Yellow acro's turning slightly green! Fine tuning.

[29bonsaireef]

It would be nice to compile a list of what corals like what type of light!

IMO, you should look for a light that all corals like.. It's very possible to grow and color just about any acropora in a tank lit with quality lighting, and stability as well. I think the answer is not so much in your N&P levels but in the lighting, flow, stability. I've seen borderline perfect sps tank with zero N&P, and same in tanks with high levels.

 

[Dana Riddle]

There are several types of yellow proteins found in corals: 1. The yellow non-fluorescent color found in some Sarcophyton species. 2. A true yellow fluorescent protein (officially described in only a zoanthid), and: 3. Color mixing of red and green fluorescent proteins. Many proteins change from green to red (or red to green) as they mature, so, it is possible for yellow to be due to color transitioning. This is seen in the Kaede protein found in Trachyphyllia ('open brain') corals and quite possibly in others.

 

[BoomCorals]

There are several types of yellow proteins found in corals: 1. The yellow non-fluorescent color found in some Sarcophyton species. 2. A true yellow fluorescent protein (officially described in only a zoanthid), and: 3. Color mixing of red and green fluorescent proteins. Many proteins change from green to red (or red to green) as they mature, so, it is possible for yellow to be due to color transitioning. This is seen in the Kaede protein found in Trachyphyllia ('open brain') corals and quite possibly in others.

Ah so this is why green/red acros can sometimes turn yellow, or “yellow” acros can turn green/red. So there is no “true” naturally yellow acropora? Or do they exist because they have a perfect mix of red and green proteins?

 

[Dana Riddle]

Ah so this is why green/red acros can sometimes turn yellow, or “yellow” acros can turn green/red. So there is no “true” naturally yellow acropora? Or do they exist because they have a perfect mix of red and green proteins?

There probably are some true yellow Acroporas. After being in Hawaii for 18 years, I'm just now beginning to see the variety of corals available that just weren't available before I left the mainland back in the 90s. There were some true yellow Porites in Hawaii. But additive color mixing can sometimes undoubtedly trick our eyes into seeing yellow . This could be the result of red and green proteins, or chlorophyll fluorescence (red) and the glow of a green fluorescent protein.

 

[dankreef]

IME its all about light. Everyone saying that indirectly maybe? More nutrients in water = more delusion of light due to particles in the water. IME most acros will go green with low light. You can move a yellow to the bottom and it will go green, move it back up top it will go yellow. Most people have yellows that are bright yellows getting ripped with par that I have seen. I have a diabolic pacman thats like 8 inches from water light screaming yellow. Have A pikachu about halfway down screaming neon green yellow. I want to move it up but I think i almost like the florescence more?

 

[Charterreefer]

Yellow is a light thing. Daylight spectrum will really help. So will lots of intensity. I only have the SB Yellow Tort, Wolverine, Pikachu and OG Tyree Pink Lemonade, but they are more yellow at 400+ PAR and under whiter spectrum. In the frag tank under 10K, they are even more yellow.

If you are a T5 guy, then see if you can work a GE 6500K in there. If LED, then whiten them up a bit.

The brightest and intense yellow color comes with lower (near NSW) parameters, so you are good there on N and P. More would make them darker and yield more towards green - richer, if you will, and not brighter.

There is no tank that can color all corals great. I keep my tank with just a trace of N and P because I like the growth and also like the bright colors with greater contrast, but my red plant, for example, is not as rich and dark of a red as others. There are tradeoffs, but very high light and NWSish parameters is where I like it.

Do you have the Hannah Ultra Low? It gets pretty low.

I actually have the larger supposedly more accurate Hanna model. I just wish it had 3 digits to the right of the decimal point. When you are measuring something that has a range that is between 0.00 and 0.01 (level I keep system at) It would be nice to have it spread out a bit as reading in the thousandths would allow. I could "see" what's going on better.

I have 2 -400 watt radiums ( i went back up from 250 w as the PAR was too low for a 5 ' DD) that are on for 7 hours. I also have 4 T5's (on for 9 hours) and two reefbrite 455nm strips (comes on 1st 2 hours of light and last 2). All toll I have an avg of 350 - 400 PAR. I will order a 6500K tube to try out. I was thinking about trying the 17500K megachrome 400 watt as I read some good reviews on them.

Yeah, I don't think any one tank can color up all coral at once. I have a rouge millepora that won't grow for anything. It has some of the most amazing red color I have ever seen in a coral but it just won't grow in my system. I moved it twice in two years...I'm thinking that it probably likes lower kelvin bulbs.

 

[BoomCorals]

I actually have the larger supposedly more accurate Hanna model. I just wish it had 3 digits to the right of the decimal point. When you are measuring something that has a range that is between 0.00 and 0.01 (level I keep system at) It would be nice to have it spread out a bit as reading in the thousandths would allow. I could "see" what's going on better.

I have 2 -400 watt radiums ( i went back up from 250 w as the PAR was too low for a 5 ' DD) that are on for 7 hours. I also have 4 T5's (on for 9 hours) and two reefbrite 455nm strips (comes on 1st 2 hours of light and last 2). All toll I have an avg of 350 - 400 PAR. I will order a 6500K tube to try out. I was thinking about trying the 17500K megachrome 400 watt as I read some good reviews on them.

Yeah, I don't think any one tank can color up all coral at once. I have a rouge millepora that won't grow for anything. It has some of the most amazing red color I have ever seen in a coral but it just won't grow in my system. I moved it twice in two years...I'm thinking that it probably likes lower kelvin bulbs.

The phosphate Hannah checker gets inaccurate at low range. It has a margin of error of .03. So .00 could be .03 or vice versa. You need the phosphorous checker which measures in ppb and is very accurate at lower ranges.

 

[Charterreefer]

The phosphate Hannah checker gets inaccurate at low range. It has a margin of error of .03. So .00 could be .03 or vice versa. You need the phosphorous checker which measures in ppb and is very accurate at lower ranges.

Thanks for the info. ppb, that's more like it! I'm assuming the margin of error is better? I wanted to calibrate my Hanna meter (the big long blue one) but they want $150.00 for the standards! lol. Based on your info it sounds like its not worth it anyway.

 

[jda]

That is funny - I struggle with Rogue Mille in the tank too (14K Phoenix alone)... color is awesome, but growth sucks. I am talking like 24-30 months. It will grow like crazy in my frag tank under whiter lights and more output. I agree that it probably likes lower K bulbs.

I am tearing down my current tank and moving to a smaller one (for a while). I am going to run 6500K or 10K halides and a pair of VHO Super Actinic on it. Those were the lights that I used when I had the most growth and best color... I just use 14K halides now since I wanted to drop the electrical usage of the VHOs and chiller and use a open top. This will be 330 more watts, but they are 6' and I get to drop 2x halides from the current tank. 20K Radium is a great bulb, but it is a "compromise" bulb - when running T5s, I would run something whiter and use Actinic to blue up the tank. If you could get to even a XM or Hammy 10K and use the T5s to blue it up, then your corals would probably love you.

Ballasts matter. If you are using 400W 20K Radium on electronic or magnetic, then the output is somewhere around 90 ppfd. The 250W version on M80 has nearly the same output at 85 ppfd. You might not have gained much, depending on the ballasts. If you are using a 400W HQI ballast on those Radiums, then that is more like 147 ppfd, so tons more power.

Here is what the XM 10K looks like compared to the 400W Radium (both on M59). The 10K is almost twice the output and still has tons of blue... but no peak at 450 (so you need T5s for that). The Hamilton 10K is below this. It has a nice peak at 420-430 and is less of a visibly blue bulb - this one does not take as much T5 to "blue up" the tank - this is a really nice bulb. I know that you did not ask for this, but it is worth a look if you are invested in MH and T5s. Having the T5s can really allow to get more output from the MH side of things.

 

[jda]

The Hannah PPB meter is what you want. It is HI739. When you order it, get more reagent packets as well... it only comes with 2 or 3.

 

[Charterreefer]

The Hannah PPB meter is what you want. It is HI739. When you order it, get more reagent packets as well... it only comes with 2 or 3.

Thanks for all the great input! much appreciated. I have a Lumatek with the "super lumen" setting which I believe really drives the bulb.

Yes, the rouge milli is right up there with the wolverine and pikachu - as far as frustrating corals!

 

[Dana Riddle]

Here are a few of the red fluorescent proteins found in Acropora species. The first column indicates the fluorescent emission of the protein (P-590 indicates the Protein fluoresces at a maximum wavelength of 590nm.) The second column indicates coral host, and the third is the type of protein. In this case, DsRed matures from green to red, and is considered autocatalytic - it will change from green to red without any cofactors or external stimuli.
P-590 Acropora digitifera DsRed
P-593 Acropora millepora DsRed
P-597 Acropora millepora DsRed
P-625 Acropora horrida DsRed
P-630 Acropora aspera DsRed

 

[Dana Riddle]

To my previous post - transition of green to red fluorescence can result in orange or yellow fluorescence, depending upon ratio of colors. Of course, the same would be true for those proteins transitioning from red to green.

 

[TangingOut]

The Hannah PPB meter is what you want. It is HI739. When you order it, get more reagent packets as well... it only comes with 2 or 3.

HI736

 

[jda]

My apologies... thanks TangingOut... HI736 is right.

Super Lumen will get you a lot farther along than a M59 vs M80. Good choice. If you ever run into PFO 400W HQI, then grab them... they are like gold for guys who want to run 400s.

 

[Dana Riddle]

My apologies... thanks TangingOut... HI736 is right.

Super Lumen will get you a lot farther along than a M59 vs M80. Good choice. If you ever run into PFO 400W HQI, then grab them... they are like gold for guys who want to run 400s.

Poor Patrick with PFO. Some of his products were really good, and he was a visionary with his mass production of LED lighting. I gave a deposition (a good one for Pat) in the patent infringement lawsuit that eventually drove him out of business. In my opinion, it was extortion by his challengers. Sorry - off topic - but I'm still get riled up a little when I think of how dirty he was done.

 

[jda]

Dana - will the transition eventually end, or can they show yellow or orange indefinitely? I have some that have been yellow for years including much growth... even if you take a Yellow-Tip Austera, which is dead-yellow and not greenish, they never show green or yellow tips and lead me to believe that this might be a yellow protein since it never transitions to anything. The Picachu, Lemonaid and others are the same way.

I miss PFO, IceCap and that AquaMedic decided to get out of lights - I used to like all of these.

 

[Charterreefer]

My apologies... thanks TangingOut... HI736 is right.

Super Lumen will get you a lot farther along than a M59 vs M80. Good choice. If you ever run into PFO 400W HQI, then grab them... they are like gold for guys who want to run 400s.

The Hannah PPB meter is what you want. It is HI739. When you order it, get more reagent packets as well... it only comes with 2 or 3.

I just ordered the Hanna ULR PO4 meter and the extra packets. The other is useless (my now old meter) as compared to reading with a more sensitive scale. I was not aware that this meter even existed!
There are so many things happening in this hobby currently i.e info as well as products. It seems the only way to stay abreast of it all is to share the info on sites like this one. Thanks again!

 

[Dana Riddle]

If I remember correctly, the DsRed transition from green to red is due to chemical oxidation. I have a small Discosoma in one of the lab's tanks and although it fluoresces the typical brilliant orange, but examination with a spectrometer reveals a distinct spike in the green portion of the spectrum. It seems that *something* is preventing full maturation. What it is , I do not know.
The real issue for hobbyists (including myself) is correctly identifying what protein(s) a coral contains. Some proteins turn from red to green as they mature. Some corals contain a non-fluorescent yellow protein and although there is officially only one yellow fluorescent protein described (in a zoanthid.) There are probably hundreds of colorful proteins that haven't been described (I seem to find one almost every time I do exams with the Ocean Optics spectrometer.)
Really good question and I wish I had an answer other than "I don't know."

Dana - will the transition eventually end, or can they show yellow or orange indefinitely? I have some that have been yellow for years including much growth... even if you take a Yellow-Tip Austera, which is dead-yellow and not greenish, they never show green or yellow tips and lead me to believe that this might be a yellow protein since it never transitions to anything. The Picachu, Lemonaid and others are the same way.

I miss PFO, IceCap and that AquaMedic decided to get out of lights - I used to like all of these.