Yet another Cycling Post (Maybe I'm ok?)

Randy Holmes-Farley

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Good question, and I actually don't know. I am curious about it as well, but it had just always been quoted in cycling instructions so I kept it in my suggestions.

There were two or three cases I saw before (on Reddit) where someone was actually measuring ammonia quite diligently and had either one or small clowns, and I calculated the rise in ammonia to be 0.2 to 0.5 ppm a day for them, and this is despite there already be some ammonia oxidation. Of course, that meant I could not really calculate the exact amount of ammonia produced from waste produced by the fish, but multiplying that by the expected amount of fish that should be in the tank and I got between 1 to 1.6 ppm (not including the amount that would be oxidized to nitrite). So I figured yeah, 2ppm sounds like a good number to hit.

IMO, that is likely someone's goal for cycling, not a real expectation of a real tank situation.

In a FO, where there is no ammonia or nitrate consumption, 2 ppm of ammonia added each day means nitrate would accumulate 7.3 ppm per day, which seems on the high side.
 
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brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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was wondering the rough estimate of waste a clownfish creates in 24 hrs

curious how many clownfish it takes to produce two ppm ~ in 24 hours

03415928-67F9-464D-8758-5589E63A8524.png
 

brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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excuse me for a bit as I consult my data logs for a umole h-1 to two ppm in 24 hrs formula thats slipped my immediate recall
 

Azedenkae

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IMO, that is likely someone's goal for cycling, not a real expectation of a real tank situation.

In a FO, where there is no ammonia or nitrate consumption, 2 ppm of ammonia added each day means nitrate would accumulate 7.3 ppm per day, which seems on the high side.
FO?
 

brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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fish only. not blocking folks gets you acronym conversions faster. Ill trade you for the umole conversion math

never had as much concern with the ability to actually lower 2 ppm ammonia down to safe zones as I have regarding the ability to measure and report it accurately from say, fifteen different posters. we get fifteen different answers, yet what activated surface area/nh3 does while contacted by high water flow is a highly streamlined and timely action among all fifteen example tanks. no matter what they report.

the forum troubleshooting trend is to bend the rules about cycle timing around the reports

if we had a way to compare readings off a tank from seneye and hach, and use them both on a new tank a few days into a cycle (dry rocks and bottle bac) that would be a real boost for our science, covering much of what we see nowadays in cycle help posts. the day we get to benchmark a seneye against a hach w be a happy day for the hobby
 
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karamreef117

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This looks very well done like a bio lab report :) The only thing I am looking at is pH and Nitrates. Nitrates being at 50 why? What is causing it to just keep decreasing and would you be able to run a refugium with your skimmer? pH you shouldn't be much worried about but it is good to be in the 8.1 8.3 I have no experience with pH and matter of fact I never test it so I cant tell you much about it. Everything else is perfect!
 
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Siberwulf

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This looks very well done like a bio lab report :) The only thing I am looking at is pH and Nitrates. Nitrates being at 50 why? What is causing it to just keep decreasing and would you be able to run a refugium with your skimmer? pH you shouldn't be much worried about but it is good to be in the 8.1 8.3 I have no experience with pH and matter of fact I never test it so I cant tell you much about it. Everything else is perfect!

I am running a fuge, yeah. It's growing some Chaeto (and GHA, but I need to get a GFO, looks like). Here's a pic!
Chaeto Over.jpg
Tank and Sump Light.jpg
 

Azedenkae

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As Brandon noted, FO is fish only. :)
Ah gotcha. 7.3ppm nitrates per day could be on the high side, but I would not put it past some tanks that one would consider 'fully stocked'.

I mean, quick search comes up with this thread for example: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/high-nitrates-140.802973/

To simplify everything, let's just presume op in that thread does a 20% water change when nitrates read 140, and then one week later reads 140ppm again, so that's 24ppm a week, or 4ppm a day. That's with 5 fish in a 100 gallon system (total, actual water volume would of course be lower) and with biopellets running, so the expected nitrate production of a fuller stock and discounting the effects of the biopellets would probably make 7.3ppm nitrate reasonable. Op didn't make a statement about the test kit used though, and 140ppm nitrate does seem high - not sure if that would have actually affected any of the fish or corals or whatever though?
 
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Siberwulf

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Ah gotcha. 7.3ppm nitrates per day could be on the high side, but I would not put it past some tanks that one would consider 'fully stocked'.

I mean, quick search comes up with this thread for example: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/high-nitrates-140.802973/

To simplify everything, let's just presume op in that thread does a 20% water change when nitrates read 140, and then one week later reads 140ppm again, so that's 24ppm a week, or 4ppm a day. That's with 5 fish in a 100 gallon system (total, actual water volume would of course be lower) and with biopellets running, so the expected nitrate production of a fuller stock and discounting the effects of the biopellets would probably make 7.3ppm nitrate reasonable. Op didn't make a statement about the test kit used though, and 140ppm nitrate does seem high - not sure if that would have actually affected any of the fish or corals or whatever though?

To be clear, there are no Fish. I'm wrapping the Fishless cycle up and been tracking here. I'm planning on a 25% WC this weekend (Dr. Tim recommends) to see if I can't bump those down. Also, I noticed that I may have missed the part in Triton about a GFO and Carbon Reactor...so I'll be snagging one of those to drop phosphates out of the water and hopefully head off this GHA Sump shenanigans.
 

Azedenkae

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To be clear, there are no Fish. I'm wrapping the Fishless cycle up and been tracking here. I'm planning on a 25% WC this weekend (Dr. Tim recommends) to see if I can't bump those down. Also, I noticed that I may have missed the part in Triton about a GFO and Carbon Reactor...so I'll be snagging one of those to drop phosphates out of the water and hopefully head off this GHA Sump shenanigans.
Oh yeah nah we are just discussing some hypotheticals at this point. ^_^ Dun worry about it.
 
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Siberwulf

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Oh yeah nah we are just discussing some hypotheticals at this point. ^_^ Dun worry about it.
Gotcha!

I'm still kinda irked by my pH reading. I've done the "open the window" deal, and it did go up a little. But with a Skimmer, Chaeto/GHA growth with a nice Fuge Light, I'd expect my pH to be higher. Now that I know I'm not in the nitrification process (Ammonia and Nitrite are zero), then I'd expect things to be higher than 7.83 (and I just re-calibrated my probe). Maybe a WC will help.
 

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