253G Build - Remote Sump Feedback Needed.

[Boostable]

253G Build - It has begun!

Fairly new here (usually over on a couple of the other boards), but figured I would check it out over here, and the more input the better so...

With that said, I am in the planning phase of setting up our new tank next month and as part of the process I want to setup a remote sump in a back room that I will be building. I have never done a remote sump before, so I want to be as informed as possible. Any feedback would be appreciated.

Here are the details and an image that I hope helps.

Tank: 253G
Sump: 100~150G (to be determined based on space)
Distance: Approx. 63'
Rise/Fall: 5' at the tank side and 2' at the sump side.

I am leaning toward using a Reeflo Super Dart Gold for the primary pump (4300GPH at 0 head), figured I would end up with approx. 3200GPH to play with. I have used the Dart on my 210 and it performed very well.

Also, debating about running either 1.25 or 1.5 for the two primary drains. Any feedback one way or the other in regards to that? I will run two separate drains all the way back to the sump either way.

On the inlets I will run a single 1.5" all the way back and then split it up at the tank. Should I consider bigger here?

So, any feedback on plumbing size, and pump size or any other pointers would be appreciated.

Jack

 

[swannyson7]

I'd try punching the information into a head loss calculator if you haven't done so already. I'd think that with a 63' foot span you're going to lose much more flow than you are anticipating.

 

[Boostable]

Thanks for the suggestion. I ran a couple of scenario's.

Pump: Sequence 4000

Using 1.25" Pipe: Total losses are 15.23 feet of head pressure, or 6.58 PSI. with a flow rate of 1772 GPH. Process took 207 iterations.

Using 1.5" Pipe: Total losses are 13.45 feet of head pressure, or 5.81 PSI. with a flow rate of 2329 GPH. Process took 313 iterations.

Using 2" Pipe: Total losses are 8.59 feet of head pressure, or 3.71 PSI. with a flow rate of 3258 GPH. Process took 350 iterations.

I then went to a bigger pump and this is what I got.

Pump: Sequence 5200

Using 1.25" Pipe: Total losses are 18.99 feet of head pressure, or 8.21 PSI. with a flow rate of 2096 GPH. Process took 253 iterations.

Using 1.5" Pipe: Total losses are 16.16 feet of head pressure, or 6.98 PSI. with a flow rate of 3243 GPH. Process took 350 iterations.

Using 2" Pipe: Total losses are 8.59 feet of head pressure, or 3.71 PSI. with a flow rate of 4543 GPH. Process took 350 iterations.

I really don't want to run 2" pipe if I can help, but will if I have to. Based on the above numbers im gonna use 16~17' as my head loss average. So after looking at all the Reeflo pumps I think the Hammer Head Hybrid may be the way to go.

Reflow Hammer Head:
~in Barracuda Mode: Approx. 2400GPH @ 16'
~in Hammerhead Mode: Approx. 3600GPH @ 17'

Would give me the options of trying a couple different pumps without having to buy two.

Seems like that may work, thoughts?

Jack

 

[Boostable]

Any feedback?

 

[wakeboardgeek]

Thanks for the suggestion. I ran a couple of scenario's.

Pump: Sequence 4000

Using 1.25" Pipe: Total losses are 15.23 feet of head pressure, or 6.58 PSI. with a flow rate of 1772 GPH. Process took 207 iterations.

Using 1.5" Pipe: Total losses are 13.45 feet of head pressure, or 5.81 PSI. with a flow rate of 2329 GPH. Process took 313 iterations.

Using 2" Pipe: Total losses are 8.59 feet of head pressure, or 3.71 PSI. with a flow rate of 3258 GPH. Process took 350 iterations.

I then went to a bigger pump and this is what I got.

Pump: Sequence 5200

Using 1.25" Pipe: Total losses are 18.99 feet of head pressure, or 8.21 PSI. with a flow rate of 2096 GPH. Process took 253 iterations.

Using 1.5" Pipe: Total losses are 16.16 feet of head pressure, or 6.98 PSI. with a flow rate of 3243 GPH. Process took 350 iterations.

Using 2" Pipe: Total losses are 8.59 feet of head pressure, or 3.71 PSI. with a flow rate of 4543 GPH. Process took 350 iterations.

I really don't want to run 2" pipe if I can help, but will if I have to. Based on the above numbers im gonna use 16~17' as my head loss average. So after looking at all the Reeflo pumps I think the Hammer Head Hybrid may be the way to go.

Reflow Hammer Head:
~in Barracuda Mode: Approx. 2400GPH @ 16'
~in Hammerhead Mode: Approx. 3600GPH @ 17'

Would give me the options of trying a couple different pumps without having to buy two.

Seems like that may work, thoughts?

Jack

Did you tank into consideration the head loss you may lose with the elbows?

 

[soccerbag]

Hey man - welcome to R2R! Glad to have you here. I have a 250g display on my main floor and my sump is located in my basement so I have a similar situation - about 10 feet vertical rise / fall. I'm using just one drain - 1.5". And just have one return (1"). I have my entire system powered by a Reeflo Hammerhead. I don't know all of the calculations but I do know that it is enough to power two reactors, return to my frag tank (in basement), and return to my display upstairs. I would recommend a manifold with ball valves (mine is pictured below).

I would go with way more than possibly not enough. It's amazing how much pressure you actually use per foot of rise. You can always draw it back a bit if necessary. Do you plan on doing anything else with the pump (feeding skimmer, reactors, etc)? Sounds like a great build and you've done a lot of planning which is good. Hopefully some others will chime in with opinions. I hope this helps

 

[swannyson7]

Did you tank into consideration the head loss you may lose with the elbows?

+1. Elbows, unions, valves etc. will all increase head pressure and drop you output significantly. That being said, people who own the Reeflow pumps seem to love them. However, if you get the 3600 gph pump, I bet you'll barely break 1000 gph by the time it hits the tank with that distance.

 

[Boostable]

+1. Elbows, unions, valves etc. will all increase head pressure and drop you output significantly. That being said, people who own the Reeflow pumps seem to love them. However, if you get the 3600 gph pump, I bet you'll barely break 1000 gph by the time it hits the tank with that distance.

Thanks for the feedback and I agree the standard Dart 3600 gph will not get the job done. The hybrid Hammer Head starts at 6000. Here is what I used in my calcs..

Number of 90 degree elbows - 2
Number of 45 degree elbows - 8
Number of gate valves - 2
Number of ball valves - 0
Number of union couplings - 2
Number of swing check valves - 0
Number of pipe exits - 2
Number of pipe entrances - 1

Seems about right for the run.

 

[Boostable]

Hey man - welcome to R2R! Glad to have you here. I have a 250g display on my main floor and my sump is located in my basement so I have a similar situation - about 10 feet vertical rise / fall. I'm using just one drain - 1.5". And just have one return (1"). I have my entire system powered by a Reeflo Hammerhead. I don't know all of the calculations but I do know that it is enough to power two reactors, return to my frag tank (in basement), and return to my display upstairs. I would recommend a manifold with ball valves (mine is pictured below).

I would go with way more than possibly not enough. It's amazing how much pressure you actually use per foot of rise. You can always draw it back a bit if necessary. Do you plan on doing anything else with the pump (feeding skimmer, reactors, etc)? Sounds like a great build and you've done a lot of planning which is good. Hopefully some others will chime in with opinions. I hope this helps

Craig,

That helps a lot, I appreciate the input. I definitely want to run a manifold but could not factor that into that head pressure. I will be running two reactors and possible my skimmer. Its good to see the Hammer Head is doing well for you, and I might just go that route and skip the hybrid.

You getting the turnover you like with just the 1" return?

Thanks,

Jack

 

[soccerbag]

Yeah, I think you'll be surprised at just how much the manifold and 45 and 90 degree elbows reduce the pressure. If you have any questions at all, feel free to pm me anytime. I am not a pump expert by any stretch but do know that the Hammerhead would be your best (and most efficient) option for your application. You'll love having the sump away from the tank. Really reduces the noise and lets you just enjoy the display. I could never go back.

 

[Boostable]

Im gonna run a 2" all the way back and split it at the tank into two 1" returns. Should help me keep the pressure up a bit.

 

[Acipenser]

I am planning a 150 sps build where the sump will be in a "fish room" in a detached garage. I should have about the same parameters as your set up.
How did the pump selection work out for you?

Any pointers on things that I should think about specific to a remote sump that you learned in your build?

Thanks.