why is so little known by hobbyist about 80+ strains of bacteria

[SteveMM62Reef]

Best thing I ever did, was on a trip to Florida, I brought back Uncured Live Rock. The Rock had never really left the water, it constantly had water poured over it while it was on the boat. I brought it back in buckets, with the Big Bubbles Air Pumps running on the buckets. I still have two of the pumps, the other two were loaned out and I never got them back. I still have that live rock, don’t remember exactly when I got it, but it was over 15 years ago.

 

[ZoWhat]

Best thing I ever did, was on a trip to Florida, I brought back Uncured Live Rock. The Rock had never really left the water, it constantly had water poured over it while it was on the boat. I brought it back in buckets, with the Big Bubbles Air Pumps running on the buckets. I still have two of the pumps, the other two were loaned out and I never got them back. I still have that live rock, don’t remember exactly when I got it, but it was over 15 years ago.

Original poster here...

Quote above in a roundabout way is why I posted this discussion.... that we rarely add anything to our tanks that is directly sourced from Mother Nature.

It seems most live rock and substrate comes from God knows where, from another tank that got it from another, and so on and so on.

Where's the Mother Nature LINEAGE of Live bacteria in YOUR TANK?

How far removed from Mother Nature is your tank? 3 tanks away? Half dozen? A dozen?

The guy said what he said about having 80-120ish strains of bacteria.... and that it (IN HIS UNFOUNDED UNRESEARCHED OPINION) having that range of 80-120ish family of bacteria TENDS (not guaranteed) to promote healthier corals.

Look at my original words: "said a successful reef tank has a lot to do with 1) cultivating 80+ strains of bacteria over SEVERAL cycles/months, and 2) continual cultivating of these bacterial strains cycle to cycle"

"Has a lot to do" does not equal "is absolutely needed or REQUIRED"

"Successful reef tank" would = a tank that is sustainably thriving and corals are not stagnant in growth/color or slowly dying over a years time.

I swear, I need a staff of technical writers and lawyers to phrase things in the exact wording so some ppl don't jump on my words like a Lion on a Antelope carcass.

But... its all good. It makes for varying opinions so we can see a spectrum of thoughts and come to our own individual conclusions

.

 

[Miami Reef]

@zoa what

Do you dose trace elements? Have you gotten an ICP test?

Maybe your zoas aren’t growing because you are lacking in trace elements.

 

[brandon429]

Here is an example of the barest input of bacteria possible in a home setting growing corals excellently

only to show variance in outcomes and association. I believe this is the most restrictive one could be on bac import / controlled against diverse additions other than what rode in on corals, snail shells etc. Shows the polar opposite method producing a fine fine reef

Build Thread - My SPS Waterbox Peninsula Mini 15

Hi all. Long time member (I think I joined right around when R2R started or took off years ago) but got out of the hobby for about 6 years and now I am back! I don't see many build threads for the PM 15 (mostly the 25) so thought I'd share my journey here. This post will be a bit behind...

www.reef2reef.com

where we are trained to buy more strains, diversify, he did the polar opposite from day one. it was neat to see that tank graduate into a bigger better one using bacterial restriction vs boosting

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The guy said what he said about having 80-120ish strains of bacteria.... and that it (IN HIS UNFOUNDED UNRESEARCHED OPINION) having that range of 80-120ish family of bacteria TENDS (not guaranteed) to promote healthier corals.

Look at my original words: "said a successful reef tank has a lot to do with 1) cultivating 80+ strains of bacteria over SEVERAL cycles/months, and 2) continual cultivating of these bacterial strains cycle to cycle"

"Has a lot to do" does not equal "is absolutely needed or REQUIRED"

"Successful reef tank" would = a tank that is sustainably thriving and corals are not stagnant in growth/color or slowly dying over a years time.

I swear, I need a staff of technical writers and lawyers to phrase things in the exact wording so some ppl don't jump on my words like a Lion on a Antelope carcass.


.

Uh, no. Both was of writing the same opinion seem like wild, unsubstantiated speculation that no one should accept as true without any evidence.

Did he suggest what that evidence was? Of course not.

If we rewrite it again to read be less wildly speculative:

"said a successful reef tank has a lot to do with bacteria that can take a long time to fully develop"

then it may or may not be true, but folks can recognize it as an opinion and ask: what is the evidence?

 

[ZoWhat]

Uh, no. Both was of writing the same opinion seem like wild, unsubstantiated speculation that no one should accept as true without any evidence.

Did he suggest what that evidence was? Of course not.

If we rewrite it again to read be less wildly speculative:

"said a successful reef tank has a lot to do with bacteria that can take a long time to fully develop"

then it may or may not be true, but folks can recognize it as an opinion and ask: what is the evidence?

Wild, unsubstantiated speculation? Plz don't murder the Messenger, Caesar. Lol

I'm just conveying what was shared with me. Guess I should have taken what was shared with me and folded it nicely into my breast pocket unshared.

BTW it came from a scientist who was on the team that directly developed oil-spill-eating microbes years and years ago. Am I going to share his name? I wouldn't put him under that kind of r2r-flavored scrutiny tbh....

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Don't murder the messager, Caesar.

I'm just conveying what was shared with me.

BTW it came from a scientist who was on the team that directly developed oil-spill-eating microbes years and years ago. Am I going to share his name? I wouldn't put him under that kind of r2r-flavored scrutiny tbh....

lol

If you ask him privately, I'm expect he will admit that that there's not much evidence of what bacterial species are needed to have a great reef tank. There isn't even agreement on what a reef tank is or what makes one great. The species needed in a soft coral and macroalgae tank may be very different than in an NPS tank or a SPS tank using ultra low inorganic nutrients and organic compounds. Undoubtedly these will have differences in bacterial species abundances.

He was probably just essentially saying that the web of bacterial species and process in the ocean is large and complex. I can certainly accept that, and I couldn't reject the notion that it also evolves over the lifetime of a reef tank.

 

[ZoWhat]

He was probably just essentially saying that the web of bacterial species and process in the ocean is large and complex. I can certainly accept that, and I couldn't reject the notion that it also evolves over the lifetime of a reef tank.

Not sure if his comments where more of an entertaining thought over scientific content or not... since it was during a BS water cooler discussion

But YES I agree with what is bolded above.


.

 

[MnFish1]

Wild, unsubstantiated speculation? Plz don't murder the Messenger, Caesar. Lol

I'm just conveying what was shared with me. Guess I should have taken what was shared with me and folded it nicely into my breast pocket unshared.

BTW it came from a scientist who was on the team that directly developed oil-spill-eating microbes years and years ago. Am I going to share his name? I wouldn't put him under that kind of r2r-flavored scrutiny tbh....

I am sorry if it seemed like I 'ripped apart your words' - I'm surprised how many people just jumped on the bandwagon agreeing with you, in all honesty. All anyone else is doing is sharing their opinion, Right?

 

[ZoWhat]

I am sorry if it seemed like I 'ripped apart your words' - I'm surprised how many people just jumped on the bandwagon agreeing with you, in all honesty. All anyone else is doing is sharing their opinion, Right?

It's all good. Just an open discussion about a topic not fully understood

And I guess that was my ENDGAME... to point out that little is known about the forces of bacteria

I've often wonder why two nearly identical tanks can be so different. One thriving and one stagnant.... bacteria??? Hmmmmm.

 

[Midrats]

Wild, unsubstantiated speculation? Plz don't murder the Messenger, Caesar. Lol

I'm just conveying what was shared with me. Guess I should have taken what was shared with me and folded it nicely into my breast pocket unshared.

BTW it came from a scientist who was on the team that directly developed oil-spill-eating microbes years and years ago. Am I going to share his name? I wouldn't put him under that kind of r2r-flavored scrutiny tbh....

Brutus was the murderer, and a few others

 

[ZoWhat]

Brutus was the murderer, and a few others

Caesar just collected taxes....same as a murderer in some circles

 

[Midrats]

Caesar just collected taxes....same as a murderer in some circles

Someone had to pay for all that awesome infrastructure!

 

[SillyReef]

So what's the use yo?

 

[MnFish1]

I say everyone sell their reefs and take up drinking

You can still keep your reef and do those

 

[Miami Reef]

My definition of success is to have my live rocks look like this. That’s when I know I did a good job. Are my expectations reasonable?

 

[TiggMG]

What are everyone's thoughts on replenishing bacteria by using the Aquaforest Life Force? Mud from the ocean. I have never used it, but I did just order some.