0.0 Phosphates even after dosing

[KStatefan]

I have to ask, how are you typing subscripts on the forum??

I could never get the alt code to work but you can copy and paste from one of the website alt code chart. I started to make a excell spreadsheet with all that I used commonly but then decided it was not worth the effort

 

[Jimmy Smits IV]

I dosed NeoPhos for several weeks in a new tank and it kept reading 0.00 until suddenly I had .5+ phosphate. Im just assuming it takes a while to hit the equilibrium point from the dry rock soaking it up.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I dosed NeoPhos for several weeks in a new tank and it kept reading 0.00 until suddenly I had .5+ phosphate. Im just assuming it takes a while to hit the equilibrium point from the dry rock soaking it up.

Well, it’s not a sudden point. The amount bound will steadily rise even after it becomes detectable. :)

 

[Reef Puncher]

5 month old tank started with dry rock. I've been dosing neophos for almost 2 weeks with practically 0.0 readings on a Hanna within 24 hours. I just dosed 4.5ml in a 42 gallon tank and tested within 2 hours, 0.0. Am I going crazy or is this expected?

my guess is the test is wrong. i have 2 types of tests for all 5 parameters. everyone needs two of all to cross reference if your getting wierd numbers. i rely on my hannah which is super accurate, i have the low not the ultra low hannah, and i have a salifert as backup as they are cheap.

also, reef roids is an EXCELLENT way to raise phosphates, even just a teaspoon of that stuff will raise my phosphates a whole point.

 

[JonasRoman]

5 month old tank started with dry rock. I've been dosing neophos for almost 2 weeks with practically 0.0 readings on a Hanna within 24 hours. I just dosed 4.5ml in a 42 gallon tank and tested within 2 hours, 0.0. Am I going crazy or is this expected?

I am very curious about the exact content. As Brightwell doesn't say that, I am immediately suspicious. Because if you measure PO4 2 hours after dosing you should definitely get a value, even if PO4 is absorbed in your system quick. Consumption due to bacterial activity will not go that fast. and chemical precipitation I do not believe in as long as your pH is not above 8.4 which I guess it isn't. So, I would test the NeoPhos bottle. Like this: Make 1 liter pure SW, add Neophos to that to reach for instance 0.2 ppm PO4. Measure immediately with Hanna. Would be very interesting to see thet result of that test.

Sincerely Jonas

 

[mcarroll]

5 month old tank started with dry rock. I've been dosing neophos for almost 2 weeks with practically 0.0 readings on a Hanna within 24 hours. I just dosed 4.5ml in a 42 gallon tank and tested within 2 hours, 0.0. Am I going crazy or is this expected?

You probably aren't crazy....I just think you aren't dosing very much.

That's good to hear. I dosed 8ml the other day and it only raised my phosphate to .028.. If I was shooting for a .1ppm I'd have to probably dose 32ml daily to get there. I may try a 16ml dose tomorrow AM and see where I'm at when I get home.

The instructions on the bottle only have you dosing up to 0.02 ppm....might not even be detectable depending not he test kit – that's LOW!

Consider targeting 0.10 ppm with your first dose and go from there.

 

[shawnt2011]

I am very curious about the exact content. As Brightwell doesn't say that, I am immediately suspicious. Because if you measure PO4 2 hours after dosing you should definitely get a value, even if PO4 is absorbed in your system quick. Consumption due to bacterial activity will not go that fast. and chemical precipitation I do not believe in as long as your pH is not above 8.4 which I guess it isn't. So, I would test the NeoPhos bottle. Like this: Make 1 liter pure SW, add Neophos to that to reach for instance 0.2 ppm PO4. Measure immediately with Hanna. Would be very interesting to see thet result of that test.

Sincerely Jonas

Thanks for the reply. Someone else suggested simply spiking the giant with neophos which I did. I took 9ml of saltwater and added 1ml of neophos. As soon as I added the regent it went dark dark purple, and Hanna read 200+ and was flashing. I haven't tried a smaller concentration in such fashion as you suggested but it makes sense. My water is clear as clear after the test as it is before.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Neophos is very weak and I suggest using food grade sodium phosphate, which also carries a purity assurance the hobby product lacks.

 

[BriDroid]

From personal experience with a new tank with dry rock and "live" bagged sand. You have to dose a TON over a long period to get levels that are readable! I would personally ditch the Neophos and go with food grade trisodium phosphate, it's cheaper and you can make the concentration that you want. You'll get there, just keep dosing and measuring!

 

[Reginald Reefer III]

Neophos is very weak and I suggest using food grade sodium phosphate, which also carries a purity assurance the hobby product lacks.

They also have a 'professional' version that is considerably more concentrated, but at the same time, much easier to overdose if you aren't careful.

 

[shawnt2011]

I ordered some Sodium phosphate dibasic since the current efforts and products aren't providing results.

 

[mcarroll]

I ordered some Sodium phosphate dibasic since the current efforts and products aren't providing results.

I'd be careful spending on a hair trigger like that...at least in this hobby. ;)

Nobody was saying NeoPhos couldn't work or that sodium phosphate is "better" per se.

They were saying NeoPhos is more expensive....which is usually not an issue with the smaller quantities we use.

Sodium Phosphate is cheaper, and DIY chemistry is great, but it comes without mixing or usage instructions, and might only come in "lifetime supply" sizes....definitely not for everyone. Plus who are you buying from? Are they trustworthy or completely unknown? Would you even know if they mixed in 10% sodium bicarbonate to rip you off slightly?

Regardless of what you use, dose to a higher target like I said and you will have residual PO4 in the water.
Once you obtain that, usually less dosing is required...maybe even none.

Dosing a mere 0.02 ppm when your tank is in deficit is like giving a thirsty person a damp sponge to drink from....UNSATISFYING! :)

For what it's worth, I've never seen anyone have an actual issue with NeoPhos, and I don't think you're having one either. Zillions of folks use it successfully. Seachem flourish is another option that's easier to get sometimes. Both seem to be a good, useful concentration at a price that's reasonable.

 

[shawnt2011]

An update to this. I'm currently having to dose 60 ML of neophos to maintain .06 phosphate. I'm splitting this into two doses after testing in the morning and evening.

Maybe neophos would be a stable maintenance product, but to have to dose 60 ML daily in a 43 gallon tank seems to be a bit excessive. I did buy products previously recommended by the masses on the forum and not from a corner store, so I'm hoping that the DIY solution proves to be more effective and worth while.

Ultimately, I hope my hydroid issue goes away and I can just feed the tank normally and that would suffice as my import..

 

[liudachris]

An update to this. I'm currently having to dose 60 ML of neophos to maintain .06 phosphate. I'm splitting this into two doses after testing in the morning and evening.

Maybe neophos would be a stable maintenance product, but to have to dose 60 ML daily in a 43 gallon tank seems to be a bit excessive. I did buy products previously recommended by the masses on the forum and not from a corner store, so I'm hoping that the DIY solution proves to be more effective and worth while.

Ultimately, I hope my hydroid issue goes away and I can just feed the tank normally and that would suffice as my import..

Your rock is probably binding all the phosphate that you are dosing. I had the same problem before as well and was going through large quantities of Neophos. I ended up making my own solution using Loudwolf Trisodium Phosphate. You have a little more control over how much liquid is being dosed because you can alter the concentration of the solution. Below is how I did the math. I was shooting for 1 ml of solution raising my tank PO4 by 0.01. Oddly enough, it was not sufficient and I ended up having to concentrate the solution by 128x to get my PO4 levels to 0.10 so those chemists out there, feel free to check my math.

The calculations are based on a 135 gallon water volume. I hope this helps.

3NaPO4
Molar Mass = 164
Solubility at 20 C = 14 g/100 mL at 25 C = 70 g/500 mL
%Phosphate = 58%

1 ppm = 1 mg/1L = 512 mg PO4/512 L
512 mg PO4/882 mg 3NaPO4 = 58% (882 mg 3NaPO4 needed to raise 1 ppm in 512 L)
8.82 mg 3NaPO4 (amount needed to raise 0.01 ppm in 512 L)
8.82 mg 3NaPO4/1 ml = 0.00882 g 3NaPO4/1 ml = 0.039 g/500 ml = 0.0585 g/750 ml (1 ml of this solution should raise tank by 0.01 ppm)

 

[mcarroll]

An update to this. I'm currently having to dose 60 ML of neophos to maintain .06 phosphate. I'm splitting this into two doses after testing in the morning and evening.

Maybe neophos would be a stable maintenance product, but to have to dose 60 ML daily in a 43 gallon tank seems to be a bit excessive. I did buy products previously recommended by the masses on the forum and not from a corner store, so I'm hoping that the DIY solution proves to be more effective and worth while.

Ultimately, I hope my hydroid issue goes away and I can just feed the tank normally and that would suffice as my import..

You'll have to see how it pans out I guess, but it's very typical to have to dose a lot initially and then less over time.

 

[Lareng]

I have never been able to figure out how to do that, AND you're literally the only poster I've ever seen to do that, and I follow discussions on the Chem forum

When you figure out what you did, please message me!

If you use your mobile you can use text replacement and copy paste the PO₄ and add shortcut po4 and you are good to go.
And the same for NO₂ and NO₃

 

[mcarroll]

If you use your mobile you can use text replacement and copy paste the PO₄ and add shortcut po4 and you are good to go.
And the same for NO₂ and NO₃

This is much easier to set up on your computer and sync to the phone (at least for me).

Another option is to add the super- or sub-scripts you are interested in to your "Emoji Favorites"....or at least it used to work....just noticed my favorites list was eliminated and when I try to add super- or sub-scripted numbers, just the plain number appears in the Favorites list.

But these super- and sub- characters exist in the emoji catalog....not too hard to search for and use, even if it's harder than using the favorites list.

¹₁²₂³₃⁴₄

Luckily they also appear at the top of the emoji search for the digit being queried, so not entirely inconvenient.