Playing nice...

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uniquecorals

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Every once in a while, I’ve been known to blast out an article that has some longer-term repercussions…you know, like creating a controversy or sparking some dissent or even outrage in some corners of internet-land.

Today might be one of them (although, usually when I preface my blog with such an intro it seems to minimize the nasty responses for some reason…)

A couple of days back, I was speaking with a fairly well-regarded reef aquarium figure and erstwhile inventor, about a new product he was trying to bring to market. It was- is- a VERY cool product with a solid practical function, real science behind it, and lots of work and research to back it up. And it will make reef keeping a lot easier for a lot of people (Sorry, the proprietary nature of the product prohibits me from disclosing information about it, or the person or person(s) involved with its development). He’s close to releasing the product, but is scared…yeah, scared.


Why? Is he afraid that it might fail? Well, every entrepreneur is, to some extent. That’s normal. Is he afraid that his product is no good? Not really…it’s darned good.

What’s he afraid of?

He’s afraid of the withering attacks that almost anyone who introduces something new and different to the hobby faces from certain corners. Afraid that he may not be able to get traction for his product before some of the wannabe critics let him have it online, potentially making his product “toxic” to the retail world before anyone understands it for how good it really is.


wolfpack.jpg

They're out there...waiting to pounce.


I’ve seen this before.


I remember a similar sentiment being felt by another aquarium product manufacturer some time back, when his product was introduced. Obviously, there was much to learn about the product, and there was some healthy criticism and skepticism shown by some very smart people who had some interesting things to say. However, there were an equal number of people who came on out of their internet troll-hangouts and just had open season on the product and concept…Some of these people had advanced degrees in the field in which the company operates, which definitely gave them a leg up on the rest of us, and put them in a position to ask some good questions and create insightful discussions…

But that isn’t what happened initially.

What happened with some of these folks was that they simply pounced, with fangs gnashing and the claws out- and turned an introduction of a cool product into a rather distasteful, loud, personal attack on the people involved, and insinuations that, because someone released a product in “their wheelhouse” without their tacit “seal of approval” (‘cause they were experts, of course) that it was incorrect, wrong, misleading, etc…

It was awful. Childish, immature, and just plain mean.

boy-tantrum-120712.jpg

Look at me! Listen to me! I'm an expert and it's not fair that you figured out a way to make money off of this stuff! It won't work. It's stupid. Look at me! Look at me!


What came to pass was that there was finally some healthy discussion, and apparently, an understanding about more of the specifics of the product, and it went on to great success…But only after a very nasty “gauntlet” of criticism and attacks by some (I might add-very highly educated) “armchair quarterbacks” who really left one with the impression that they were insecure because someone was using something familiar to them for economic gain- and that they didn't invent the idea. They justified their criticism under the guise of “consumer protection” or some such lofty virtue, when it became very obvious to anyone who saw it from an objective standpoint (especially the guy's legal team) that it was really more of a case of low self esteem, dogmatism, and…fear from the parties involved which led to such viciousness. Fear of- what?

I’ve seen many examples of this in the hobby over the years. That’s just one story.

Which brings me back to the person I told you about at the beginning. Yeah, you could say lots of things like, “Hey, if you can’t stand the heat..”- and that would be correct. Success requires us as business people to stand up to scrutiny, push back at inaccurate assessments, and answer tough questions from critics…However, it shouldn’t be such an expected norm in reef keeping culture to know that you’re going to get “troll-wacked” that it actually inhibits creative thinking.

Fortunately, there are business strategies around this process, like simply running the idea by some of the people most likely to pounce on it- which can have good or bad consequences..And lots of other ways to approach this that any good product development person, PR professional, or marketing expert knows. Disarming the enemies of free thinking, if you will.

1415094016Navy-SEAL.jpg

There are proactive measures you can take to thwart trolls...


But it is tough to think about sometimes. I feel for these entrepreneurs.


What it all boils down to, however, is that, in my opinion, reef keeping culture needs to look at itself a bit more closely…I mean, skepticism is super important. We should never, ever take anything as the last word on reef keeping, and we should investigate any and all claims that seem too good to be true. However, what we should NOT do, in my opinion- is create an atmosphere of such negativity, such fear, such contempt- that it actually inhibits progression and the creative process.

You see it on a hobby level when someone puts out a new idea on a forum or wants to try something a bit different than the generally “accepted” norm in the hobby- people come out of the woodwork with negative attacks…Now, not everyone, of course- but often just enough people- with just enough intensity- to stifle some great ideas…again, often under the guise that these people “know better” because they can type more eloquently, respond more quickly, and attack via internet with lots of baffling scientific references that would seemingly quash anyone’s idea before it ever gets traction…or worse, intimidate other people from joining a discussion that could lead to a hobby progression…And some of these people don’t even seem to be “practicing reefers” (Ie; don’t have a tank)…Not everyone has the time, inclination, or even the stomach to go head to head with these trolls…and that’s a real loss for the hobby.



Internet-Troll.jpg

"I'll fix that guy...here's a dozen obscure academic references that will leave him so intimidated that he'll never even think of trying that idea! Mwuuu-haahha!


I wonder how many cool hobby ideas, or even potential breakthroughs- were never even discussed for fear of the aggressive attacks that come from the dark corners of the internet by gangs of thuggish “experts” who know better because they- hmm, because, well- why?

Does this sounds like a lot of whining and some sour grapes or something? Maybe? I dunno, but I am just a bit tired of hearing from reefers with cool ideas that are simply afraid to proceed for fear of criticism..Maybe it’s a job for therapists and these people have some underlying issues- but really, that’s not what I’m getting at.

What I’m getting at is that we as a hobby need to have a greater tolerance for “new”, and a more nurturing environment when it comes to discussing progressive reef keeping concepts and ideas. Because if we don’t, we just become another “good ‘ol boys club” of cretins, trapped in our little bubble of self-perceived superiority, and not progressing at all.


Coke-hilltop7.jpg

"I'd like to buy the world a Coke..."

Look, I’m not suggesting that we simply sit around the fire and sing “Kumbaya” with everyone who comes out with a new idea, just because- that would be as stupid as the aforementioned behaviors…What we should do, in my humble opinion- is gently ask questions, ask for clarification, foster amicable and productive discussions. Get some clarification (I said it twice.) Yes, bad ideas are bad ideas, and in the light of constructive criticism and discussion will either evolve or simply wither and die (as perhaps some should). But to create an atmosphere of adversarial behaviors and unleash criticisms without fully understanding something is just plain…well, stupid.


I love an underdog…The “everyone’s reefer.” The kid from nowhere who follows a dream. The gentle hobbyist with a passion and a great idea. I hear from reefers every day who want to start reef related businesses. It’s super inspiring. I love these folks. And I hate seeing them blindsided by mean-spirited jerks.

So, the next time a reefer- or anyone, for that matter, “runs an idea by you”- be honest. Yeah, if it sucks, don’t hold back, but don’t summarily dismiss something on the basis that it’s “wrong” until you thoroughly understand it..or maybe just ask questions that help the person proposing the idea develop it more.

Just play nicer. Most of you do…but to those that don’t (well, you probably don’t read my “fluffy” stuff anyways)- just consider what I’m saying.

There is amazing talent, intellect, and ability out there in Reefkeeping Land…And we are better with you than without you…when you play nice.

Stay skeptical, but stay civil.


Stay enthused, but stay supportive of others.

And most important…

Stay Wet

Scott Fellman
Unique Corals






 
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diablomaster9045

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Well said Scott! I think the key when introducing something in this hobby is to have the supporting information about the product. The biggest example of the attacking of a new product I have seen was that Po2 reactor that was released. When he released it it have a vary large price tag and never said anything on how it worked. So it was just bashed down to the point everyone ignored it. So pass on this advice to the developer of what sounds like a possibly awesome new item. Have supporting information on how it works and what it does.
 
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Well said Scott! I think the key when introducing something in this hobby is to have the supporting information about the product. The biggest example of the attacking of a new product I have seen was that Po2 reactor that was released. When he released it it have a vary large price tag and never said anything on how it worked. So it was just bashed down to the point everyone ignored it. So pass on this advice to the developer of what sounds like a possibly awesome new item. Have supporting information on how it works and what it does.
Perfect point and example...You do need to support extraordinary claims with extraordinary information. However, it's just mind-blowing to me sometimes how this attitude of attacking in general has becoming a tacitly-accepted part of our hobby "culture." And what's worse, when one guy attacks, his/her buddies not only give him/her a very public pat on the back, but will occasionally join in (when they feel it's safe to do so), adding more hateful sentiment on top of an already not-so-nice opening volley...:(
 

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AMEN!

Unfortunately, trolling and internet bullying are not just problems the reef keeping community faces. Put many people behind a computer and they lose some empathy... You're right that we shouldn't let this stifle creativity.
 

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While I agree with you in general I also want to reiterate that extraodianry claims require extraodinary evidence. How many animals have needlessly died due to the various snake oils that have been sold over the years, some of which were even mainstream at some point. Weeding out these products in the beggining might very well save the lives of many creatures and make the industry as a whole look better, so in some ways berating the bad ideas might actually be good, of course the risk is always there that a truely great idea is extenguished before it ever gets off the ground.
 
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While I agree with you in general I also want to reiterate that extraodianry claims require extraodinary evidence. How many animals have needlessly died due to the various snake oils that have been sold over the years, some of which were even mainstream at some point. Weeding out these products in the beggining might very well save the lives of many creatures and make the industry as a whole look better, so in some ways berating the bad ideas might actually be good, of course the risk is always there that a truely great idea is extenguished before it ever gets off the ground.
Absolutely 100% correct...It's just that we have to make sure that we don't kill the very idea of improvement and evolution. Bad ideas show very quickly for what they are- bad ideas...some unfortunately stick, but many get weeded out early...But we shouldn't kill the concept of people trying to bring ideas forth, and I think most of us can agree on that!
 

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Enjoy your writings Scott and this touches on a different level than most discussions and it is needed! Thanks!
 

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Enjoy your writings Scott and this touches on a different level than most discussions and it is needed! Thanks!

Agree 100%. After watching the discussion about about both the Mindstream and Electrostatic Charge thingy, I believe this article is very well timed. There's nothing wrong with putting some faith in people who have massive experience/knowledge in the hobby, but when we start to get to a point where you start seeing comments like, "If so and so says it's good, I'd be willing to try it." That in my experience in many industries where I've seen similar things happen leads to bad places.
 
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Funny, wasn't thinking of either of those, but I suppose it is quite timely, LOL. The reality is that in the absence of a "UL" -type unbiased organization that tests aquarium stuff, all we have to go on are the reports from users or "beta testers" of products and such, which may inadvertently breed the unwavering faith that we have in learned "experts" in our field...There is nothing wrong with turning to people with expertise, but the longer I'm in the industry, the more I see of "Yes Men- types who will shill whatever product comes their way if they're "hooked up" or otherwise compensated- an unfortunate byproduct of the "demigod" thing the has been discussed in reef keeping for some time (totally separate issue). So in the end, we still have to educate ourselves and learn a bit about what we're doing before we make our own decisions about any product or concept.
 

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I really hate trolling, nice read!
Mods have a big roles in forums (good & active ones), saddly they have to be alert to stop them or trollers will stop good ideas, products or what ever to been shared. I have years of experience in different forums and this is a common problem. Usually Alter egos, in person 99% of trollers are "saints".
 
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gooch

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I had my share of detractors when I started up. Had I listened to the experts when I started I never would have started. Millions upon millions of frag plugs later I think they were wrong. Imagine the coral propagation world without ceramic frag plugs.............now be nice.......lol.
 

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I think most of us only look for a new product when we have an issue and no success with dealing with it. Any new product should tell us why we need it, what exactly it does and why it does it well. I for one like a choice of products so the more on the market the better products will rise to the top.
 
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I had my share of detractors when I started up. Had I listened to the experts when I started I never would have started. Millions upon millions of frag plugs later I think they were wrong. Imagine the coral propagation world without ceramic frag plugs.............now be nice.......lol.
LOL you know my thoughts on this! In all seriousness- yeah, look at where you would have been had you succumbed to the naysayers...most of these people probably don't have any ideas of their own, and find it much easier simply to trash on everyone else, sadly. And BTW, I love frag plugs..at least until you invent the world's first antigravity submersible force field to hold frags suspended in the water column, while glued to a tiny pebble of aragonite...I know you're working on this, so I won't trash the idea just yet...LOL
-Scott
 
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I think most of us only look for a new product when we have an issue and no success with dealing with it. Any new product should tell us why we need it, what exactly it does and why it does it well. I for one like a choice of products so the more on the market the better products will rise to the top.
Absolutely, the chaff separates from the wheat, or whatever...Marketers need to be more transparent, communicative, and helpful than ever before!

-Scott
 

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I agree 100%. As a relatively noob, even though I've been involved in SW right at 4 years, and FW for well over 20 years, I was one of those that just rode the easy bus, and just kept it simple. However, when I decided to also have SW, I had the basics down, but it still was like being one pebble on the sands at The Barrier Reef. Just so many things out there that can help you to become successful, and just as much, if not more, to hinder you. When I'm having problems with my tank, which I've had my share of, I turn to my books, then to the forums to figure out what I'm doing wrong, and how to correct it. Unfortunately, for a lot of people, I've (we've) learned that asking one question will set off a barrage of answers that sometimes make you feel like you shouldn't have asked in the first place. What you think is a very good answer, or way to handle a problem, quickly becomes a keyboard fight over who knows the most. Also just as unfortunate, most people don't know who is the one to listen to, and often it ends with the person asking the question being even more frustrated.

This is the same way with new products coming out. For the bigger part, most new hobbyists won't know whether it's great or not, and end up scratching their heads because of all the fighting and "expert I am" keyboard proffesionals giving what you might think is the expert opinion. I know I've seen many people give up the hobby for this very reason, including myself. It leaves you not knowing most of the time whether to try or purchase something, whether it be equipment or additive or method, because it's hard to wade through the opinions and knowing white right and whose wrong. As you said Scott, sometimes I wish, for both FW and SW, we had some type of "UL" label to say this is good to go. But alas, I'm sure it wouldn't alleviate the problem, because we would still have "that persons child" that knows more.
 

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Here's hoping the "secret" product is an automated alk tester!

I have noticed it seems like some communities in the reef world are quick to attack methods or products that are different or challenge the existing status quo. Its natural and healthy to have skepticism of new things but some people take it way too far.
 

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Years ago on a Art Mailing list we had a flame war. One of the artist decided to create Flamewarrior's
bigdog.jpg



Big Dog is a bully who doesn't hesitate to use his superior strength to intimidate other combatants. Big Dog may be smart, articulate or just plain mean, but in any case he is a remorseless fighter, brutally ripping into even the weakest of combatants. Once Big Dog securely fastens his powerful jaws on a hapless victim, Me-Too will join the attack. Me-Too is far too weak and insecure to engage in single combat, and must ally himself with Big Dog or a pack of other Warriors to bring down his quarry.
Here is the first one. Enjoy,
 
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Years ago on a Art Mailing list we had a flame war. One of the artist decided to create Flamewarrior's
bigdog.jpg



Big Dog is a bully who doesn't hesitate to use his superior strength to intimidate other combatants. Big Dog may be smart, articulate or just plain mean, but in any case he is a remorseless fighter, brutally ripping into even the weakest of combatants. Once Big Dog securely fastens his powerful jaws on a hapless victim, Me-Too will join the attack. Me-Too is far too weak and insecure to engage in single combat, and must ally himself with Big Dog or a pack of other Warriors to bring down his quarry.
Here is the first one. Enjoy,

Absolutely on point! And "Me Too" is one annoying guy- and rampant on hobby forums-Scott
 

ebushrow

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I love the write up Scott (as usual)! I understand what you are saying completely! I would say that products that have ample beta testing (and not by just the top tier reefers/companies) have the best acceptability by the masses from what I have seen over the years....I can understand the trolls don't necessarily even look at the data before firing off an inflammatory review or comment in any section they want.

However, even with the overtone from the trolls, if the science is behind the product and it is not just another of the "same as the last" items, most reefers would be receptive to the product, regardless of the trolls.

Just as another side note, I have noticed that if a company takes your money and doesn't offer good after care, the inflammatory remarks are easier write and to find....you can never make everybody happy, but you have to at least try, in order to keep the trolls down under the bridge and their comments won't stick :).
 

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