OP
OP
Chlorinated
Well-Known Member
I get it. I understand that unfortunately it seems to have become an unavoidable reality...im just saying it shouldn't be this way and I shouldn't be shamed for saying so
Why oh why...did i got to Petco for fish???
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92Miata
Valuable Member
Again, getting sick fish from petco doesn't mean they treat their fish poorly.
Seriously, go visit an lfs on truck day. Take a look at the bags before they get opened. You'll see chromis with holes in their sides. Fish with ick. Just plain dead fish.
Shipping fish from southeast asia in a manner where they can be sold for $20 and be healthy is really hard.
The point is if you want guaranteed healthy animals free of disease and genetic defect you don't go to a typical pet store. You pay more to get it and find a breeder or specially store. Otherwise you are just taking a 'chance' and hoping the animal you bought happens to be ok.
They could have thw best care in the world but a parasite like velvet or brook isn't going to care. They bring in new fish probably once or twice a week which are from the ocean which is full of parasites.
If every store QT every fish fully...then prices would be way way up and plenty of people would be priced right out of the hobby vs a bucket and a bottle of copper or peroxide.
If people are priced out of the hobby then the local store closes and that isn't good for the hobby.
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Forgive the diplomacy, but agree with all of it. The OP has been told, but it's our duty to tell him in a manner that he will be receptive to. That's the best for both parties. Again, let's not play like we've never broken quarantine early and felt the consequences. Sorry for the broken posts.
Biglew11
Valuable Member
We're not ok with buying sick fish, that's why we ask to watch them eat, we look for the fastest healthiest specimen In the tank. It has been said over and over that even the healthiest fish can carry a disease and not show it. Moving a fish is stressful to it, diseases show up, that's how and why quarantining works, the disease shows up on individual fish away from the display tank. If you can't or won't quarantine don't blame the store for you introducing pathogens to your tank. Or you can pay five times as much for pre quarantined fish and not have to worry about it. As many have said even a small 5 gallon tank can work for quarantine.
Sorry to hear that! The only options I have found are qt tank, or spend the extra money on fish that you know were properly qt’d. Even a cheap 5 gallon tank is enough to qt small fish. Personally, I qt fish and inverts and I dip coral. I have lost fish to velvet that looked ok, because I didn’t put the copper in the qt tank. Good luck!
HotRocks
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I agree it shouldn't be this way. The reality is the cost and complication of setting up a large volume distribution facility in order to maintain disease free fish is nearly impossible. The frequency of inbound and outbound shipments make it so difficult due to the fact that the main treatment needed takes a minimum of 2 weeks to perform (Copper to rid ich/velvet). As well as the separation that is required for the different phases of a solid protocol combined with x number of employees working on all the different systems under one roof. Logistically its near impossible. Then Prazi for deworming is another 10 days or so. The larger wholesalers on the West coast who supply the big box and small mom and pop LFS see hundreds of fish arrive and depart daily. Most fish probably aren't even held there long enough to treat with a proper QT protocol.
So that leaves us with the task of treating them ourselves or purchasing from a smaller seller that orders the fish via wholesale and runs them through a solid protocol and then observes them for a short period of time in order to make sure the fish are disease free and healthy before selling them and shipping out. Some LFS are great some are not so great. We have one here in town that runs therapeutic copper on all systems but again unless the fish stay with the LFS for at least 14 days there is no guarantee that they are disease free when you pick them up. Some LFS just run a light dose or subtherapeutic level of copper which is even worse because the fish all appear healthy, yet they are still infected.
Petco specifically has strict rules that employees are NOT allowed to medicate even sick fish which is probably for the best unless they place a saltwater specialist in each store that is equipped to deal with it properly. A lot of these medications are poisonous to fish and an overdose in medication can kill the fish. Depending on which type of copper you use, the therapeutic dose needed to kill the parasites is just slightly lower than the lethal dose. It should be done in a very controlled environment with the proper equipment to monitor the Cu level accurately on a daily basis.
Certain genus/species of fish are more susceptible to certain parasites than others so personally I keep a wide variety of fish and prophylactically treat all my fish as they arrive for all disease and then observe for a couple of weeks post treatment before adding them to a permanent display.
For your specific situation you could use a 5g QT sitting on a dresser or counter in order to QT a couple of clownfish pretty easily. Brook treatment is pretty simple and if all you ever desire to keep is clowns that is the main thing that needs addressed. Brook can be treated a couple of different ways. I would allow your current DT to be fallow for the next six weeks in order to rid it of the brook that is currently present. If you need any help moving forward feel free to reach out anytime and I would be glad to assist where possible. Or if you decide to go fallow for 6 weeks and order a pair of clowns from a Pre-QT seller that may be an option for you as well if you just cant make a second tank work temporarily. Best of luck!
Brooklynella
Brooklynella hostilis What You Need To Know: * This is most often seen in clownfish, but it can afflict any fish. The fish’s skin will appear to be peeling or sloughing off, oftentimes causing excessive white mucous to form around the affected area(s). * Treatment of choice is a 45 minute...
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OP
OP
Chlorinated
Well-Known Member
Thank you so much for your thoughtful reply. Reaching out nowI agree it shouldn't be this way. The reality is the cost and complication of setting up a large volume distribution facility in order to maintain disease free fish is nearly impossible. The frequency of inbound and outbound shipments make it so difficult due to the fact that the main treatment needed takes a minimum of 2 weeks to perform (Copper to rid ich/velvet). As well as the separation that is required for the different phases of a solid protocol combined with x number of employees working on all the different systems under one roof. Logistically its near impossible. Then Prazi for deworming is another 10 days or so. The larger wholesalers on the West coast who supply the big box and small mom and pop LFS see hundreds of fish arrive and depart daily. Most fish probably aren't even held there long enough to treat with a proper QT protocol.
So that leaves us with the task of treating them ourselves or purchasing from a smaller seller that orders the fish via wholesale and runs them through a solid protocol and then observes them for a short period of time in order to make sure the fish are disease free and healthy before selling them and shipping out. Some LFS are great some are not so great. We have one here in town that runs therapeutic copper on all systems but again unless the fish stay with the LFS for at least 14 days there is no guarantee that they are disease free when you pick them up. Some LFS just run a light dose or subtherapeutic level of copper which is even worse because the fish all appear healthy, yet they are still infected.
Petco specifically has strict rules that employees are NOT allowed to medicate even sick fish which is probably for the best unless they place a saltwater specialist in each store that is equipped to deal with it properly. A lot of these medications are poisonous to fish and an overdose in medication can kill the fish. Depending on which type of copper you use, the therapeutic dose needed to kill the parasites is just slightly lower than the lethal dose. It should be done in a very controlled environment with the proper equipment to monitor the Cu level accurately on a daily basis.
Certain genus/species of fish are more susceptible to certain parasites than others so personally I keep a wide variety of fish and prophylactically treat all my fish as they arrive for all disease and then observe for a couple of weeks post treatment before adding them to a permanent display.
For your specific situation you could use a 5g QT sitting on a dresser or counter in order to QT a couple of clownfish pretty easily. Brook treatment is pretty simple and if all you ever desire to keep is clowns that is the main thing that needs addressed. Brook can be treated a couple of different ways. I would allow your current DT to be fallow for the next six weeks in order to rid it of the brook that is currently present. If you need any help moving forward feel free to reach out anytime and I would be glad to assist where possible. Or if you decide to go fallow for 6 weeks and order a pair of clowns from a Pre-QT seller that may be an option for you as well if you just cant make a second tank work temporarily. Best of luck!
Brooklynella
Brooklynella hostilis What You Need To Know: * This is most often seen in clownfish, but it can afflict any fish. The fish’s skin will appear to be peeling or sloughing off, oftentimes causing excessive white mucous to form around the affected area(s). * Treatment of choice is a 45 minute...
Well, OP you have the evil truth of this hobby. We the end customer must be the responsible person at the end of the chain. Everyone else is just in it for the money. No store will care if one fish dies or your entire system crashes. It’s up to YOU to make sure that doesn’t happen.
Sucks you lost your fish, treat it as a lesson learned. I promise you, this hobby will throw many more curve balls at you, if you let it. The key is to educate yourself and take as many precautions as possible. If those precautions can’t be taken then expect consequences.
Sucks you lost your fish, treat it as a lesson learned. I promise you, this hobby will throw many more curve balls at you, if you let it. The key is to educate yourself and take as many precautions as possible. If those precautions can’t be taken then expect consequences.
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Zagecko
Active Member
In my experience fish that were wild caught actually have a better immunity to diseases. And I think since your goby had been adapted to aquarium life it had no immunity to diseases. But if they had Brookenella then there was almost no hope. My fish had Brookenella and my kole tang, hippo tang, 4 clownfish, and jawfish caught it but only 1 survived. My fish are fine now but 1 has fungus. On his tail. I know it looks like ick but that is his natural pattern.
Threads take on a life of their own, and sometimes the intentions of the OP aren't popular to the masses.
To try and mobilize the rabble rousers and force a change in the industry when ultimately it's up to us to ensure fish health isn't going to be widely accepted.
To think that if collectors and wholesalers changed their entire process would guarantee healthy fish is naive. But that doesn't mean that those guys get a free pass, the conditions can definitely be better, but as already pointed out, it's not going to happen. And if it did, the cost would be passed onto us and eventually the holding tanks at collections sites and wholesalers would once again become this petri dish of disease and parasites, ultimately the final result being an increase in fish cost with no change to fish health.
Great intentions but unfortunately not a viable solution.
To try and mobilize the rabble rousers and force a change in the industry when ultimately it's up to us to ensure fish health isn't going to be widely accepted.
To think that if collectors and wholesalers changed their entire process would guarantee healthy fish is naive. But that doesn't mean that those guys get a free pass, the conditions can definitely be better, but as already pointed out, it's not going to happen. And if it did, the cost would be passed onto us and eventually the holding tanks at collections sites and wholesalers would once again become this petri dish of disease and parasites, ultimately the final result being an increase in fish cost with no change to fish health.
Great intentions but unfortunately not a viable solution.
92Miata
Valuable Member
If they're only a 50% markup, they're being done in groups.
Which increases the risk substantially because there's risk of intra-group transfer - but is still way better than just buying fish and throwing them in your tank.
From how I understand it, they operate on a request basis. You tell them what fish you want, they get em and start the qt process.
The costs seems comparable to live aquaria prices. The downside is there's a wait time for the process.
The costs seems comparable to live aquaria prices. The downside is there's a wait time for the process.
OK so, Petco is large and sells a lot of fish. There will be people that get sick fish and these people will come to a forum like this to voice their opinion. Petco threads come up every few months, its only natural and not unusual given the large customer base.
That said, I've bought from them on multiple occasions, and if I was to go strictly by numbers I've had great success with them beat only by Absolutely Fish in NJ (different price point and distance).
I take certain precautions and dip all fish in Hydroplex upon arrival and acclimation (my new QT station hasn't been fully set up yet) I look at all livestock in the same system. I ask the clerk when they've arrived. Out of 8 fish I bought within the past 2 years from Petco, I only lost 2 and that's not due to Petco's fault. One leopard wrasse went carpet surfing and a stripped blenny was hiding in powerhead after cleaning and became fish food when I plugged the powerhead back in - felt terrible.
All in all, with certain precautions; there are great gems at low prices that can be found at their store. For me, it's next to Home Depot so I take a peek as to what's available every time I shop at the Big Orange.
That said, I've bought from them on multiple occasions, and if I was to go strictly by numbers I've had great success with them beat only by Absolutely Fish in NJ (different price point and distance).
I take certain precautions and dip all fish in Hydroplex upon arrival and acclimation (my new QT station hasn't been fully set up yet) I look at all livestock in the same system. I ask the clerk when they've arrived. Out of 8 fish I bought within the past 2 years from Petco, I only lost 2 and that's not due to Petco's fault. One leopard wrasse went carpet surfing and a stripped blenny was hiding in powerhead after cleaning and became fish food when I plugged the powerhead back in - felt terrible.
All in all, with certain precautions; there are great gems at low prices that can be found at their store. For me, it's next to Home Depot so I take a peek as to what's available every time I shop at the Big Orange.
What he is saying is that fish from any store can carry disease. I've seen LFS that just always have ick. Buying fish from nearly every source carries a risk of bringing in disease, not just Petco.
Without a full quarantine or a least a dip you take a gamble buying a fish - from any place.
OP
OP
Chlorinated
Well-Known Member
any vendors you suggest?
Philip Chin
Active Member
I purchased quite a few of tank raised Bagaii Cardinals with no issues. It depends on the Petco.
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