1.5 yr established Tank, but need a stocking rethink

cdw79

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Recently added two flasher wrasses from Dr Reef's to my 65 display (Reefer 300XL), but ended up experiencing some aggression first from my longnose hawkfish, then from my male Blue Star Leopard wrasse. The hawk has been removed, but I have been disappointed to also see aggression from the leopard as that was (rightly or wrongly) very unexpected.

The wrasses are sitting in an acclimation box as I wait hoping the leopard will chill out, but either way I decided I need to take a step back and really rethink my current stocking and stocking plans and the fishes' compatibility. For context, the tank is well established (1.5 years or so), rock-heavy, generally high flow.

Current fish stock:
Pair of mature Ocellaris clowns
Full grown Bangaii
Yellow Assessor, which only seems to come out in the mornings and evenings
Male Blue Star Leopard Wrasse
Shrimp goby + pistol shrimp pair
Small lawnmower blenny
Bluespotted Jawfish

To be added (in acclimation box):
Blue Flasher Wrasse
McCosker's Flasher Wrasse

I've always liked fish more than the average reefer, it seems, so it's important to me to have a well stocked tank with outgoing fish. My nitrate levels were also too low (3 ppm as last check) and I've been recommended to increase the fish stock anyway, which I'm always happy to do. My main point to think about is compatibility- I've been around the hobby for a long time, yet I'm still not perfect at mixing fish.

Some potential additions in mind are:
Pygmy hawkfish- trying to get a similar hawkfish-like character, but without the aggression
Helfrichi filefish- always been on my bucket list but never added due to the expected hawkfish aggression
Another kind of dartfish, maybe a blue gudgeon or scissor tail
Yellow clown goby- heard they are absolute delights but can pick at acros, apparently?
Blue Reef Chromis- I appreciate that they're always out, have a color I don't have in my current stock, seem less fragile than Blue/Green chromic
Tilefish- seems there are questions about the actual tank size for these, but have reached out to trusted LFS, a close friend in the fish importing business, etc. and I feel reasonably confident a 60 would do the trick, especially a well established and (soon to be) completely peaceful one
Additional wrasses- my biggest gap in knowledge. I've seen the fairy wrasse compatibility tree (though that didn't apply to my recent purchase and subsequent aggression), but I'm not sure about additions like a Haliochores wrasse, fairy wrasses, other flasher wrasses perhaps, etc with my current stock + those soon to be added from the acclimation box.

To those with more fish-mixing experiences than me, any recommendations, especially in the wrasse department? I am by no means planning to add all of the ideas listed above, just spitballing for maybe 2-3 more fish total. Thanks so much!
 

i cant think

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Recently added two flasher wrasses from Dr Reef's to my 65 display (Reefer 300XL), but ended up experiencing some aggression first from my longnose hawkfish, then from my male Blue Star Leopard wrasse. The hawk has been removed, but I have been disappointed to also see aggression from the leopard as that was (rightly or wrongly) very unexpected.

The wrasses are sitting in an acclimation box as I wait hoping the leopard will chill out, but either way I decided I need to take a step back and really rethink my current stocking and stocking plans and the fishes' compatibility. For context, the tank is well established (1.5 years or so), rock-heavy, generally high flow.

Current fish stock:
Pair of mature Ocellaris clowns
Full grown Bangaii
Yellow Assessor, which only seems to come out in the mornings and evenings
Male Blue Star Leopard Wrasse
Shrimp goby + pistol shrimp pair
Small lawnmower blenny
Bluespotted Jawfish

To be added (in acclimation box):
Blue Flasher Wrasse
McCosker's Flasher Wrasse

I've always liked fish more than the average reefer, it seems, so it's important to me to have a well stocked tank with outgoing fish. My nitrate levels were also too low (3 ppm as last check) and I've been recommended to increase the fish stock anyway, which I'm always happy to do. My main point to think about is compatibility- I've been around the hobby for a long time, yet I'm still not perfect at mixing fish.

Some potential additions in mind are:
Pygmy hawkfish- trying to get a similar hawkfish-like character, but without the aggression
Helfrichi filefish- always been on my bucket list but never added due to the expected hawkfish aggression
Another kind of dartfish, maybe a blue gudgeon or scissor tail
Yellow clown goby- heard they are absolute delights but can pick at acros, apparently?
Blue Reef Chromis- I appreciate that they're always out, have a color I don't have in my current stock, seem less fragile than Blue/Green chromic
Tilefish- seems there are questions about the actual tank size for these, but have reached out to trusted LFS, a close friend in the fish importing business, etc. and I feel reasonably confident a 60 would do the trick, especially a well established and (soon to be) completely peaceful one
Additional wrasses- my biggest gap in knowledge. I've seen the fairy wrasse compatibility tree (though that didn't apply to my recent purchase and subsequent aggression), but I'm not sure about additions like a Haliochores wrasse, fairy wrasses, other flasher wrasses perhaps, etc with my current stock + those soon to be added from the acclimation box.

To those with more fish-mixing experiences than me, any recommendations, especially in the wrasse department? I am by no means planning to add all of the ideas listed above, just spitballing for maybe 2-3 more fish total. Thanks so much!
Wrasses are my strongest spot so I’ll most likely do several posts, one (this one) for the wrasses and the other (when I have time) on the rest of the fish.
This is where you’ll need to remove all of your current ones (including the two in acclimation).
So, without a photo I can only assume you got the more aggressive species of blue star leopard - Macropharyngodon marisrubri. In my experience, it’s unlikely that you’ll be able to add any other wrasses without having to deal with this one first. Usually you will find small spurts of aggression, this will most likely be to deal with the hierarchy however leopards IME tend to recklessly chase wrasses round the tank when they mature. With yours being the only wrasse in there, it’s likely this guy is the big boss and he is showing every other male wrasse that.
Now, the two flashers are an issue on their own. The tank size is barely 3’ long, this isn’t sufficient for many of the Fairy or any of the Flasher wrasses long term. When these guys display, they often go all out with it. We tend to recommend these for a 4’ tank at the minimum, any smaller than that and they can get spinal injuries.

As for other wrasses, unfortunately I wouldn’t get any others for your tank until you have a way to deal with the current three.
 
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cdw79

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Wrasses are my strongest spot so I’ll most likely do several posts, one (this one) for the wrasses and the other (when I have time) on the rest of the fish.
This is where you’ll need to remove all of your current ones (including the two in acclimation).
So, without a photo I can only assume you got the more aggressive species of blue star leopard - Macropharyngodon marisrubri. In my experience, it’s unlikely that you’ll be able to add any other wrasses without having to deal with this one first. Usually you will find small spurts of aggression, this will most likely be to deal with the hierarchy however leopards IME tend to recklessly chase wrasses round the tank when they mature. With yours being the only wrasse in there, it’s likely this guy is the big boss and he is showing every other male wrasse that.
Now, the two flashers are an issue on their own. The tank size is barely 3’ long, this isn’t sufficient for many of the Fairy or any of the Flasher wrasses long term. When these guys display, they often go all out with it. We tend to recommend these for a 4’ tank at the minimum, any smaller than that and they can get spinal injuries.

As for other wrasses, unfortunately I wouldn’t get any others for your tank until you have a way to deal with the current three.
Thanks for your thoughtful reply as always! When I have a fish question I almost think to @ you at this point haha

I am likely to have to move across the country in about 6 months, so hopefully the size issue with the wrasses will not be too huge of a problem. Weird how colloquially people mention that these species can live in tanks as small as 30 gallons to maturity, but I guess that seems not to be the case? Hard to know what to make of "minimum tank size" recommendations at this point :/ Though assuming the Leopard aggress

As far as the leopard itself, I managed to get this pic. And all the wrasse thoughts were only under the circumstances where either I could get the Leopard to calm down or I removed him altogether. I tried looking at the respective photos here (https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/w...tar-leopard-wrasse-please-explain-why.789385/) but just can't quite tell one way or another, what do you think? @i cant think ? I'm leaning toward the Marisrubi, but up until today I had no idea that there were two variations!

IMG-0081.PNG
 

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I would strongly try to discourage you from going with the tilefish, most of these fish get very long and require lots of swimming space.
 

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Thanks for your thoughtful reply as always! When I have a fish question I almost think to @ you at this point haha

I am likely to have to move across the country in about 6 months, so hopefully the size issue with the wrasses will not be too huge of a problem. Weird how colloquially people mention that these species can live in tanks as small as 30 gallons to maturity, but I guess that seems not to be the case? Hard to know what to make of "minimum tank size" recommendations at this point :/ Though assuming the Leopard aggress

As far as the leopard itself, I managed to get this pic. And all the wrasse thoughts were only under the circumstances where either I could get the Leopard to calm down or I removed him altogether. I tried looking at the respective photos here (https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/w...tar-leopard-wrasse-please-explain-why.789385/) but just can't quite tell one way or another, what do you think? @i cant think ? I'm leaning toward the Marisrubi, but up until today I had no idea that there were two variations!

IMG-0081.PNG
multiple wrasses are going to be really difficult if not straight impossible as stated above. also with a 65g I'd really think about the growth of the fish as well as their temperaments as they mature. certain fish may be fine as juveniles but in smaller systems as they mature you could have a battle on your hand.

I have a 40g with 6 fish currently. I have a starry blenny, a six line wrasse, 2 clowns, a bangaii cardinal, and a longnose hawkfish.

Everyone gets along swimmingly. I think what's helped me was introducing them as quickly as the tank will allow biologically as well as choosing the proper size fish. also making sure I don't have multiple (perching fish), or multiple bottom dwellers. most of the issues people have is that they get too many fish competing for too little territory and then things go wrong.
 

i cant think

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Thanks for your thoughtful reply as always! When I have a fish question I almost think to @ you at this point haha

I am likely to have to move across the country in about 6 months, so hopefully the size issue with the wrasses will not be too huge of a problem. Weird how colloquially people mention that these species can live in tanks as small as 30 gallons to maturity, but I guess that seems not to be the case? Hard to know what to make of "minimum tank size" recommendations at this point :/ Though assuming the Leopard aggress

As far as the leopard itself, I managed to get this pic. And all the wrasse thoughts were only under the circumstances where either I could get the Leopard to calm down or I removed him altogether. I tried looking at the respective photos here (https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/w...tar-leopard-wrasse-please-explain-why.789385/) but just can't quite tell one way or another, what do you think? @i cant think ? I'm leaning toward the Marisrubi, but up until today I had no idea that there were two variations!

IMG-0081.PNG
My theory was correct - you have the Macropharyngodon marisrubri. This is the more aggressive variation of the two, especially as males.
 
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cdw79

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My theory was correct - you have the Macropharyngodon marisrubri. This is the more aggressive variation of the two, especially as males.
Interesting- he was very calm as a female and didn't mind other wrasse, but I've watched the tank since I posted and noticed the charging behavior is still there. Sounds like it won't likely subside, then?
 

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