Weeble's House O' Tanks

[Defective_Weeble]

Why hello there, r2r! I've been around for a while but I've also been laying dormant for the past few months. Buying a new house and getting moved has kept me pretty silent but it's definitely not kept me away from reefing.

That being said, it's time to get an active build thread going again. Rather than maintain 3 distinct threads for our 3 tanks, I figured I'd combine them all into one. Also, since my main tank will be getting switched out on an upgrade soon, I didn't want to start a thread and then have it go dead.

So without further ado, let's take a tour:

Tidepool

• 48x24x16 - 80 gallon Deep Blue
• Synergy Reef SS44 custom acrylic sump
• Synergy Reef dosing containers
• 2x BRS 1.1 mL dosing pumps
• Diablo DCS 250 skimmer
• Avast Marine biopellet reactor running EcoBack
• Kessil AP700 lights
• Danner Mag 18 return
• 1x EcoTech MP40
• 1x Jebao WP25
• Hydor SmartLevel ATO
• Lots of Apex automation
• Tropic Marin Pro Reef salt, 10 gallons changed weekly

This is the primary tank, sitting in our living room. It's where the bulk of money and attention goes, and it's also the one that's getting replaced by a 300 gallon soon. This 80 gallon has always been a temporary solution. We had a 180 in our old house and, knowing that we were going to move, it was torn down and sold because I knew that I wanted to go 8 feet or more for the "final" tank.

You can find the last video of the Euro 180 here:



Fast forward a few months - We narrowed down our house search and found the one that we wanted. When we walked into this house, we immediately knew where the tank was going to sit. This is from our inspection day before we closed on the house, so you'll have to excuse the former owner's decor, but that big wall with a TV was screaming for a 10 foot tank.

We moved in, painted, got new furniture, gutted the brass & glass fixtures and then set up Tidepool. I tend to think it looks much better these days:

The initial plan for this setup was a 6 foot stand to accommodate the 4 foot tank and a 2x2x12 display refugium. However the refugium never got plumbed, and the tank got turned into an emergency frag tank to help out a friend so it will probably stay that way until we replace the entire system.

A word of advice - Don't ever set up a tank beside a tank unless you think it through first. This setup prevents me from being able to clean the glass on the married sides, and it also prevents me from using a second MP40 in the main tank. A real pain in the butt.

Anyway, here's a picture of new sump day for good measure. I've always wanted Synergy stuff, and since their shop is only a few minutes from me it makes life easier. I finally bit the bullet and I couldn't be happier. It was also nice to get rid of the BRS dosing containers and the dog-food ATO holding tank

Tidepool is running happily, giving me great growth and color from pretty much everything in the system with the exception of a Jason Fox Jack O'Lantern leptoseris. I've been fighting to keep phosphates in the system and I think that the lepto is suffering because of it. I've recently started dosing AquaVitro Fuel so we'll see what happens, but this particular coral is my Eleanor. I've never had luck keeping a frag alive.

Here's the latest video from the tank. I'll try to get an updated one soon as I've just suddenly hit a growth spurt so I want to keep things documented.



Breakers

• 34 gallon Solana
• Apex Jr, no display

OK so I'm cheating a bit. The Solana is actually an upgrade. Right now Breakers is a 24 gallon JBJ Nanocube that I've hated for a long time. It used to sit in our office, but now it's in the bedroom and it's been nothing but a pain. I'm really looking forward to breaking it down and getting the new tank in its place, I just haven't had time to build the stand yet.

Pictures will come soon, as I think that setting up the new tank is my evening project this week.

Shimmy

• Oceanic 7 gallon Biocube
• Nothing else

I'd been tossing around the idea of setting up a softy tank for a while, letting it overgrow and go wild with just a couple of small fish to keep the corals happy. So when I ran across this 8 gallon Biocube for $20 from a local hobbyist, Shimmy was born.

As for the name? I broke convention a bit because this is really my wife's tank. She's a bellydancer and the flowing movement of the soft corals seemed fitting to a name that was a nod to her.

Here's day 1, early last week:

Lighting this tank is a challenge. The CF lighting had been gutted, which left me the option to converting it to LED. But I didn't want to toss a ton of money at a $20 tank so I've been looking at a way to do it on the cheap. My first attempt was 3 TrueLumen LED strips, but 3 of the LEDs burned out within 24 hours so now I'm back to the drawing board and considering an RapidLED retro kit.

What's Next?

That's a good question. I'm really happy with where Tidepool is right now. So happy, in fact, that I almost hate to tear it down. But the siren song of big fish is too tempting so it has to happen. Though I do think that we're going to wait out the winter and do the upgrade in the spring. Not only because it's easier, but also because we're laying new flooring when I move the tank and parts of that job are much better suited to higher temperatures.

So for now we wait, letting things grow in and picking up pieces for the new build as we find them. I still have to get my hands on 100 or so pounds of Pukani rock so that's my current hunt.

Thanks for tagging along. I'll try to do weekly updates especially on Tidepool because I've had so many people interested in seeing results from the AP700. In the mean time, if you want my thoughts on the light to date, here's a video for that too:

 

[kimba]

Pretty nice! Looks great.

 

[Defective_Weeble]

Water change today, so I grabbed a few top-down shots while the pumps were off. Joe the Coral in the first pic is coming back from being completely brown. The millepora in pic 3 should come back to a lovely pink in time.

 

[Defective_Weeble]

I don't know a whole lot about a whole lot, but I've learned a lesson or two. The most important of these lessons when it comes to reefing is this - You can absolutely set up a low-budget reef tank and have it be wildly successful. But if you'll throw just a bit of money at some specific areas, your life will get a whole lot easier.

For me, the areas that made the most difference are monitoring and automation, as well as skimming and filtration. Here's a video where I talk a little bit about my setup, and these parts in particular.

 

[Defective_Weeble]

Warning: What follows has nothing to do with my build, it's just something that's been on my mind a lot. So rather than starting a new thread for things like this I'm going to keep them inside of here. If you have thoughts or comments, feel free to add them. I couldn't care less about the build thread being "derailed".

There seems to be an "us vs. them" mentality when it comes to reefing. There are those of us who spend time and significant money to learn and create successful reef tanks. Then there are those who want everything now, for as cheap as possible. It's an interesting shift in the hobby, and it's leading to discourse and frustration for many on "our" side.

I think a few things have fallen into place in order to allow this to happen:

• The hobby reaching an age where "the good old days" can be seen as existing.
• The rise in popularity of Facebook-based reefing groups.
• The commoditization of equipment in the hobby, opening doors for a wider audience.

What we get in response to these changes is those aforementioned distinct groups. On one side you have the "old timers" and the newer ones who see wisdom in their methods. This group makes up the bulk of the members that you see on forums such as R2R and RC. They're the ones going to MACNA, RAP and other trade shows. They're the group that tends to have a better understanding of the value versus cost equation both monetarily and in time.

On the other side you have what I call "the generation of impatience". They largely make up the Facebook groups. They tend toward purchasing whatever equipment will get the job done for the least money. They're the ones who get into the hobby and decide to start selling corals a few weeks later. But perhaps more dangerous than anything else, they tend to perpetuate the spread of misinformation.

What's especially unfortunate is that there doesn't seem to be a way to bridge this gap between the groups with any sort of efficiency. Yes, some old timers will frequent the Facebook groups, trying to spread reliable and proven information. But their presence is dwarfed by the generation of impatience. Then, because of the very nature of Facebook, their informed answers are blown away like the wind when the next wave of questions and comments comes flooding in.

I don't want this to come off as a rant against Facebook reefing groups. I do think that they hold a valuable place in the hobby. But it's hard to not develop a distaste for their existence when it's a constant stream of bad behavior. For example, if you've ever spent any amount of time in one, you've likely noticed that it's the same 10-15 questions over and over:

ID this thing (It's a pineapple sponge)
ID this thing (It's a bristle worm)
Can I use these $20 lights? (Nope)
How can I save money? (By spending it on the right things the first time)
...the list goes on.

Maybe it's a generational thing, but (like many of you) when I wanted to start in this hobby I went to Google to ask questions. I found answers on forums (as I knew that I would), valuable information from people like @Randy Holmes-Farley on sites like Reefkeeping and videos from reputable sources like @mrsaltwatertank and @Bulk Reef Supply. I used logic to wade through the inevitable trash that you'll always find online and looked for sources that backed up other sources. I found my local reef club and drew upon their experiences.

The generation of impatience seems to have forgotten these vital skills for both online and in-person research. It feels like the newer people to this hobby are being done a huge disservice because of their reliance on platforms that simply aren't suited for long-term discussion and information sharing and a lack of people who are able to give them real advice. They're perpetually stuck in an echo chamber so they end up taking bad advice because it's all that they hear.

As MTRC President and fellow reefer @bknapp is quick to point out "Facebook is not for reefing", but it's increasingly being used as such. It would stand to reason then that we in the old timers group should look for ways to build a bridge, but after much thought on the subject, I'm proposing something different.

I'm leaving them alone.

Yep, I'm done. I won't answer any more questions on Facebook groups. In fact, over the past couple of weeks I've almost pulled away from them entirely. I wanted to help, and I tried to help. But somewhere around the 400th time that I was told that "ich is in every tank" and "pool filter sand is fine" I've decided to give up.

It's not that I don't care about the people who genuinely want to succeed in the hobby. Quite the opposite in fact. I think that if you truly want to be successful in anything then you'll put in the work to make it happen. In the case of reef keeping, that work will invariably lead those people to sites just like this one where I'll be more than happy to engage with them.

The older that I get, the more I value my own time. So instead of doing things that I feel are wasting it, I'm dedicating myself to being more involved in things that matter. When it comes to reefing, forums and well-researched articles matter. Facebook simply doesn't.

Anyway, that's all for now. If you've read this, thanks. If you've not, I don't blame you

 

[bknapp]

Couldn't agree any more Brad. Couldn't have put it any better myself.

Facebook isn't for Reefing. ™

 

[Defective_Weeble]

Let there be light (again)!

 

[jayjigga]

Woot lights!! I originally clicked on the thread because of the 80G, but the entirety has been entertaining.

I read the rant, and I definitely came from the "go cheapest possible route" 4-5 years ago; now I've transitioned to the "buy correctly once and done" mentality. If I could warn my past self, I hope I would have done differently and saved my funds for coral or fish rather than wasting $ on garbage. Concerning the Facebook aspect, I finally disabled the feed on the zoa group because I couldn't stand how often someone would ask for an ID on radioactive dragon eyes. I'm pretty sure if you put "zoa" in Google, the first 300 pages will probably be radioactive dragon eyes, haha...my rant ends. Thanks for the opportunity for derailment.

 

[tcoyle]

Looks like your new tank has plenty of room for Zoas!

 

[Defective_Weeble]

Looks like your new tank has plenty of room for Zoas!

Calm down there, Satan.

 

[Defective_Weeble]

I've been doing a lot of thinking and planning for the 300 lately, so I wanted to start keeping track of my thoughts here.

Initially the plan was for a 240 gallon, 96x24x24. But the more that I think about it, once you pass the 6 foot length mark I'm less of a fan of 24 inches for height. Something about it just doesn't sit right with me, so the obvious answer is to go up to 30 inches which takes me to 300 gallons.

Here are the parts that I'm pretty certain about so far:

• 300 gallon, tank and stand by Planet Aquariums
• 20 inch Synergy Reef Systems overflow, Bean Animal style
• Existing Synergy SS44 sump
• Existing Diablo DCS 250 skimmer
• Existing BRS 1.1 mL/day dosing pumps for 2 part
• Existing Synergy Reef Systems dosing container

That's pretty much it. Now for the considerations. If you have thoughts here, please add them.

EcoTech Vortech QD or Neptune WAV - I like the QD pumps from EcoTech a lot, but I also like the "less wires" feature of Neptune's approach. Yes it sucks having wires in the tank, but it's fewer wires in the system overall.

EcoTech Vectra L1 or Waveline DC12000 - This choice comes down to a bigger overall decision that I'll talk about in a minute. The Neptune COR pump doesn't meet my needs, unfortunately.

Kessil AP700 or Kessil A360 - The 360s are a lot more forgiving, since you can move them individually. But I've been a big fan of the AP700 so far. My concern is that, as the tank grows in, I have less flexibility with the AP700 to move or add lighting. Plugging a new 360 or 160 into the chain to fix shadowing or add overall intensity is incredibly easy.

T5 Supplements or No T5 Supplements - This isn't a question of performance. We already know that supplementing would give me better results. This is a question of desire to spend the money on bulbs and electricity.

Ceramic Background or Plain Glass - I am absolutely in love with the backgrounds from Korallenwelt. But I've not seen any long-term tests on them. Given what @Dowtish has seen in his tank with the Cerameco products, I'm hesitant to add them.

Manufactured Rock or Pukani - I can probably carve Pukani to the shape that I want, but I've not done it before and ruining big chunks of rock would not make me happy. Korallenwelt makes amazing structures, but the same hesitancy in adding them exists as with the backgrounds. There's also the cost issue. I'm looking at around $1200 worth of reef structure to add the Korallenwelt product.

The Neptune/EcoTech Conundrum

Here's the problem - I like the Vectra a lot, but the features of it that I find to be most compelling aren't available to control with my Apex. That may change in the future, but EcoTech doesn't seem to want to play ball there. Or maybe Neptune doesn't want to play. Whatever the case may be, it's not working yet and I don't know that it will.

In my ideal world, I'd have the Vectra with Vortech pumps, controlled by my Apex. But EcoTech seems to want to lock people in to EcoSmart Live, which is a dumb move considering that it can't control third-party components.

So the decision that I make is really one of how important my Apex control is to me. If it's really important, then the WAV + Waveline combo is probably the way to go. Yes, I can control the Vortech pumps via the Apex, but if I'm not going with the Vectra then I'm more inclined to remove all EcoTech gear from the system and keep the focus on Neptune-made or Apex-ready equipment.

 

[tcoyle]

So is the Kessil AP700 not Apex capable either? Just controlled on and off and the rest with the app?

For me, if price was similar, automation would trump everything.

 

[Defective_Weeble]

So is the Kessil AP700 not Apex capable either? Just controlled on and off and the rest with the app?

For me, if price was similar, automation would trump everything.

Correct. Though really you can't even turn it off without screwing up programming. I have the outlet set on a temperature cutoff, but that's the only interaction it has with the Apex.

However, for what it's worth, I'd use the 360s with the Kessil controller anyway. It's cheaper, works just as well and maintains memory even when power is cut.

 

[tcoyle]

Seems to me that its unfortunate that now that Neptune is moving into pumps and wave makers, other companies don't want to integrate with them natively with them anymore. Honestly that is why I went with the 360's in the first place. I want my Apex to be the brain of my tanks automation and don't want the hassle of other controllers or apps to control my tank.

 

[Defective_Weeble]

Mmmm. I love the smell of Special Blend in the morning.

Let's have a talk about cyanobacteria. I had an outbreak about 3 weeks after setting up Tidepool and a full month regimen of Special Blend didn't fix things. I finally resorted to Chemiclean, which I hate to do, but it was effective at cleaning up the pressing issue while I dealt with the underlying cause.

Dealing with cyano is like dealing with any other issue in the reef environment. We have to find the root cause. But increasingly I keep seeing bad advice being passed around (most often on Facebook) so I thought I'd take a moment to write out my experiences and thoughts here.

First and foremost, cyanobacteria is just that - a bacteria. It is a bacterial bloom akin to what we see when we get cloudy tanks. What's interesting about cyano though is that it behaves like an algae, which is what leads to the bad advice surrounding it. It is indeed photosynthetic like algae, it does feed on nutrients like algae. But simply reducing lights and nutrients won't always solve the problem because the heart of the matter is that it's bad bacteria outweighing good.

Our tanks are in a constant attempt toward finding equilibrium, and this goes for good versus bad bacteria as well. Cyanobacteria can be prevented and eradicated by the use of bacterial additives. However, this method requires more husbandry than the bandage method of Chemiclean. The hobbyist will need to perform water changes, keep feeding in check and even take livestock density into account in order to have the bacterial method work well.

I have a theory, though it's simply that - a theory:

First, we need to agree on where cyanobacteria comes from. Albert Thiel has a theory that it originates from a number of places -

• Fish slime
• Invertebrate slime
• Other life forms in the tank
• Algae and bacteria
  • dead ones or
  • live ones
• Excrements
• Excrements that contain partially digested food
• Uneaten food
• metabolic and catabolic processes
• Material on rock
  • Live rock and the life forms on it
    • alive
    • dying
  • non live rock on which and in which some life forms exist that you may or may not see because the size may be real small (again these life forms may be alive or may be dying)
• Additives you use that are high in organic material
• Live foods

So then let's look at the average tank of the biopellet user.

• Biopellet "film" - a nutrient-rich film that exists as a byproduct of the biopellet's mechanism of action.
• Low alkalinity - Pellet users aim to stay below 9 dKh, often times as low as 6.5 - 7.
• Heavy feeding - For pellet users who run mixed reefs, heavy feeding combats the super-low nutrients and keeps LPS corals happy.
• Heavy stocking - That's why most of us are using biopellets.

What we have then created is the perfect storm for cyanobacteria outbreaks. It doesn't matter that our nitrate and phosphate readings are 0/0 (or otherwise sufficiently low), there is still a large concentration of dissolved organic compounds in the water from our feeding, livestock and even our corals.

I'm having a small outbreak once again, in the same lower-flow area that I had an issue with before. I'm doing manual removal of the parts that I can see, and I started dosing Special Blend again today. Hopefully I've caught it in time and I'll be able to eradicate the bloom via bacterial dosing alone.

 

[tcoyle]

Great write up. As you might remember I had a nasty cyno outbreak after setting up my tank and used Special Blend (2 bottles worth) What finally ended the cycle was Dr Tim's Wast Away with maintaing my husbandry.

 

[Defective_Weeble]

Great write up. As you might remember I had a nasty cyno outbreak after setting up my tank and used Special Blend (2 bottles worth) What finally ended the cycle was Dr Tim's Wast Away with maintaing my husbandry.

I've heard good things about Waste Away, but I've also read horror stories from people who dosed too quickly so it makes me nervous. If I don't see a notable reduction over the next couple of weeks I think that's my next stop.

 

[tcoyle]

Yeah I read those reviews as well and I think its people who just don't know how to read and just dump crap in their tank. The first dose, I went under what they recommend and slowly increased. But I do understand your concern.

 

[Defective_Weeble]

It's interesting to see my own findings on the AP700 validated by BRS's tests. They say that the AP700 provides more even spread of an ideal PAR than anything else that they tested.

 

[Defective_Weeble]

As you might have seen in the video, I built a very simplistic mixing/pumping station a few weeks back. When I did it, I grabbed a relatively cheap garden hose to pump water into the tank. But ever since I bought it, it's bugged me for three reasons -

First, the metal fitting on the end that pumps into the tank. It's probably brass, which means that it's made up of copper and zinc, so every time that I use it I'm risking the system. I've done 4 water changes with it and the tank is doing better than I've ever seen it before, so chances are things are ok. But I really don't want to risk it long term.

The second problem comes with rolling up this hose. I just can't cleanly roll the thing up onto the wall hanger. There always seems to be a kink or a coil that doesn't want to lay right. 9 times out of 10 I end up dropping the 25 feet or so that I use onto the floor and just letting it sit versus trying to fight it.

The third issue is the one that's really been bugging me. What is my water picking up from inside the hose? I can't fully drain the hose when I'm done, so I know that I have some water sitting there for sometimes up to 7 days between uses.

All said, I knew that I had to find a better solution but I just couldn't seem to do it. I looked at the Pocket Hoses because of how they collapse, but the terrible reviews kept me away from it. Other collapsable hoses (at least those with decent reviews) topped the $100 mark and that's a bit more than I wanted to spend on an experiment.

But then tonight I ran across this thing on Amazon that looks like it might be the perfect answer. It's a hose called Clear Flow and it answers all of my issues. It has nylon fittings, it collapses when the pressure is off to allow for easy storage and best of all the darn thing drains itself, meaning that I'll have considerably less water sitting in the hose between water changes.

At $50 for the 50 foot hose it's not exactly cheap, but if this thing works it's a fantastic tool for the reefing hobby.