The LFS redoux

[heathd.hd]

I guess my app thought is really just getting people to buy more from the lfs. So instead of using brs and having it shipped to your house. A person could go on lfs app and order it to be delivered into your store than pick it up.

It would limit your overhead and keep some stuff off your shelves.

It also gets you more people in the store.

I would assume your goal as a store is getting people in buying stuff from you even if it's ordering it for them. The easiest possible way to do that would be best. Idk.

 

[ReefCave]

I guess my app thought is really just getting people to buy more from the lfs. So instead of using brs and having it shipped to your house. A person could go on lfs app and order it to be delivered into your store than pick it up.

It would limit your overhead and keep some stuff off your shelves.

It also gets you more people in the store.

I would assume your goal as a store is getting people in buying stuff from you even if it's ordering it for them. The easiest possible way to do that would be best. Idk.

That is a great thought. We will implement a will call option on our site doing just that. For stores not wanting to build their own site a template specifically for the LFS is a great idea. Once again though and not to beat a dead horse, if the only way to sell the item is to eliminate the profit well there is no incentive for the store. Or the site developer for that matter

 

[heathd.hd]

Yah Idk much about lfs profit margins and I'll have to admit I have ordered stuff like jaebo pumps off Amazon just because it was half the price.

But I would love to be able to see if my lfs has something before I drive 20 minutes across town. Calling to ask if the have it seem annoying. Most lfs don't have websites that are very good.

Apps are quick and easy. And if there's a button to order it with a date it will be available or a alert when it comes in I might just stop using brs for things.

Anything u guys can do to keep people coming in the doors is good. As a customer I'm always coming home with something I didn't go for every time I go in for something else.

 

[heathd.hd]

After all this talk I expect to see a unique app $

 

[fazgood]

Garage shops are not competition to a good LFS. Our job is to get the new folks in the hobby and partner with them for the long haul. If the LFS does their job right, customers will become successful and likely get a second or larger system. Eventually if they buy quality livestock they will not need to buy any more. Then you educate them on husbandry, nutrition and high quality foods. Many will be loyal but you can't be upset if they hit the garage shop or online. That is evolution. You could say the best shops vision of success is to NOT sell a regular client any more livestock. The mission then can turn to asking the successful new hobbyist to spread the word. Jim Walters is co-owner of Chicago’s Old Town Aquarium and gave a great talk at MACNA last year. He is quite the visionary. I visited his place last Fall and was blown away at how clean the tanks were and how healthy the livestock. If ever in Chicago you should stop in.

Joe

 

[ReefCave]

After watching that lecture, I personally wrote Jim a letter thanking him for having the kohones to stand on that platform (MACNA) and give the presentation he did. In fact Jim is the one who pointed out to me a critical point in his lecture. The importance of the LFS introducing the new hobbiest to the hobby... A question to REALLY ponder. How did we get introduced and what captivated us to the point of investing our time and $ to the hobby. That lecture was shared on our FB page.. Yes my hats off to Jim Walters for setting the wheels in motion.
However, a solution to the issues at hand is very simple. Support those who support your business model. It's easy. It is working for our store, we are implementing it for the past couple years, whenever a product replacement is available that fits our mold. For the health and longevity of the industry I feel more LFS need to be on board and understand their are options. (Remember these issues were all presented at the beginning of this thread)... Not by me. I'm just sharing what is working for my LFS.

 

[uniquecorals]

Garage shops are not competition to a good LFS. Our job is to get the new folks in the hobby and partner with them for the long haul. If the LFS does their job right, customers will become successful and likely get a second or larger system. Eventually if they buy quality livestock they will not need to buy any more. Then you educate them on husbandry, nutrition and high quality foods. Many will be loyal but you can't be upset if they hit the garage shop or online. That is evolution. You could say the best shops vision of success is to NOT sell a regular client any more livestock. The mission then can turn to asking the successful new hobbyist to spread the word. Jim Walters is co-owner of Chicago’s Old Town Aquarium and gave a great talk at MACNA last year. He is quite the visionary. I visited his place last Fall and was blown away at how clean the tanks were and how healthy the livestock. If ever in Chicago you should stop in.

Joe

Yes, I have spoken with Jim and been to his store a couple of times...It's an example of an LFS elevated. He didn't sit still and let things evolve around him..He created a wonderful culture, vibe, and physical space that makes his place a "destination store", which doesn't have the limitations of geography. Study this place...It's a beacon of modern LFS thought.

-Scott

 

[uniquecorals]

After all this talk I expect to see a unique app $

LOL we actually have one already...It blows me away how much of our business comes from mobile devices nowadays...This is something that brick-and-mortar AND e-tailers must adapt to...You simply have to be mobile-optimized in this new environment. Again, opportunities to innovate both the physical brick-and-mortar store and the conceptual details of aquatic commerce. We can run and hide from change, lament the way things are now versus the "good ol' days", or we can hit it straight on and work with it. The LFS will not die! And there is enough business out there for everyone...if they offer the consumer what they want- both in terms of inventory and service....It's a very cool time for the bold. Good to see a lot of the bold here!

-Scott

 

[heathd.hd]

One last website and app for the lfs comment.

The Internet is open 24-7 people can see your goods anytime and purchase for pickup.

That's full of win!

 

[revhtree]

@uniquecorals Scott another awesome article/write up! I have thought long and hard about the lfs and have honestly considered opening one in the past. I know you're throwing out all these fresh ideas and they are great! Along with them could be some reevaluating of the "old" ways and changing the thinking around a bit!

Can the lfs thrive off the one and done hobbyist? You know those that buy a tank on the spur of the moment, go to fast, kill everything and then list it all on Craigslist. NO! No I don't believe they can!

With that in mind there needs to be a better system so to speak! A better way to introduce the consumer to the hobby. For me I would forget about inflating the prices of the tanks, and equipment and in turn secure a loyal local customer that will by the basic dry goods and livestock from me. Sell introduction packages at cost. Teach and not sell to uneducated people. I may lose customers and it will take longer but I believe I would build trust and the value of the trust is what people would keep coming back for.

Maybe I'm rambling. Maybe I'm dreaming. Maybe I don't know what I'm talking about.

 

[Eienna]

Loving this idea. Too bad I don't have a store to put this into practice!
It would be awesome to have an LFS with just some lovely display tanks. People see how a certain fish or coral would look at their best, in a beautiful environment....and then they would want one...too many I see are passed over because they're displaying stress colors from the store tank, etc. People don't get to see the species as they should be.

 

[FX CharityCorals]

I wish more people would start out with a freshwater tank before jumping to salt. It teaches basic husbundry and water parameters skills needed for successful reefing. Too many people are enamored by the colors and want instant in an instant world instead of understanding patience

 

[SCMatt]

Long winded response I apologize. The problem I have is that eventually the new hobbyist turns into a seasoned hobbyist and then where do we have to turn? Some have great LFS in town, some don't. I don't like walking into an LFS and seeing the usual Tetra, Marineland, API, etc products on the shelf and knowing they can't get much beyond that for me. I feel like I've graduated beyond all of that as a hobbyist. And true, seasoned hobbyists are probably 10% of customers walking in the door, but we seem to have a large voice online if a new hobbyist were to do a google search and come upon boards like this. This is where I think an app or kiosk like is being mentioned would be great. I'd love to order a new expensive fancy skimmer for a new tank build....sadly I can't do it at the LFS, have to do it online.

Also when I start factoring in gas prices to get to an LFS all the way across town, sit in traffic and do it all over again on the way home, why wouldn't ordering online look like the better option? As it stands nothing exciting is getting me to walk into your doors as an LFS, sorry. It's not all about prices for me, its more about what you stock, what you can order for me, and the fact that I can't see anything before I drive 30mins-1hr one way to get to you. I'd like to see the LFS use youtube or similar more. You post up on social media (rarely) saying you have an awesome new coral shipment in but SHOW me! Get me excited and wanting a piece of coral and get me in the store. This is a WYSIWYG world now IMO a tease with no pictures will not do it for me. I don't think a lot of stores are tapping this online market enough, its absolutely HUGE even locally.

I get the LFS is there to get people into the hobby, I just feel personally at least, that there is a cut off or disconnect in there where it really doesn't support that hobbyist further into the experience. A select few LFS probably do, including some of you posting in this thread. I wish I had you as my LFS, the majority I feel do not do this.

I want to walk into an LFS and be hit in the face by some beautiful displays. Then see some high quality products on the shelves. I'd love to see a tablet by the fish and coral tanks asking don't see what you are looking for? Order it here. I'd love for said LFS to have an extensive and quality QT setup and make it known they do this. I'd love not to see a central system connected to a rack full of tanks with lights out and ICH written on the glass. I'd love to see more tanks for sale beyond the Aqueon, Marineland, and Perfecto standard black rimmed tanks or the option to get a nice custom tank built. Perhaps its just a dream for this. I'm just a customer I don't know the first thing about the business, just what I would love to see. But I DO want to be a customer, just seems like no LFS wants to snag a customer of my type.

Price wise the difference is just huge. Again, I don't know the business or margins but from a coral standpoint as a customer why am I going to fight traffic, pay for gas, and MAYBE find what I want at the LFS (because they don't use social media correctly remember) all the while paying at LEAST $50 for a micro frag when I can hit one of the sponsors here on R2R, maybe even a live sale find everything I need for reasonable prices (live sale insane $5, 10, 15 frags) get free shipping if I spend what over $200 give or take which is nothing for most of us in coral and get it in a day? Plus maybe even get extra frags as a bonus. And customer service and frag quality is A+. Sorry, there is just no advantage to go with an LFS in this case unless they are a shop like WWC or something.

I rambled. The LFS frustrates me if you can't tell, locally it is better as of late but still not up to par IMO. Some of you are lucky with the stores where you live. What I really would love to see is more than a single store in town, competition brings growth and advancement. Competition would be great for us customers.

 

[heathd.hd]

Long winded response I apologize. The problem I have is that eventually the new hobbyist turns into a seasoned hobbyist and then where do we have to turn? Some have great LFS in town, some don't. I don't like walking into an LFS and seeing the usual Tetra, Marineland, API, etc products on the shelf and knowing they can't get much beyond that for me. I feel like I've graduated beyond all of that as a hobbyist. And true, seasoned hobbyists are probably 10% of customers walking in the door, but we seem to have a large voice online if a new hobbyist were to do a google search and come upon boards like this. This is where I think an app or kiosk like is being mentioned would be great. I'd love to order a new expensive fancy skimmer for a new tank build....sadly I can't do it at the LFS, have to do it online.

Also when I start factoring in gas prices to get to an LFS all the way across town, sit in traffic and do it all over again on the way home, why wouldn't ordering online look like the better option? As it stands nothing exciting is getting me to walk into your doors as an LFS, sorry. It's not all about prices for me, its more about what you stock, what you can order for me, and the fact that I can't see anything before I drive 30mins-1hr one way to get to you. I'd like to see the LFS use youtube or similar more. You post up on social media (rarely) saying you have an awesome new coral shipment in but SHOW me! Get me excited and wanting a piece of coral and get me in the store. This is a WYSIWYG world now IMO a tease with no pictures will not do it for me. I don't think a lot of stores are tapping this online market enough, its absolutely HUGE even locally.

I get the LFS is there to get people into the hobby, I just feel personally at least, that there is a cut off or disconnect in there where it really doesn't support that hobbyist further into the experience. A select few LFS probably do, including some of you posting in this thread. I wish I had you as my LFS, the majority I feel do not do this.

I want to walk into an LFS and be hit in the face by some beautiful displays. Then see some high quality products on the shelves. I'd love to see a tablet by the fish and coral tanks asking don't see what you are looking for? Order it here. I'd love for said LFS to have an extensive and quality QT setup and make it known they do this. I'd love not to see a central system connected to a rack full of tanks with lights out and ICH written on the glass. I'd love to see more tanks for sale beyond the Aqueon, Marineland, and Perfecto standard black rimmed tanks or the option to get a nice custom tank built. Perhaps its just a dream for this. I'm just a customer I don't know the first thing about the business, just what I would love to see. But I DO want to be a customer, just seems like no LFS wants to snag a customer of my type.

Price wise the difference is just huge. Again, I don't know the business or margins but from a coral standpoint as a customer why am I going to fight traffic, pay for gas, and MAYBE find what I want at the LFS (because they don't use social media correctly remember) all the while paying at LEAST $50 for a micro frag when I can hit one of the sponsors here on R2R, maybe even a live sale find everything I need for reasonable prices (live sale insane $5, 10, 15 frags) get free shipping if I spend what over $200 give or take which is nothing for most of us in coral and get it in a day? Plus maybe even get extra frags as a bonus. And customer service and frag quality is A+. Sorry, there is just no advantage to go with an LFS in this case unless they are a shop like WWC or something.

I rambled. The LFS frustrates me if you can't tell, locally it is better as of late but still not up to par IMO. Some of you are lucky with the stores where you live. What I really would love to see is more than a single store in town, competition brings growth and advancement. Competition would be great for us customers.

Looks like you read the thread and feel the same way I do! Glad I'm not the only one. I love my lfs they bend over backwards for me honestly and I try to spend my money there because it's nice that it's there. These ideas are awesome and will make me spend more of my money!

 

[uniquecorals]

SCMatt, really great information...Really great input by ALL. I don't like to be too self-important, but I think that this thread would be a great read for anyone contemplating an aquatics business, or for anyone who already owns one and is looking to evolve. There is tremendous information in this thread for those who take the time to look at it closely and dissect it.

I love the LFS. It's our past, present...and future!

In fact, I'd go so far to say that people in this biz should take a step back and re-read this entire thread and take some notes...There is input from vendors, suppliers, software designers, e-tailiers, LFS people...and most important, hobbyists. Market intelligence of the highest order. I don't say this very often, but if someone finds themselves contemplating this business and doesn't pick apart this thread (and I'm not talking about the initial stuff I wrote), they are leaving a tremendous treasure trove of information on the table. The opportunity to change and disrupt and for that matter- revolutionize- this industry is looking us all in the eye- for those who would but go and grab it...Be brave and unafraid to look at how things are, and to contemplate- and implement- changes to make them how they can be.

Don't be afraid. DON'T BE AFRAID.

Again. Don't be self-limiting. DO NOT be afraid to throw this industry on its rear- despite protestations from those who say "it can't work", or "You're going to tick people off.."- who cares. WHO CARES! Do "THEY" control YOU? Should "THEY?" The key to the future is believing in yoursef and having the courage to face a lot of heat in the process. Maybe you'll stumble. Or maybe you'll soar beyond any limits you imagined...Because you had the courage to try something different. No one can take that from you. Ever.


I quote Steve Jobs again:

“Your time is limited, so don’t waste it living someone else’s life. Don’t be trapped by dogma – which is living with the results of other people’s thinking. Don’t let the noise of other’s opinions drown out your own inner voice. And most important, have the courage to follow your heart and intuition. They somehow already know what you truly want to become. Everything else is secondary.”


-Scott

 

[fazgood]

Something not covered for the potential LFS owner and as i look back it is not in my business plan at all. That is employees and human resources. I could write a series for SkinEMax about that. )

 

[heathd.hd]

Another idea would be sps group buy options.

Ie. 4 or 5 people being able to group buy a Colony and when it gets in frag at the store. Maybe it's just me but with sps the lfs generally gets colonies. I'm not big on buying a 200 colony. I would take 2 frags off of one. Idk random thought.

 

[Marty.h]

Most buisness nowerdays is online bassed myself use to run a very busy mail order department that done in excess of 4 million pounds a year so was very busy. Our suppliers gave the option to browse there products but with no prices attached they would be linked to us for prices this was not aquatic products. We also use to do some drop shipping direct from supplier to customer.

We also had 10 highstreet stores but the online department had the biggest turn over.

Society nowerdays is more happy to sit infront of a computer and click a button and buy stuff.

In my opinion if a company is not selling online they will potentially get left with the times.

The downside is you don't get the interaction with the LFS but to be honest a lot of LFS's are shocking not only there stock but advice they will say anything for a sale. There will then be issues and you will find them popping up on a forum for advice this is where online shopping can then start as they then loose trust in there LFS and may not be another for miles away so they go of advice from forums and purchase online.

Technology in my opinion will be the demise of society as we know it today it affects every aspect of life as we know it today here is a few examples.

CB's have been replaced with mobiles.

Forums lost a lot of traffic because of the likes of Facebook ect.

Highstreet shopping loosing out to online sales.

We are loosing the interaction with people face to face and it's done through a screen.

As technology advances further things will change even more and not for the better in my opinion.

 

[ReefCave]

Most buisness nowerdays is online bassed myself use to run a very busy mail order department that done in excess of 4 million pounds a year so was very busy. Our suppliers gave the option to browse there products but with no prices attached they would be linked to us for prices this was not aquatic products. We also use to do some drop shipping direct from supplier to customer.

We also had 10 highstreet stores but the online department had the biggest turn over.

Society nowerdays is more happy to sit infront of a computer and click a button and buy stuff.

In my opinion if a company is not selling online they will potentially get left with the times.

The downside is you don't get the interaction with the LFS but to be honest a lot of LFS's are shocking not only there stock but advice they will say anything for a sale. There will then be issues and you will find them popping up on a forum for advice this is where online shopping can then start as they then loose trust in there LFS and may not be another for miles away so they go of advice from forums and purchase online.

Technology in my opinion will be the demise of society as we know it today it affects every aspect of life as we know it today here is a few examples.

CB's have been replaced with mobiles.

Forums lost a lot of traffic because of the likes of Facebook ect.

Highstreet shopping loosing out to online sales.

We are loosing the interaction with people face to face and it's done through a screen.

As technology advances further things will change even more and not for the better in my opinion.

I cannot agree more with every point in this statement. I will be the first person to admit the biggest failure in my personal business has been getting online. Its a completely different way of doing business, communicating, and selling. Its amazing how the past decade, online commerce has flipped retail on its face...in all categories. And its no secret the internet is not going away. What used to not be a trusted way of commerce (not that long ago) is now the way it is. Totally agree.

Whats unique in this industry however, unlike many others...is how one is introduced to the product. To the hobby.

For the industry to grow and move forward in a positive direction, without the LFS how is that introduction of new hobbyists problem solved?

 

[heathd.hd]

I just think you have to do both to stay profitable! Have the store and make sure you run a Web site with it. Sell online. Hit the Facebook up. Show off your stuff online. Get people to visit because they seen your shipment.