You're all nuts....well maybe.
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Joe Rice
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I think BRS did some reasonable decent experimentation on this topic. If I remember correctly, they concluded that it had a fairly significant effect if the socks are changed every three days.
BRStv Investigates: What do your filter socks actually do?
Today on BRStv, we have a brand new episode of our series, BRStv Investigates. In this series, we explore popular reefing theories, products, methods, and what the manuals are missing, with a focus on putting them to the test! On this episode we are taking a look at filter socks, and can they...
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Thales
Valuable Member
That’s good stuff but different from what we were talking about.I think BRS did some reasonable decent experimentation on this topic. If I remember correctly, they concluded that it had a fairly significant effect if the socks are changed every three days.
BRStv Investigates: What do your filter socks actually do?
Today on BRStv, we have a brand new episode of our series, BRStv Investigates. In this series, we explore popular reefing theories, products, methods, and what the manuals are missing, with a focus on putting them to the test! On this episode we are taking a look at filter socks, and can they...
OP
OP
Anything I did would be dismissed as far to amateur and of little scientific fact. Plus are hobiest kits up to the job. There are other factors like how old would the detritus be I collected as it would need a bare bottom tank to collect fresh samples and then testing how often. What it needs is a little more than the average hobiest is able to do. BRS would be good or even a lab.
OP
OP
Must have missed this and just watched the vid. Interesting indeed.BRStv Investigates: What do your filter socks actually do?
Today on BRStv, we have a brand new episode of our series, BRStv Investigates. In this series, we explore popular reefing theories, products, methods, and what the manuals are missing, with a focus on putting them to the test! On this episode we are taking a look at filter socks, and can they...
While there is of course room for improvement there does seems to be some meaningful export. Of course like everything in the hobby it’s not ‘needed’ but there is evidence they do something. Having to dose phosphate? Perhaps don’t run filter socks if buildup isn’t a concern in your system, but it appears they have value outside only water clarity. It also gives some sort of indication of the break down rate with 2x per week changes as effective as daily but nutrients increasing with weekly sock changes and longer. Implies for these system, for the food they were feeding it takes a bit under a week for that phosphate to be released. Of course other food and livestock would change those results but it’s nice to have some sort of reference.
Just a point or 2. In a tank with sand and cuc as in real life reefkeeping we will see detritus being consumed and broken down further. I have 1" of sand on the bottom of my tank and various detrivour cuc consuming detritus. How much what exits the cuc and continues to be broken down remains unknown. I also use Oxydators which may well help in the process of oxidizing some of the detritus. I also have corals, that consume some of the detritus. So, all in all some good stuff from BRS but with regards to using no socks and the results they got it's hardly representative of my and manys real aquarium set up.
I was always told the various size inverts, pods, worms, etc are processing and reprocessing detritus until it is virtually inert, I have no idea if this is 100% true or is an old reefers tale, or proven science, it would make sense at face value (to me at least) but as few have posted, how long does it take?
Webslinger
Valuable Member
I only use socks when i need to clear the water up a bit. Maybe a few days every other month. I clean the crap in my sump maybe twice a year. Keeping my hands out of the tank is when it looks best.
Paul B
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My tank is (I think) 48 years old and I can see no detritus, none, Zippo, Nada. I love detritus so if it is in there, so be it. Too many people clean their tanks way to much. I don't siphon it out because I don't see it. I run a reverse undergravel filter so I assume it is mulched in there someplace but I don't care. I don't care about an unbelievable amount of things, detritus is one of them. It does feed corals but besides that, it is inert. Doesn't hurt anything, if it did, my tank would have crashed when Justin Beiber was born. And besides, pods live to live in it, sort of like pigs like slop. And I don't even know what slop is.
If your tank is older than mine and you clean detritus all the time, raise your hand.. Higher. Thats what I thought.
Detritus indeed.
(Hello Atoll, how you doing?)
See any detritus in there? Most of those fish are older than some of the people here. ;Wideyed
If your tank is older than mine and you clean detritus all the time, raise your hand.. Higher. Thats what I thought.
Detritus indeed.
(Hello Atoll, how you doing?)
See any detritus in there? Most of those fish are older than some of the people here. ;Wideyed
Thales
Valuable Member
It depends on how through you are. While there are always some people that talk about 'it isn't scientific fact', forget them. Plenty of amateur's have done good and useful science in the aquarium world. If you see something that needs to be tested, tested and report what you did. At the very least, you'll be giving the next person a place to start from. You could totally do what you are talking about with a few 5 gallon tanks or buckets.
I get you may not want to do it, but you totally could.
Sailfinguy21
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I have no sump on my 135. But i do use two emperor 400 HOBS and reason is because they are huge.. they csn hold alot if i need to put tons of carbon in or whatever.. but i mainly use them because penguin and emperor filters have ALOT of suction and i dont like floating particles in my tank.
Dr. Dendrostein
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Any fish older than 1969?My tank is (I think) 48 years old and I can see no detritus, none, Zippo, Nada. I love detritus so if it is in there, so be it. Too many people clean their tanks way to much. I don't siphon it out because I don't see it. I run a reverse undergravel filter so I assume it is mulched in there someplace but I don't care. I don't care about an unbelievable amount of things, detritus is one of them. It does feed corals but besides that, it is inert. Doesn't hurt anything, if it did, my tank would have crashed when Justin Beiber was born. And besides, pods live to live in it, sort of like pigs like slop. And I don't even know what slop is.
If your tank is older than mine and you clean detritus all the time, raise your hand.. Higher. Thats what I thought.
Detritus indeed.
(Hello Atoll, how you doing?)
See any detritus in there? Most of those fish are older than some of the people here. ;Wideyed
It's not going to match every tank but it's more evidence than anything else I have seen presented here. I mean the point of the thread was telling people it's healther for their tanks to pull the socks, or did I get that wrong?
It does imply that, but it was a very sterile comparison and as previously posted there was no comparison with systems with lots of ditrivours where the natural biological processes were allowed to progress, also long term effects on systems may change, maybe the number of systems having to dose NO3 and PO4 would reduce if the detritus was allowed to settle and be consumed... it’s a really interesting discussion and one I hope progresses..
I’ve recently removed all mechanical filtration and intend to allow detritus to do its thing in my display and the caulerpa section in my sump, I’m intending to periodically remove it from my cheato section, simply due to the mess it makes harvesting. I use monthly ICPs, what other measurements would be useful?It depends on how through you are. While there are always some people that talk about 'it isn't scientific fact', forget them. Plenty of amateur's have done good and useful science in the aquarium world. If you see something that needs to be tested, tested and report what you did. At the very least, you'll be giving the next person a place to start from. You could totally do what you are talking about with a few 5 gallon tanks or buckets.
I get you may not want to do it, but you totally could.
fish farmer
2500 Club Member
My tank is (I think) 48 years old and I can see no detritus, none, Zippo, Nada. I love detritus so if it is in there, so be it. Too many people clean their tanks way to much. I don't siphon it out because I don't see it. I run a reverse undergravel filter so I assume it is mulched in there someplace but I don't care. I don't care about an unbelievable amount of things, detritus is one of them. It does feed corals but besides that, it is inert. Doesn't hurt anything, if it did, my tank would have crashed when Justin Beiber was born. And besides, pods live to live in it, sort of like pigs like slop. And I don't even know what slop is.
If your tank is older than mine and you clean detritus all the time, raise your hand.. Higher. Thats what I thought.
Detritus indeed.
(Hello Atoll, how you doing?)
See any detritus in there? Most of those fish are older than some of the people here. ;Wideyed
I thought you occasionally blasted your tank with a diatom filter to clean things up?
Maintaining Old Reef tank with Diatom Filter.
Doing a little maintenance with a diatom filter. Sucking out some Cyano and general tidying up. Using a reverse UG filter requires that I do this occasionally so nothing clogs. This is the beginning. In a minute or two, you can't see anything in the tank but the copperband loves it and looks...
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Paul B
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I'm not sure, but I do have socks older than that.
Yes I do, a few times a year, but not to "remove" detritus or clean things up "exactly". (as I wrote my response I was thinking of when I do that and knew someone would refer to it so I retrieved this picture) Although I do remove a good amount of detritus that is not the reason for doing that. With an undergravel filter of any kind you need to break up any clumps of detritus so the thing doesn't clog because a clogged UG filter is about as bad as a dsb.
I also use my diatom filter to blast out pores in the rock as those pores are needed for denitrification. But any detritus in the tank, as long as it is not clogging anything is welcome.
Under my UG filter plate is full of mud which was detritus. You can see in this picture of my Son n Law lifting the UG filter for the move here after it was installed for about 40 years, it is all mud. Probably five pounds of it.
My stirring up pushes a lot of detritus under the plates where it doesn't bother anything as long as it doesn't completely clog the thing. If detritus was somehow bad, my tank would not be running.
If you don't have a reverse UG filter, and I know you don't, then detritus removal is not needed unless you see it and don't like it. Pods love to live in the stuff also.
It is an interesting question and discussion but it's very similar to the style of threads "I have done it this way for a long time so it's the best". Has a sockless tank been able to support corals that a tank running socks can't? Perhaps NPS? Does a sockless tank have greater growth rate of some corals? Say by winning various local contests or at least some photo evidence of growth that surpasses filter sock tanks?
It would seem like most things in the hobby they are optional, like skimmers, sumps and other equipment, but I have not seen evidence reef tanks are better off without them. I fully encourage anyone that doesn't like running them to experiment with removing them, I doubt it matters much either way to most tanks, and you can see if your particular system pools the detritus in the sump or if you have reduced clarity, but imo saying our tanks are healther without them seems a stretch unless someone provides evidence.
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