why is so little known by hobbyist about 80+ strains of bacteria

[ZoWhat]

I was talking to a marine biochemist not too long ago, and they said a successful reef tank has a lot to do with 1) cultivating 80+ strains of bacteria over SEVERAL cycles/months, and 2) continual cultivating of these bacterial strains cycle to cycle

Why is so little info known to hobbyists? Seems like the breakthrough moment for great coral growth/color is when all these strains are present and thriving in one's tank...

Why hasn't an industry reef company like SeaChem, Research, Brightwell, etc developed a bacteria-in-a-bottle solution to help achieve all these strains?

Why isn't there an ICP test to show which strains are missing or low?

.

 

[CoralNerd]

Why isn't there an ICP test to show which strains are missing or low?

Take a peak at this site and look for their articles. There's also a few YouTube videos the most recent one with ReefDudes.

AquaBiomics

Microbiome testing for aquariums and aquaculture

aquabiomics.com

 

[WheatToast]

I was talking to a marine biochemist not too long ago, and they said a successful reef tank has a lot to do with 1) cultivating 80+ strains of bacteria over SEVERAL cycles/months, and 2) continual cultivating of these bacterial strains cycle to cycle

Why is so little info known to hobbyists? Seems like the breakthrough moment for great coral growth/color is when all these strains are present and thriving in one's tank...

Why hasn't an industry reef company like SeaChem, Research, Brightwell, etc developed a bacteria-in-a-bottle solution to help achieve all these strains?

Why isn't there an ICP test to show which strains are missing or low?

.

I agree that biodiversity is very much welcome in our systems, but I have this to say...
Don't quote me on this, but a "bacteria-in-a-bottle solution" really does not seem feasible considering how each different bacteria would likely have different habitat /care requirements. It would be much more effective to introduce a variety of ocean live rock, ocean live sand, and ocean live mud (and similar "wildish" products) to elevate biodiversity in a marine system. In that respect, these following companies/sources come closest to having what you are looking for:
Tampa Bay Saltwater (Live rock, Live sand)
Gulf Live Rock (Live rock, Live sand)
KP Aquatics (Live rock)
Salty Bottom Reef Company (Live rock, Live sand)
Live Rock N Reef (Live rock, Live sand)
GARF STORE (Live sand)
Indo-Pacific Sea Farms (Live sand, Live mud)
Gulf Specimen Marine Laboratory (Live sand)
FloridaPets (Live sand, Live mud)
Aquaforest (Live mud)
Cairns Marine (Live rock)
Addictive Reef Keeping (Live rock, Live sand)
Pacific East Aquaculture (Live sand)
eBay (Live rock, Live sand, Live mud)
And many more...

The more popular live sand sellers are not included as I am pretty sure their "live sand" is regular dry sand infused with a limited number of nitrifying bacteria strains.

 

[jhuntstl]

I agree that biodiversity is very much welcome in our systems, but I have this to say...
Don't quote me on this, but a "bacteria-in-a-bottle solution" really does not seem feasible considering how each different bacteria would likely have different habitat /care requirements. It would be much more effective to introduce a variety of ocean live rock, ocean live sand, and ocean live mud (and similar "wildish" products) to elevate biodiversity in a marine system. In that respect, these following companies/sources come closest to having what you are looking for:
Tampa Bay Saltwater (Live rock, Live sand)
Gulf Live Rock (Live rock, Live sand)
KP Aquatics (Live rock)
Salty Bottom Reef Company (Live rock, Live sand)
Live Rock N Reef (Live rock, Live sand)
GARF STORE (Live sand)
Indo-Pacific Sea Farms (Live sand, Live mud)
Gulf Specimen Marine Laboratory (Live sand)
FloridaPets (Live sand, Live mud)
Aquaforest (Live mud)
Cairns Marine (Live rock)
Addictive Reef Keeping (Live rock, Live sand)
eBay (Live rock, Live sand, Live mud)
And many more...

The more popular live sand sellers are not included as I am pretty sure their "live sand" is regular dry sand infused with a limited number of nitrifying bacteria strains.

This is a good post to bookmark. Thanks!

 

[JNalley]

The more popular live sand sellers are not included as I am pretty sure their "live sand" is regular dry sand infused with a limited number of nitrifying bacteria strains.

I would say this is true for most, but CaribSea has 2 different product lines.

Arag-Alive which is the rinsed, dried, and then packed with nitrifying bacteria (freshwater variety bacteria so not that beneficial)

and

OceanDirect which is straight from the ocean floor and is legitimate live sand, never rinsed, nothing added, nothing taken away, not even sifted I don't believe.

Edit: Here's a video about it by BRS

 

[HuduVudu]

I was talking to a marine biochemist not too long ago, and they said a successful reef tank has a lot to do with 1) cultivating 80+ strains of bacteria over SEVERAL cycles/months, and 2) continual cultivating of these bacterial strains cycle to cycle

Why is so little info known to hobbyists? Seems like the breakthrough moment for great coral growth/color is when all these strains are present and thriving in one's tank...

Why hasn't an industry reef company like SeaChem, Research, Brightwell, etc developed a bacteria-in-a-bottle solution to help achieve all these strains?

Why isn't there an ICP test to show which strains are missing or low?

.

Because obtaining actual live rock from the ocean is easy to obtain and relatively cheap.

There are hitchhikers yes, but they are well known and there is a TON of information on identification and eradication techniques.

 

[BeltedCoyote]

I agree that biodiversity is very much welcome in our systems, but I have this to say...
Don't quote me on this, but a "bacteria-in-a-bottle solution" really does not seem feasible considering how each different bacteria would likely have different habitat /care requirements. It would be much more effective to introduce a variety of ocean live rock, ocean live sand, and ocean live mud (and similar "wildish" products) to elevate biodiversity in a marine system. In that respect, these following companies/sources come closest to having what you are looking for:
Tampa Bay Saltwater (Live rock, Live sand)
Gulf Live Rock (Live rock, Live sand)
KP Aquatics (Live rock)
Salty Bottom Reef Company (Live rock, Live sand)
Live Rock N Reef (Live rock, Live sand)
GARF STORE (Live sand)
Indo-Pacific Sea Farms (Live sand, Live mud)
Gulf Specimen Marine Laboratory (Live sand)
FloridaPets (Live sand, Live mud)
Aquaforest (Live mud)
Cairns Marine (Live rock)
Addictive Reef Keeping (Live rock, Live sand)
Pacific East Aquaculture (Live sand)
eBay (Live rock, Live sand, Live mud)
And many more...

The more popular live sand sellers are not included as I am pretty sure their "live sand" is regular dry sand infused with a limited number of nitrifying bacteria strains.

Excellent post. Wish I had this when I started out. Got some KP now and it’s a treasure. Didn’t know there were that many vendors overall for live substrate and rock.

definitely bookmarking this M. Toast

 

[ZoWhat]

@WheatToast

Tell me more about Live Mud from various suppliers

 

[BeltedCoyote]

As to your question @zoa what idk what other new reefers have experienced. But for myself, there simply isnt a focus on microfauna diversity. More than that, it’s almost never talked about by any of the main sources of info for people trying to learn and research about this hobby.

well, that was my experience. BRS was all about dry rock and no “pests” in their informational content. Most YouTube content creators are documenting their own experience and progression in reef keeping, or else touring livestock facilities or reviewing tech.

nothing wrong with that. Just is what it is. I’m on team the-more-microbial/microfauna-diversity-the-better. But that’s after having two years to research the crap out of the hobby…

 

[Nano sapiens]

Why hasn't an industry reef company like SeaChem, Research, Brightwell, etc developed a bacteria-in-a-bottle solution to help achieve all these strains?

Because the vast majority of these bacteria can't be successfully cultivated in a lab,

Why isn't there an ICP test to show which strains are missing or low?

.

An Aquabiomics (https://aquabiomics.com/) test will show which genera are present, their relative abundance and other noteworthy info.

Problem is many bacteria can do the same job depending on the conditions, so trying to say 'You must have these 80 strains for success' is really just saying 'Have lots of bacteria/archaea biodiversity'.

 

[MnFish1]

@zoa what I would be interested in @AquaBiomics answer to this question - since they have indeed a test to measure the bacterial genome in a tank. I'm not sure I believe as much as your marine biochemist about 80 strains of bacteria. Maybe he could point you to some data from reef tanks that suggest this? I sent my tank water into Aquabiomics - and the 'diversity' was - from one part of the tank - among the highest of all tanks tested, yet another part of the same tank was lower. So - I'd be interested in any data from your friend. (BTW - my tank was started with Dry Rock). My hypothesis is that bacterial diversity is added when we add stuff (coral, fish, CUC) to our tanks - as compared to bottled bacteria (depending on the product)

 

[Dan_P]

I was talking to a marine biochemist not too long ago, and they said a successful reef tank has a lot to do with 1) cultivating 80+ strains of bacteria over SEVERAL cycles/months, and 2) continual cultivating of these bacterial strains cycle to cycle

Why is so little info known to hobbyists? Seems like the breakthrough moment for great coral growth/color is when all these strains are present and thriving in one's tank...

Why hasn't an industry reef company like SeaChem, Research, Brightwell, etc developed a bacteria-in-a-bottle solution to help achieve all these strains?

Why isn't there an ICP test to show which strains are missing or low?

.

Some questions..

What is a successful reef tank?
What is the basis for the assertion that 80 bacteria strains are involved or needed?
What is the meaning of “cycle to cycle”?

 

[ZoWhat]

Some questions..

What is a successful reef tank?
What is the basis for the assertion that 80 bacteria strains are involved or needed?
What is the meaning of “cycle to cycle”?

The bigger question is what is Reef2Reef?
The area of water in between two reefs?
Why is it a forum on an electronic platform that Al Gore invented?

 

[BeltedCoyote]

The bigger question is what is Reef2Reef?
The area of water in between two reefs?
Why is it a forum on an electronic platform that Al Gore invented?

 

[jgirardnrg]

I was talking to a marine biochemist not too long ago, and they said a successful reef tank has a lot to do with 1) cultivating 80+ strains of bacteria over SEVERAL cycles/months, and 2) continual cultivating of these bacterial strains cycle to cycle

Why is so little info known to hobbyists? Seems like the breakthrough moment for great coral growth/color is when all these strains are present and thriving in one's tank...

Why hasn't an industry reef company like SeaChem, Research, Brightwell, etc developed a bacteria-in-a-bottle solution to help achieve all these strains?

Why isn't there an ICP test to show which strains are missing or low?

.

@zoa what asking the hard questions... great topic, tagging along for this one.

 

[Dan_P]

The bigger question is what is Reef2Reef?
The area of water in between two reefs?
Why is it a forum on an electronic platform that Al Gore invented?

I agree, it is pretty much nonsense.

 

[jgirardnrg]

 

[BeltedCoyote]

Came for discussion about bacteria and why it’s not a bigger topic in hobby.
staying for the unexpected nihilistically leaning ontological questions

 

[WheatToast]

@WheatToast

Tell me more about Live Mud from various suppliers

Got it! Here is my experience:

IPSF WonderMud
- similar in color to aragonite sand
- comes packaged with six Hawaiian Littorinid Grazers (Littoraria sp.), six MicroHermits (Calcinus sp.), and probably a few amphipods
- aquacultured, according to IPSF, in a system connected to the ocean

eBay Miracle Mangrove Mud
- dark, soil colored silt
- several contaminants including Mangrove leaves, Mangrove roots, wood flakes, and plastic
- was definitely collected somewhere in the wild

eBay Live Mineral Mud
- clay-like coloration, darker than IPSF WonderMud and lighter than eBay Miracle Mangrove Mud
- jagged aragonite rubble mixed in

In general, with the exception of the purposely added crabs and snails in the IPSF WonderMud, there was not much “macro” life in any of the muds (but I would assume that bacterial diversity was much greater). Their fine particles compact easily, so even in shallow layers of the mud, anaerobic zones can form within an inch of the surface. Additionally, I have found that my Baby Bristle Worms and Mama Mia worms from IPSF love to burrow into mud.

 

[Chrisv.]

Some questions..

What is a successful reef tank?

Really?? Really?????