Crooked LFS

Atomikk · Oct 12, 2008

Hey guys,

I want to share this with you all as we here in Toronto (Canada) are experiencing some scandalous events. One of your LFS is begging their former customers to give them feedback on why they have never come back, and alienated them. This thread was soo juicy that I had to inquire and do some digging up as it was a lot more than it met the eye.

Then I found out more from suppliers and other LFS owners. Stuff you will read is unbelievable.

It teaches you that you can't even trust an honest looking guys that run a reef store.

Read these in order as it will spoil the ending.

1. Thread
2. http://blog.fragd.it/2008/10/01/the-lfs-that-couldnt/
3. http://blog.fragd.it/2008/10/08/the-lfs-that-couldnt-part-2/
4. http://blog.fragd.it/2008/10/09/the-lfs-that-couldnt-part-3/

I am sure after reading that some of you can relate to the practices that these guys employed. It is sad that we have people like this in the hobby who are not adding anything positively.

I and many are never going to go back there, even if they are giving away free corals.

What do you guys think about this? Has anyone had any bad experiences with their LFSs?

ahayes13 · Oct 12, 2008

wow, what a shame. terrible that they would be ripping off their suppliers and not paying their bills. you cant treat your suppliers or customers this way and they shouldnt be surprised if none of their previous customers never come back.

Atomikk · Oct 12, 2008

They have alienated most of their core customers, and now their suppliers. I know this because I talk with a lot of people in our market about things.

paintballer768 · Oct 12, 2008

Wow talk about the scourge of the LFS's. Thats one crazy story

Zombo · Oct 12, 2008

fail.

ConcreteReefer · Oct 12, 2008

This happens more often than you know and not an isolated incident at all. I have stopped buying from all LFS's and do my shopping online.

bluegrass · Oct 12, 2008

wow!!!

GMaquarium · Oct 12, 2008

Thats too bad. Its SOB's like that who give LFS a bad reputation. Peronally don't see how buying on line is better. But I guess if you can't see who you are dealing with you can't know if they are bad or good. For some people not knowing is better I take it.

ahayes13 · Oct 12, 2008

well we have an lfs that from what i understand they owe a lot of people money. they even left their old location because owing so much money apparently on the rent or whatever,,,, just to leave there and move to another location. but what upsets me the most is that at the wholesaler when most people would take their time being careful picking out their fish and putting them into the containers. he takes 3 or so larger fish and throws them all into one of those clear containers together. and they are packed in like a sandwich and cant even move. that to me is very upsetting. after hearing and knowing of too many things i dont ever go back in there. theyve also when running out of saltwater used tap water and just added the salt to it... ugh...

reef-nut · Oct 12, 2008

I know of some LFS in the states that are like this and a few reefers.

Burks · Oct 12, 2008

What I don't get is, do the other suppliers not know about this? Why do they continue to deal with known stores that do not pay their bills?

With all the references they ask for on the forms, you'd think they'd have better communication. Then again....could be a business advantage to NOT share that info.

Reef Pets · Oct 12, 2008

It sounds as if they were trying to sell wholesale and that did not work out for them. So, no they are trying to build back the confidence of the local buyers.
As for not paying suppliers..... I have been buying and selling coral for a long time. Not once have I ever been able to get a shipment without paying in advance. There is a good chance that might not be true.

Hypertek99 · Oct 12, 2008

Why would you ship something to someone if you haven't gotten the money for it?? That's just dumb

Reef Pets · Oct 12, 2008

Hypertek99 said:
Why would you ship something to someone if you haven't gotten the money for it?? That's just dumb

I completely agree. There is one guy on there confirming the story, from what I read. I did not want to read all of the pages therefore I skimmed through. But, you never know what the full story is. If they were selling in large quantity/wholesale for the past 6-8 months then they had to be paying some if not all of there bills or they would not have had the coral to sell.
Sounds like some disgruntled buys that feel they got the raw end of the deal.

Looks like Reef Raft is trying to recover from some bad decisions. We all make bad decisions and some of us step up to the plate afterwards and some dont. I can respect the integrity that Reef Raft has brought forth. They screwed up and admitting it.

Being that the story is wide spread with a supplier stating true/false statement I hope that it does not become an issue of Slander.

Atomikk · Oct 12, 2008

Slander would only be present if the stories are not true. If their supplier went out of his way to write up all of this, which I have partly confirmed with other sources, chances are that the story holds up.

They (ReefRaft) sold tonnes of corals, especially Aussie, to US retailers. That is where they made their money. This is how they could afford to leave the store for 6-8 months without having any new stock.

Now they are trying to bring back the customers that they screwed over...

AquaWorldPSC · Oct 13, 2008

I agree with reefer that i have never got a shipment without paying for it before they ship it. I guess i can see that if you build a good relationship they might. Back when acans were really hot i was thinking about dealing with RR but I'm glad i didn't.

Before we went retail we did wholesale back in 2000-2003 and we supplied many LFS and out of state LFS. I remember one guy that did the same thing, not pay for the shipments and always pay me little by little. This guy is similar to RR, he would use the chemicals off of his shelf and fill them with water or paritally with water. Also he would screw over his customers and employees left to right. He would pay his empolyees 2 weeks late. But long story short he went out of business.

Reef Pets · Oct 13, 2008

Being in the business its hard to believe that they were getting coral and supplies without paying in advance. (The hard to believe statement is not directed toward you. I realize that you are just passing on the information) I have never heard of such a thing. It would be like going to Wal-Mart and walking out with an item stating it will be payed for later. This business and all other types of business that buy and sell, you have to buy first.
Of course I can not guarantee this is the case with Reef Raft but paying in advance is the typical business pactice in coral sales. If the suppliers have not been paid then new coral would not be coming in the door of Reef Raft to supply US retailers or customers.

I am not trying to argue with you! When I read the forums about it, as you said customers feel as if they were screwed over. So these people are running Reef Raft into the ground. Again, sounds like they tried to sell wholesale and that did not work out. Now they are trying to recover there customers. Maybe not the best way to go about it but there is no crime in admitting your mistakes.

Maybe I am looking at it all wrong? I am looking at it from a business point of view. They went from a store front to selling wholesale. This made the customers mad! Now that they are going from wholesale to retail I am sure the wholesalers are mad at them. Seems to me that Reef Raft cant win....... But, I do know for a fact that they did not take off for 6-8 months from ripping people off. I purchased wholesale from them a couple months ago. Hopefully it works out for everyone!

Atomikk · Oct 13, 2008

I know of one of our local FS that frequently gets last minute calls that a shipment is being sent to their location, without actually being paid for. This is due to their business relationship. Maybe that had some role in this scenario. Wholesalers trusted RR based on their previous dealings. And now they are down big time.

If you sell coral that you havent paid for, all of the proceeds are profits. Therefore, you can easily run your store for 6-8 months on stock sold as 'hot'.

GMaquarium · Oct 13, 2008

I have lots of trusted suppliers some I have worked with from day one back in the ninties. All have our business credit card on file and charge me before the boxes go out. Im not saying its not true, I don't know any of these people. But very strange that they shipped without payment. Also if they didn't pay for one order why did the wholesale keep sending orders.