because here I see people complain on this site about not having pics that are not Blue.

But when I go to other sites they flame me for blue pics.

I think the High End Collectors that spend the Big Bucks that Hang Out here on this Site use a lot of Blue.

But other more Casual Coral People on other Sites that do not pay 100's or thousand's on Frags use more 50/50 Lighting because that is what a lot of LFS use (At least here in Michigan).

They say that having Blue Lights are just to Scam People to Sell Coral and that you cannot use Blue Long Term. They say you need Full Spectrum and the more Colors the Better.

I think things are slowly changing as more people (Including Myself) went Blue.

But a lot of people have not caught on and it seems they are mostly the casual crowd that buys more common cheaper corals from their LFS.

They do not care about the latest and greatest from Jason Fox or Reef Raft (If they even know who they are that is).

They tend to call people who spend a lot on coral bad names and do not understand our obsession.

My 2 Cents.

 

[Rob.D]

I agree with your statements, but I'm not sure how asking for a "daylight" shot helps. Maybe it's the term "daylight" that causes the issue. What do you think? What is meant when someone asks for a daylight shot?

I think some of the "daylight" pic requests are honest requests to see the coral in a less that flattering spectrum, not to say they are asking for a 5k incandescent bulb pic but simply a pic with the white balance corrected, unfortunately there are some whom are simply posting without any real interest other than backdoor flaming the seller for their own keyboard tuff guy gratification, in my not so humble assuming opinion.

 

[currentking]

Ok, I don't like when the vendor over saturates to enhance the picture but I understand why. Maybe it really looks like that in their tank. Maybe they are wearing beer goggles.
When you see commercials on TV or ads in magazines they put the clothes they are selling on these hott models. You order the clothes thinking they will look just as good on you until you get it and realize it's time to start exercising. Some coral vendors do the same thing.

I think the term daylight is used when the buyer wants to see the coral in the most natural light possible. So next time I ask for a daylight picture please bring the frag outside and snap that picture.

 

[Rob.D]

Ok, I don't like when the vendor over saturates to enhance the picture but I understand why. Maybe it really looks like that in their tank. Maybe they are wearing beer goggles.
When you see commercials on TV or ads in magazines they put the clothes they are selling on these hott models. You order the clothes thinking they will look just as good on you until you get it and realize it's time to start exercising. Some coral vendors do the same thing.

I think the term daylight is used when the buyer wants to see the coral in the most natural light possible. So next time I ask for a daylight picture please bring the frag outside and snap that picture.

LOL, good 'ole beer goggles!!!

 

[Daniel@R2R]

I think some of the "daylight" pic requests are honest requests to see the coral in a less that flattering spectrum, not to say they are asking for a 5k incandescent bulb pic but simply a pic with the white balance corrected, unfortunately there are some whom are simply posting without any real interest other than backdoor flaming the seller for their own keyboard tuff guy gratification, in my not so humble assuming opinion.

I can see this explanation of the idea of a daylight picture (though I still think the term "daylight" is misused). The biggest problem is that most any vendor is going to say that they have already provided a picture that best represents the coral's actual colors (whether it does or not). I agree that these requests are often just "posting without any real interest other than backdoor flaming the seller for their own keyboard tuff guy gratification" (I love the way you have stated this). I think it comes back to an issue of needing to decide if you trust the seller and his/her photography or if it's better to walk away...

Ok, I don't like when the vendor over saturates to enhance the picture but I understand why. Maybe it really looks like that in their tank. Maybe they are wearing beer goggles.
When you see commercials on TV or ads in magazines they put the clothes they are selling on these hott models. You order the clothes thinking they will look just as good on you until you get it and realize it's time to start exercising. Some coral vendors do the same thing.

I think the term daylight is used when the buyer wants to see the coral in the most natural light possible. So next time I ask for a daylight picture please bring the frag outside and snap that picture.

LOL This gets my "best post of the night" award! ROFL at the "beer goggles" comment! :thumb:

And, I think you've hit a big part of the issue. Most vendors do want to show their corals in the best possible photo (as would I) as this shows the coral's desirability. This becomes an issue when the picture is misrepresented (which is not always easy to determine from the picture). However, the request for a daylight picture doesn't really help with this issue IME...taking a bad picture of a coral doesn't balance out the over-exaggerated and "beer goggled" picture...it just equally misrepresents it on the other end of the spectrum.

Using your example of models and clothing, it would be like talking about photoshopping in the modeling industry and how it misrepresents what the model truly looks like...and then asking for a picture of the model in the morning when she first wakes up with no make-up and bedhead and in ambient lighting...to see what she "really looks like." ...neither is a accurate representation.

 

[Reef Pets]

I feel lighting takes a HUGE part in this. Some people like very blue lighting which has been mentioned while others not so much. If one vendor or hobbyist likes blue lighting with heavy actinics there's a very good chance they will use this lighting for photos, that's the lighting they have..
I see it pointless to ask for a daylight picture. What's the odds of people that run let's say 20k halides having 10k bulbs laying around to use for pictures.
Many LEDs are adjustable therefore having a whiter light is as easy as turning a knob.
In all, people will generally take photos under the lighting of which they keep their reef.
I had LEDs running for a short time and must say that coral look completely different to me from halides to LED even though the spectrum was very close. Enhancing photos that are being used to sell a coral is a completely different problem. It seems to have gotten better over the past year. A couple years ago saturation was being used extensively.

 

[Marquiseo]

I As many have stated above bluer spectrums is what most recent hobbyists use for their lighting. There are some hobbyist that do still use 10k and below color spectrum and these are primarily "old heads/vets of this hobby". People buy corals based on looks and the bluer the spectrum, the better the look. It is as simple as that. That is why pics are taken under the blue light. As for people asking for daylight, some requests are genuine and others are just to be trolls. They expect to see the same intense coloration under a lesser spectrum which is not possible.

Even so, if I were to take a 6.5k image and crank up the saturation, you wouldn't even know it but if I were to take that same image under 20K and try to crank the saturation up, the change would be greatly spotted which is what you see on one major eBay seller's store.

Personally, I feel that if you want the coral then buy; otherwise move on stop asking for daylight pictures unless you really can't make out the coral. Even then you should just ask for a clearer image which leads to another opinion, that if you own high end corals and trying to sell them, you should have a nice camera and not some raggedy Nokia flip phone trying to take pics. This seems to be something quite common on here; you spend $500 on a coral but you can't afford to invest in a camera or upgrade your phone to a recent smart phone. SMH

 

[82engineer]

There are still a few of us that run 10k's. Yes we are a underrepresented minority anymore but like has been stated before when someone is going to drop $1-$1000 on a coral any seller worth his/her salt shouldn't have an issue with taking a "daylight" picture. It's really a fairly simple thing to do. And considering certain corals actually look better under a 10k bulb than a 20k don't discount the idea that it's a valid request.