The PSYCHOLOGY of Water Changes

[ZoWhat]

I have a mental block doing weekly or bimonthly WCs.... I need a Support Group like R2R. LOL!!!!!

Heres my psychological internal dialogue I have with myself as I stand over my sump ready for a weekly or bimonthly WC:

"Dang, I'm about to put 20% of GOOD saltwater down the drain. Salt mix is expensive. I feel like I'm dumping out 20% of GOOD beer out of my fridge or something...I feel like I'm throwing away 20% of my frozen steaks in the freezer. WHAT A WASTE......."

Anyone else feel this way?

Many times I'm on the couch watching TV and that thought of a needed WC comes to mind then I go back into the internal dialogue above....and I put it off.


.

 

[Pete_the_Puma]

Go full Triton,

No need for water changes unless you are trying to achieve a specific goal.

 

[ZoWhat]

Go full Triton,

No need for water changes unless you are trying to achieve a specific goal.

Ok.....

I go thru about $400 in salt mix a year.

What would Triton cost me:
1) in initial setup cost?
2) yearly in dosing material?

.

 

[erk]

I enjoy my water changes. Granted my tank is only 70 gallons total water volume. If I had to do water changes on 150-200 gallon total volume, then I'd start thinking of another option.

 

[TheHarold]

I do over 50%+ water changes just for the fun of it, so I can’t say I relate lol. 50g on my 70g display

 

[Justin Cook]

Funny you should mention this because I feel almost exactly the opposite. When I stand over my system getting ready for a water change I think of all the trace elements and other good stuff in the fresh saltwater that keeps me from dosing. For some reason I almost feel like it's a savings! Of course I could be completely wrong but I do frequent smaller water changes to help limit buying all of those $20 bottles of additives.

 

[homer1475]

See the problem lies with having to manually do WC's.

I plumbed my tank to my WC station so all I have to do is turn on a pump, flip a couple valves, and in 10 minutes turn it all off. I do weekly 20G WC's with ease.

When I had to do them manually, I loathed the process.

 

[Pete_the_Puma]

Ok.....

I go thru about $400 in salt mix a year.

What would Triton cost me:
1) in initial setup cost?
2) yearly in dosing material?

.

The question is: How much is your TIME worth?

If you have tons of spare time and want to save money then sure, doing water changes might be reasonable, hoping you get to dilute all elements that are in excess and hoping to replenish all elements that are lacking by kind of relying on luck.

If you value your time then I think testing and replenishing only what you know is lacking makes more sense to me, although I will agree that ICP testing and Triton reagents will likely cost you slightly more.


And for full disclosure: I've only been doing the Triton thing for about 2 months now, We will see if I have any major issues down the road I definitely might change my mind.

 

[homer1475]

The question is: How much is your TIME worth?

If you have tons of spare time and want to save money then sure, doing water changes might be reasonable, hoping you get to dilute all elements that are in excess and hoping to replenish all elements that are lacking by kind of relying on luck.

If you value your time then I think testing and replenishing only what you know is lacking makes more sense to me, although I will agree that ICP testing and Triton reagents will likely cost you slightly more.


And for full disclosure: I've only been doing the Triton thing for about 2 months now, We will see if I have any major issues down the road I definitely might change my mind.

Question also lies, how long does a WC take, and how long does testing and dosing take? In my system it takes more time to test the big 3, nitrate and phosphates, then it does to do a WC(red sea pro nitrate test takes minimum 11 minutes).

 

[TaylorPilot]

Am I the only one hung up on the whole frozen steaks thing?

 

[Pete_the_Puma]

Question also lies, how long does a WC take, and how long does testing and dosing take? In my system it takes more time to test the big 3, nitrate and phosphates, then it does to do a WC(red sea pro nitrate test takes minimum 11 minutes).

Hopefully you are not relying on water changes to "dose" or "remove" N or P or the big three. Nitrate and Phosphate removal at any significant scale is usually handled by the skimmer, algea scrubber, biopellets, Zeovit, PhosMedia, carbon dosing or whatever you use. Most people with SPS will have either two part dosing or a calcium reactor for the CA,MG and ALk.

It really leaves the "trace" elements as the sole reason to do water changes really, and doing it without testing is relying on a bit of luck to get things right. ICP testing takes all of 3 minutes to fill the tubes and place them in the box, certainly faster than a water changes (but expensive, yes) and most importantly much less of a pain in the _____ .

 

[andrewkw]

I enjoy my weekly water changes as well. It's a good opportunity to look at everything with no flow, from the top and overall inspect. While I don't see every single piece every single week, this does enable me to catch things much faster then if I did not. This is also when I do my main target feeding for the week.

If you don't want to waste the water setup another tank. FO, softy ect. I recycle all of my water. Sometimes as many as 3 times. From main display to other display, to frag tank, to qt tank. If I know I'm buying fish in 2 weeks I'll save one water change in a barrel with a powerhead ect. The further down the line of tanks the less important water quality is. For my smaller tanks I also get water closer to my regular parameters right out of the main display, and I don't worry about adding 10-15 gallons of super high alk IO for example since it has little effect on the larger water volume.

 

[homer1475]

Hopefully you are not relying on water changes to "dose" or "remove" N or P or the big three. Nitrate and Phosphate removal at any significant scale is usually handled by the skimmer, algea scrubber, biopellets, Zeovit, PhosMedia, carbon dosing or whatever you use. Most people with SPS will have either two part dosing or a calcium reactor for the CA,MG and ALk.

Certainly not, just using the time it takes to do a WC Vs. the time it takes to test the big 3, No3 and PO4.

Now that you bring it up, I'm not fully up to par on the triton method, but I have done a few ICP tests. Curious as to how do you react to adverse conditions when a triton test takes so long to get the results back using the triton method?

 

[harthag12]

I change roughly 25g a week. Personally I think the other way, look at all that depleted water full of Nitrates, time to put some good stuff back in. Of course my tank is new & young so currently it's not really depleted but I figure at some point it will be. I have a Brute can full of water for salt, throw salt in Wednesday night while putzing around & let it mix overnight. Thursday it's 20 minutes to do the change, it's not really a huge task. Once the 2nd tank finishes cycling I may have other thoughts having to change two.

 

[Journeyman]

I don't... Do triton/zeofit per say, but I've been running a fuge and skimmer filtration methods for years. I just dose as needed and do kalk in my top off.

I'm running SPS dominant with the majority being acros. I'm also heavy stocked in fish.

I find that I rarely need to do water changes. Maybe 10% once or twice a year. And mostly I figure that's just too replenish elements I can't dose.

My corals are all doing fine. Encrusting and showing good polyp extension.

My tank does have some hair algae on the back wall, so it's not as sparkling as some SPS systems, but it's not over running the tank and I figure it's good natural nutrient control.

 

[Peace River]

See the problem lies with having to manually do WC's. [...]

When I had to do them manually, I loathed the process.

I look at my manual water changes as an important part of my personal fitness program. Good for the fish, good for me! ;Happy

 

[Pete_the_Puma]

Certainly not, just using the time it takes to do a WC Vs. the time it takes to test the big 3, No3 and PO4.

Now that you bring it up, I'm not fully up to par on the triton method, but I have done a few ICP tests. Curious as to how do you react to adverse conditions when a triton test takes so long to get the results back using the triton method?

Well as I stated before, I'm not an expert on the Triton thing, I've only been drinking their CoolAid for about 2-3 months now, but the bottom line is this:

Nitrates and phosphates: These are removed by the combination of Algea in the refugium and protein skimmer. The ALk/mag/Cal supplements for the triton method also have some trace elements that are known to be used up by growing macroalgea (Iron and Molybdenum? come to mind) to promote healthy marcoalgea growth. If you are having what you called "adverse conditions" especially if related to algea/cyano/dinos you should test N and P the old fashioned way, and deal with it as you would otherwise. No need to wait for and waste an ICP test. Bottom line is: no need for water changes from a Nitrate or Phosphate removal standpoint.

Alk/Cal/Mag: These and some trace elements are replenished by using their 2 part (well 4 parts really) supplements. You still test ALK on a regular basis the old fashioned way (unless you have a Triednt or one of them other fancy automatic Alk devices!) and adjust dosing of the ALk/Mg/Cal supplements base on your alkalinity usage. Bottome line again: no need for water changes from a Alk/Cal/Mg dosing standpoint.

Now so far most advanced reefers will agree. If you press them on why they do water changes no one would really say its to remove N and P at any significant scale and no serious acroholic would dare rely on water changes alone to replenish Alk/Mag/cal. Most of them will say they do water changes to replenish trace elements.

Trace elements: This is where the Triton method really shines in my opinion. In the past you would have to rely on water changes and blind luck. This also assumes whatever salt you are using has the elements in "perfect" amounts. Lets say element Z has a desired concentration of 20ppm in the ocean and is used up by growing corals and your tank level is down to 10ppm, a 20% water changes with fresh water at 20ppm of element Z concentration will only get you to 12 ppm, still a far cry from where you need to be!

With ICP testing you take all the guessing out of the trace elements equation. You test the water and replenish as needed (or rarely do a water change to dilute something that is somehow in excess). Bottom line: no need for water changes from a trace element replenishing standpoint.

If there is no reason for water changes from a Nitrate and Phosphate removal standpoint, none from a Alk/Cal/Mg dosing standpoint and none from a trace element standpoint then why are you doing water changes?

There is also some possible benefit from the macroalgea releasing some carbohydrates into the water that are beneficial for corals, but that is going to be hard to prove in my opinion. Just putting it in here as it is, per the documentation from Triton, one of the other benefits of their method.

 

[WVNed]

Well as I stated before, I'm not an expert on the Triton thing, I've only been drinking their CoolAid for about 2-3 months now, but the bottom line is this:

Nitrates and phosphates: These are removed by the combination of Algea in the refugium and protein skimmer. The ALk/mag/Cal supplements for the triton method also have some trace elements that are known to be used up by growing macroalgea (Iron and Molybdenum? come to mind) to promote healthy marcoalgea growth. If you are having what you called "adverse conditions" especially if related to algea/cyano/dinos you should test N and P the old fashioned way, and deal with it as you would otherwise. No need to wait for and waste an ICP test. Bottom line is: no need for water changes from a Nitrate or Phosphate removal standpoint.

Alk/Cal/Mag: These and some trace elements are replenished by using their 2 part (well 4 parts really) supplements. You still test ALK on a regular basis the old fashioned way and adjust dosing of the ALk/Mg/Cal supplements base on your alkalinity usage. Bottome line again: no need for water changes from a Alk/Cal/Mg dosing standpoint.

Now so far most advanced reefers will agree. If you press them on why they do water changes no one would really say its to remove N and P at any significant scale and no serious acroholic would dare rely on water changes alone to replenish Alk/Mag/cal. Most of them will say they do water changes to replenish trace elements.

Trace elements: This is where the Triton method really shines in my opinion. In the past you would have to rely on water changes and blind luck. This also assumes whatever salt you are using has the elements in "perfect" amounts. Lets say element Z has a desired concentration of 20ppm in the ocean and is used up by growing corals and your tank level is down to 10ppm, a 20% water changes with fresh water at 20ppm of element Z concentration will only get you to 12 ppm, still a far cry from where you need to be!

With ICP testing you take all the guessing out of the trace elements equation. You test the water and replenish as needed (or rarely do a water change to dilute something that is somehow in excess). Bottom line: no need for water changes from a trace element replenishing standpoint.

If there is no reason for water changes from a Nitrate and Phosphate removal standpoint, none from a Alk/Cal/Mg dosing standpoint and none from a trace element standpoint then why are you doing water changes?

There is also some possible benefit from the macroalgea releasing some carbohydrates into the water, but that is going to be hard to prove in my opinion.

Because I don't have to do any of the stuff you do. It works for me. It's dead simple. I kind of needed that for a while.
No testing, no dosing, no refugium.
No buckets and hoses for me either.
I did a 60 gallon WC in 30 minutes this morning.

 

[PaulPerger]

Am I the only one hung up on the whole frozen steaks thing?

No. Steaks don't belong in the freezer... They belong on the grill.

 

[TheHarold]

No. Steaks don't belong in the freezer... They belong on the grill.

Or alternatively, in my stomach