<0.5 ppm Phosphats too High?

Joe Tony

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Just a quick question. I tested my reef tank with hanna for nitrates, and the result came to 0.21 ppm, and I was wondering if that was a healthy amount of phosphates for my 30 gallon saltwater nano tank. I've got a few coral frags in it, and a gorgonian, along with three fish, and a good cleanup crew. What phosphate levels to you guys try to keep your tanks at? The nitrates are also 2-5ppm, if that helps
 

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Just a quick question. I tested my reef tank with hanna for nitrates phosphates and the result came to 0.21 ppm, and I was wondering if that was a healthy amount of phosphates for my 30 gallon saltwater nano tank. I've got a few coral frags in it, and a gorgonian, along with three fish, and a good cleanup crew. What phosphate levels to you guys try to keep your tanks at? The nitrates are also 2-5ppm, if that helps
I think 0.21 is ok . Its a bit high but will work. A lot of people say 0.1 is a good target
 

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I try to keep my phosphates 0.03-0.07 but I’m fine with all the way up to 0.1. I get worried if it’s higher then that or lower then 0.03. I like my alk a little higher so nutrients have to be a little higher to keep up.
 
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I think 0.21 is ok . Its a bit high but will work. A lot of people say 0.1 is a good target
Are phosphates as high as 0.21 a potential cause for stunted recovery in corals? My red monti has been bleached for a few weeks and, while it hasn't gotten much worse, it also hasn't gotten much better. And my gorgonian also has been depleted of its skin, though when I first bought it, it showed no sign of necrosis.

All my other parameters are good and algae is well managed in the tank.
 

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Are phosphates as high as 0.21 a potential cause for stunted recovery in corals? My red monti has been bleached for a few weeks and, while it hasn't gotten much worse, it also hasn't gotten much better. And my gorgonian also has been depleted of its skin, though when I first bought it, it showed no sign of necrosis.

All my other parameters are good and algae is well managed in the tank.
With a monti struggling you’re gonna have to post your water params, sorry
 

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Are phosphates as high as 0.21 a potential cause for stunted recovery in corals? My red monti has been bleached for a few weeks and, while it hasn't gotten much worse, it also hasn't gotten much better. And my gorgonian also has been depleted of its skin, though when I first bought it, it showed no sign of necrosis.

All my other parameters are good and algae is well managed in the tank.
Yes, absolutely. Phosphate that high will inhibit the corals ability to calcify. Here is a good article.http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-09/rhf/index.php#5
 
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Yes, absolutely. Phosphate that high will inhibit the corals ability to calcify. Here is a good article.http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-09/rhf/index.php#5
Alright, so what can I do to consistently keep my phosphates down? I feed my fish once a day, and put plankton in for the corals three times a week. I'll also throw in an occasional piece of silver side for the inverts. Lately I've cooled it with water changes, mainly because I my nitrates seemed to be way too low for corals, but before that I was changing 2 gallons of water every single week. Should I get back on that regiment?
 

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Well, there are a variety of methods to keeping your phosphates low and in check such as using GFO, refugium, bacteria, lanthium chloride, changing filtration media often, water changes, etc. I would aim for a level <0.1 but not zero as that could instigate other adverse effects. Weekly water changes of 10-20% could be enough for you to control nutrients but one of the other options may need to be implemented as well.
 
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Joe Tony

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Well, there are a variety of methods to keeping your phosphates low and in check such as using GFO, refugium, bacteria, lanthium chloride, changing filtration media often, water changes, etc. I would aim for a level <0.1 but not zero as that could instigate other adverse effects. Weekly water changes of 10-20% could be enough for you to control nutrients but one of the other options may need to be implemented as well.
Alright, thanks for the tip. I'll see what I can do. By the way, I love your username and icon
 

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Just a quick question. I tested my reef tank with hanna for nitrates, and the result came to 0.21 ppm, and I was wondering if that was a healthy amount of phosphates for my 30 gallon saltwater nano tank. I've got a few coral frags in it, and a gorgonian, along with three fish, and a good cleanup crew. What phosphate levels to you guys try to keep your tanks at? The nitrates are also 2-5ppm, if that helps
So here you say nitrates are 2-5 then few posts down you say nitrates are .5 that’s a huge difference and probably the problem
 

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.5 nitrates with an alk of almost 11 will cause problems either lower alk or raise nitrates
 
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Joe Tony

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.5 nitrates with an alk of almost 11 will cause problems either lower alk or raise nitrates
Why would raising nitrates with a high alkalinity be the solution? How do alkalinity and nitrates relate to each other in regards to coral?
 

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If it was my tabnk I would be looking at some other cause than PO4 being at .21 mg/l. Phosphorus can be a hotly debated topic sometimes. Here's some of the research showing it's effects on corals. A couple of the findings by researchers is corals photobiology can be severly impacted with too low of phosphate and a threshold level of .03 has been identified as a minimum level to avoid the risk of this happening. Research has also shown increasing PO4 levels increases growth. More and more research is showing a corals microbiont is critical and disrutptions can cause problems as well as nitrate potentially can cause bleaching.

Forest Rohwer "Coral Reefs in the Microbial Seas"


Changing Seas - Mysterious Microbes


Nitrogen cycling in hte coral holobiont


Richard Ross What's up with phosphate"


An Experimental Mesocosm for Longterm Studies of Reef Corals

Phosphate Deficiency:
Nutrient enrichment can increase the susceptibility of reef corals to bleaching:

Ultrastructural Biomarkers in Symbiotic Algae Reflect the Availability of Dissolved Inorganic Nutrients and Particulate Food to the Reef Coral Holobiont:

Phosphate deficiency promotes coral bleaching and is reflected by the ultrastructure of symbiotic dinoflagellates

Effects of phosphate on growth and skeletal density in the scleractinian coral Acropora muricata: A controlled experimental approach

High phosphate uptake requirements of the scleractinian coral Stylophora pistillata

Phosphorus metabolism of reef organisms with algal symbionts


Sponge symbionts and the marine P cycle

Phosphorus sequestration in the form of polyphosphate by microbial symbionts in marine sponges

Sugar enrichment provides evidence for a role of nitrogen fixation in coral bleaching

Elevated ammonium delays the impairment of the coral-dinoflagellate symbiosis during labile carbon pollution
(here's an argument for maintaining heavy fish loads if you're carbon dosing)

Excess labile carbon promotes the expression of virulence factors in coral reef bacterioplankton

Unseen players shape benthic competition on coral reefs.


Unravelling the different effects of nitrate and ammonium effects on coral bleaching
 
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Joe Tony

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So here you say nitrates are 2-5 then few posts down you say nitrates are .5 that’s a huge difference and probably the problem
I'm not so sure nitrates are the problem here. I never heard of 0.5 ppm being dangerously high, and it's only the gorgonian and monti which are having issues. My mushroom, candy cane, and duncan have been doing great in comparison, with the duncan even sprouting more heads.
 
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Joe Tony

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If it was my tabnk I would be looking at some other cause than PO4 being at .21 mg/l. Phosphorus can be a hotly debated topic sometimes. Here's some of the research showing it's effects on corals. A couple of the findings by researchers is corals photobiology can be severly impacted with too low of phosphate and a threshold level of .03 has been identified as a minimum level to avoid the risk of this happening. Research has also shown increasing PO4 levels increases growth. More and more research is showing a corals microbiont is critical and disrutptions can cause problems as well as nitrate potentially can cause bleaching.

Forest Rohwer "Coral Reefs in the Microbial Seas"


Changing Seas - Mysterious Microbes


Nitrogen cycling in hte coral holobiont


Richard Ross What's up with phosphate"


An Experimental Mesocosm for Longterm Studies of Reef Corals

Phosphate Deficiency:
Nutrient enrichment can increase the susceptibility of reef corals to bleaching:

Ultrastructural Biomarkers in Symbiotic Algae Reflect the Availability of Dissolved Inorganic Nutrients and Particulate Food to the Reef Coral Holobiont:

Phosphate deficiency promotes coral bleaching and is reflected by the ultrastructure of symbiotic dinoflagellates

Effects of phosphate on growth and skeletal density in the scleractinian coral Acropora muricata: A controlled experimental approach

High phosphate uptake requirements of the scleractinian coral Stylophora pistillata

Phosphorus metabolism of reef organisms with algal symbionts


Sponge symbionts and the marine P cycle

Phosphorus sequestration in the form of polyphosphate by microbial symbionts in marine sponges

Sugar enrichment provides evidence for a role of nitrogen fixation in coral bleaching

Elevated ammonium delays the impairment of the coral-dinoflagellate symbiosis during labile carbon pollution
(here's an argument for maintaining heavy fish loads if you're carbon dosing)

Excess labile carbon promotes the expression of virulence factors in coral reef bacterioplankton

Unseen players shape benthic competition on coral reefs.


Unravelling the different effects of nitrate and ammonium effects on coral bleaching

Well the other thing that I've considered, which I'm fixing ASAP is my history of putting my hand in the tank without gloves, multiple times a day, and in between santizing and moisturizing said hands. This, I realize, may have been a MONSTROUSLY huge problem, but I wanted to see if there were other potential causes. And anyway, I just wanted to get an idea of where other people's mentality is at in regard to keeping phosphates under control.
 

Timfish

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. . . and in between santizing and moisturizing said hands. . . .

These are a huge concern for me. I've settled on grape seed oil as a very good, realatively cheap mosturizer and to avoid some of the stuff in hand sanitizers that is not only harmful for aquariums but some are potentially damaging to the environment when they break down into dioxins I use H2O2 in a spray bottle, if any get's into the tank at worst it may kill off a little algae (oh my! :D ).
 
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Joe Tony

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These are a huge concern for me. I've settled on grape seed oil as a very good, realatively cheap mosturizer and to avoid some of the stuff in hand sanitizers that is not only harmful for aquariums but some are potentially damaging to the environment when they break down into dioxins I use H2O2 in a spray bottle, if any get's into the tank at worst it may kill off a little algae (oh my! :D ).
Yeah I know... I really screwed up with this. I'm actually amazed at myself that it took me this long to realize it.
 

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If the tank was more than a year old, I have no issue with up to .3ppm. It’s only when it’s under a year I keep under .1ppm.

.5ppm is a bit low for Nitrate.

If a tank is running well, but tests show a bit off, I just leave it.
 
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Joe Tony

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If the tank was more than a year old, I have no issue with up to .3ppm. It’s only when it’s under a year I keep under .1ppm.

If a tank is running well, but tests show a bit off, I just leave it.
The tank is over 18 months
 
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