Would you sell a fish knowing or feeling it is to big for the intended tank?

[hdsoftail1065]

Sometimes this hobby can be a mental challenge...ok, let's rephrase...this hobby IS a mental challenge. We have a tendency to really care for our pets and even cringe when we walk into stores and see sick fish, sigh and walk away sad.

I had 3 fish that I couldn't put into my system that I had to sale. One of which is a 6" hippo. Absolutely stunning fish! But I have one in my tank already. The gentleman that just picked up my extra male lyretail and a yellow stripe maroon wanted to buy the tang pretty bad. Most local fish stores would have seen a chance for a sale and not batted an eye or asked any questions. I asked what size tank he had and he responded a 100 gallon (the fish came out of a 125). Naturally based on the size of the fish and the size of the tank I refused to sale it to him.

So, was this the right choice or wrong choice.

I believe I made an ethical decision.

What would you do? Where do you draw the line?

 

[Antics]

I don't think you're wrong or right in that instance. Everyone has their own husbandry practices. I think most people would agree a 6" hippo is too large for a 100 gallon tank though.

 

[Goodair]

If you inform the person that it isn't recommended, if they really want it, they will get it elsewhere regardless imo. Most fish don't live as long as they should and that's the sad truth.

 

[Goodair]

You did nothing wrong though, you want a proper home for the tang, and eventually you will find one.

 

[Darth.Daddy12]

It’s relative really. At 6” it’s getting to that size where it should have 6’ tank. But what has more swimming room a 6’ 125 packed full of rock or a 4’ 100 with a few small islands? If you really want to have this discussion then is it ethical to keep any tang at all as they swim miles every day and we put them into 4-5-6-7-8’ Boxes...

I wouldn’t have been so concerned with the tank being 100g as I would have the experience of the person and their knowledge and care habits. I’ll put a hippo in a 40 well cared for over a 400g that is falling apart..

 

[motortrendz]

There's a difference between ethical and financial. So we may or may not sell something so someone bc ethically it isnt right, fish too big, person too inexperienced, etc... but then on the flip side they will find someone who wont bat an eye and sell them whatever they want bc they're in it for the money. And they'll resell it to them after it dies and they come back for a replacement. Lol. There's a fine line in this hobby. Bc for some it is a business and a way of life. For others these pets become part of a family and we treat them as good as we would a dog or cat.

Me personally have refused to sell fish and coral to people o felt weren't ready or their systems weren't right. I've also tried to help them get the knowledge and the right equipment to be able to care for what they wanted. But I also knew if they really wanted that coral or fish they'd find it...
I've been in stores that I hear people say they had the tank up for 3 weeks and wanted a clown and a nem and watched the sales man say sure no problem and sell them 300$ in clowns and a nem we all know probably didn't last a week. So it's sad. But its reality.

 

[CindyKz]

If it felt like the right decision then it was the right decision. You have to sleep with yourself at night. It is good to see people stand by their principles.

 

[Darth.Daddy12]

There's a difference between ethical and financial. So we may or may not sell something so someone bc ethically it isnt right, fish too big, person too inexperienced, etc... but then on the flip side they will find someone who wont bat an eye and sell them whatever they want bc they're in it for the money. And they'll resell it to them after it dies and they come back for a replacement. Lol. There's a fine line in this hobby. Bc for some it is a business and a way of life. For others these pets become part of a family and we treat them as good as we would a dog or cat.

Me personally have refused to sell fish and coral to people o felt weren't ready or their systems weren't right. I've also tried to help them get the knowledge and the right equipment to be able to care for what they wanted. But I also knew if they really wanted that coral or fish they'd find it...
I've been in stores that I hear people say they had the tank up for 3 weeks and wanted a clown and a nem and watched the sales man say sure no problem and sell them 300$ in clowns and a nem we all know probably didn't last a week. So it's sad. But its reality.

Or that person setup a system with wet rock and live sand and the system is more then able to handle the load. We are too quick to judge wo asking the important questions. Should a hippo be in a 4’ tank? Not really. But not anymore then it should be in a 6’ tank either. Who’s to decide what size tank is right for what fish? I can have a 40 breeder with more open swim room then a 400g stocked to the brim with corals and rock. You can also I current to the point the fish can swim into it for hours and it be equal to swimming miles in open water. Long as the tank is healthy I see no issue. None of us have 400gal qt tanks but we don’t find issue with placing the same fish in a 20l for months on end before putting into our display either. Is this more ethical to move a fish from tank to tank to tank no matter what size the end tank may be? I have not issue putting any size fish into any size tank for a period of time. Most of my fish go into a pico 10g before moving to a 40 breeder before moving to my 210. I have a baby hippo siting in a 10g as I type this. Is that ethical? It’s about ready to move into my 40g is that ethical either? Is keeping 20 fish in 125gal Fowler ethical? How about 30?

I fail to see how a 125 is any more “ethical” then a 100 based on size alone. There are other variables that are much much more important then an extra 2’ of swim room. The buyer could have had the cleanest 100g around and seller the dirtiest 125g. Where do we draw the line?

This boils down to personal option and antidotal results more then anything. I’ve seen plenty of well respected people keeping tangs in what would be considered too small of a tank but the fish is thriving and happy. Who am I, who are you, who are we to dictate what is ethical or not really? Re are already being in ethical housing fish in small boxes from the start. Taking issue over 25g that can quickly be negated based on sand and scape making tanks equal isn’t worth the debate really. Personally I’d sell any fish to any person who I feel understands the needs and issues of that fish coral shrimp etc.. the thing is all we can do is try with wat we have. We will never be able to provide any fish with an environment as durable as nature. Is that ethical?

If I got a bad vibe I wouldn’t have sold that person anything. The fact is 2/3 live stock we sold no questions.. so I find it extremely biased and unethical to have either sold the first two to an unqualified person or having not sold the third to a well qualified person. Tank size doesn’t even factor into the top 10 for me on this..

 

[saltyhog]

Don't feel guilty for doing the right thing! There are all kinds of ways to rationalize letting him have it but you did him and the fish a favor.

 

[motortrendz]

Or that person setup a system with wet rock and live sand and the system is more then able to handle the load. We are too quick to judge wo asking the important questions. Should a hippo be in a 4’ tank? Not really. But not anymore then it should be in a 6’ tank either. Who’s to decide what size tank is right for what fish? I can have a 40 breeder with more open swim room then a 400g stocked to the brim with corals and rock. You can also I current to the point the fish can swim into it for hours and it be equal to swimming miles in open water. Long as the tank is healthy I see no issue. None of us have 400gal qt tanks but we don’t find issue with placing the same fish in a 20l for months on end before putting into our display either. Is this more ethical to move a fish from tank to tank to tank no matter what size the end tank may be? I have not issue putting any size fish into any size tank for a period of time. Most of my fish go into a pico 10g before moving to a 40 breeder before moving to my 210. I have a baby hippo siting in a 10g as I type this. Is that ethical? It’s about ready to move into my 40g is that ethical either? Is keeping 20 fish in 125gal Fowler ethical? How about 30?

I fail to see how a 125 is any more “ethical” then a 100 based on size alone. There are other variables that are much much more important then an extra 2’ of swim room. The buyer could have had the cleanest 100g around and seller the dirtiest 125g. Where do we draw the line?

This boils down to personal option and antidotal results more then anything. I’ve seen plenty of well respected people keeping tangs in what would be considered too small of a tank but the fish is thriving and happy. Who am I, who are you, who are we to dictate what is ethical or not really? Re are already being in ethical housing fish in small boxes from the start. Taking issue over 25g that can quickly be negated based on sand and scape making tanks equal isn’t worth the debate really. Personally I’d sell any fish to any person who I feel understands the needs and issues of that fish coral shrimp etc.. the thing is all we can do is try with wat we have. We will never be able to provide any fish with an environment as durable as nature. Is that ethical?

If I got a bad vibe I wouldn’t have sold that person anything. The fact is 2/3 live stock we sold no questions.. so I find it extremely biased and unethical to have either sold the first two to an unqualified person or having not sold the third to a well qualified person. Tank size doesn’t even factor into the top 10 for me on this..

Nothing I said equated to tank size... I said equipment and knowledge. And again it was my opinion.
I defintly keep fish that others would say are too big. But yet they're happy fat and healthy. So I wasnt speaking about 2 ft of tank space per say. My opinion again was that if someone didn't have the knowledge to take care of something or the equipment to properly care for things I would try to help them get set up properly first. It's about the hobby not about the sale or money to me

 

[Darth.Daddy12]

Nothing I said equated to tank size... I said equipment and knowledge. And again it was my opinion.
I defintly keep fish that others would say are too big. But yet they're happy fat and healthy. So I wasnt speaking about 2 ft of tank space per say. My opinion again was that if someone didn't have the knowledge to take care of something or the equipment to properly care for things I would try to help them get set up properly first. It's about the hobby not about the sale or money to me

I agree . it’s about knowledge not size or money. I must have mis understood your view point previously.

To the mod.. the simple fact you are questioning 1/3 of the sale bothers me. Are those other two less deserving of a good home? From my view you’re looking for validation of your actions and I’m sorry I can’t orovide that cause from posts I first question if the 2 items sold should have been if you felt the need to deny the third.

 

[hdsoftail1065]

Great feedback and thanks everyone for responding! In my mind I done the right thing for "me and the fish" at that moment in time. We all know there is more than one way to run a reef tank and we all have different opinions and views. I respect everyone's opinion even if I don't always agree just like you don't always agree. I feel its the different opinions and methods that drives changes and improvements to our hobby. In this case the dicision I made was based on knowing the size of the fish, what size tank he was in and me having a visual image of his home shrinking. I do not know the gentleman on a personal level nor do I know what his system is like or his skill level in the hobby.

I do know he is a nice guy that is fairly new and learning just like the rest of us.

Again, you are a great group of people and thank you for responding and sharing your opinions. Happy reefing my friends!

 

[Darth.Daddy12]

Great feedback and thanks everyone for responding! In my mind I done the right thing for "me and the fish" at that moment in time. We all know there is more than one way to run a reef tank and we all have different opinions and views. I respect everyone's opinion even if I don't always agree just like you don't always agree. I feel its the different opinions and methods that drives changes and improvements to our hobby. In this case the dicision I made was based on knowing the size of the fish, what size tank he was in and me having a visual image of his home shrinking. I do not know the gentleman on a personal level nor do I know what his system is like or his skill level in the hobby.

I do know he is a nice guy that is fairly new and learning just like the rest of us.

Again, you are a great group of people and thank you for responding and sharing your opinions. Happy reefing my friends!

Sleeping at night is all that matters really. But hope you understood my devils advocate side of the conversation too. For me I’m willing to sell everything or nothing to a person based on what I feel Thier knowledge level is. Nothing more. That said I Almost never sell fish privately and I never buy them or corals that way. I’ll sell to my lfs even for pennies of the value for store credits I put towards other things cause trust them. In fact I don’t even qt fish or corals from them. I place them into a smaller tank to acclimate first before moving into my displays. My preferred lfs are super clean and they let me examine any tank setup and even test Thier water innsaid tank if I wish. (Used to do this so I could try and match water for qt tanks and slowest adjust them to mine.) I’ve since adjusted my tanks to Thier levels and just drop them in lol. Not every lfs is so good but I love mine. The manager takes it serious even moved his personal pride display into the store which has been setup as a show piece. I also have the benefit that wwc is only an hour from me as well lol.

Off topic now but long as you can defend your choice and sleep on it that really all that matters end of the day. I just wanted to point out that in a sense we are all being unethical to someone just by keeping fish and corals period. So taking a step back and looking more so at the person rather then the tank should be the determining factor not the size of the tank per say.

 

[Squeaky McMurdo]

Footprint of the tank matters too. For example, my 50 gallon is better for quarantining larger fish than my 60 because it’s 18 inches back to front instead of 11.

 

[Jay Z]

100% you made the right call.

Only reason your questioning it is because your a good person. Bad people take the money and don’t think twice. Good people struggle with decisions like this because by not selling the fish you feel you disappointed the buyer or a tad guilty.

It’s a good dilemma to have.

 

[Jon Fishman]

I think you did the guy a favor

 

[Brew12]

In my mind I done the right thing for "me and the fish" at that moment in time.

I think this is the most important part. Our fish are in our care and we should care for them to the best of our ability. If you weren't comfortable making the sale then not selling it was the right answer. Had you sold it and it didn't work out you would have felt bad about it. You did the right thing.

As for the question of if a 6" hippo belongs in a 100g tanks, I fall into the camp that layout matters.

I can have a 40 breeder with more open swim room then a 400g stocked to the brim with corals and rock. You can also I current to the point the fish can swim into it for hours and it be equal to swimming miles in open water. Long as the tank is healthy I see no issue.

I agree with this completely. The layout of the tank is very important. I have an 8" Hippo in a 5' tank. He does just fine. Half my tank is very open for swimming, along with the front of the other half. Combine this with the fact I use gyre flow instead of random variable flow and the fish is doing great.

 

[hdsoftail1065]

Sleeping at night is all that matters really. But hope you understood my devils advocate side of the conversation too. For me I’m willing to sell everything or nothing to a person based on what I feel Thier knowledge level is. Nothing more. That said I Almost never sell fish privately and I never buy them or corals that way. I’ll sell to my lfs even for pennies of the value for store credits I put towards other things cause trust them. In fact I don’t even qt fish or corals from them. I place them into a smaller tank to acclimate first before moving into my displays. My preferred lfs are super clean and they let me examine any tank setup and even test Thier water innsaid tank if I wish. (Used to do this so I could try and match water for qt tanks and slowest adjust them to mine.) I’ve since adjusted my tanks to Thier levels and just drop them in lol. Not every lfs is so good but I love mine. The manager takes it serious even moved his personal pride display into the store which has been setup as a show piece. I also have the benefit that wwc is only an hour from me as well lol.

Off topic now but long as you can defend your choice and sleep on it that really all that matters end of the day. I just wanted to point out that in a sense we are all being unethical to someone just by keeping fish and corals period. So taking a step back and looking more so at the person rather then the tank should be the determining factor not the size of the tank per say.

I appreciate the devil's advocate side, thank you my friend!
I also have that one fish store that I buy all of my fish from due to velvet wipeouts when I was going ape crazy and buying from multiple stores. Buying from multiple places I had no way of knowing where the disease came from (not that it matters when you get hit). I thought I would change my strategy and focus on one reliable store. I had my tank stocked with some beauties and I thought I would slip in my last 3 additions to complete my stocking plan. Guess what, not only did I get hit and loose 40% of my fish, the lfs owner lost 100% in his 220 home tank when he took some home from the store and then lost some in his store. I'm just saying be careful, it only takes one and I hope you never have to go through that pain.