Garage/Remote Sump Lessons to Share?

[ariellemermaid]

I’m setting up an Innovative Marine 200 EXT on a shared wall with a garage. Having had a 6’ tank for quite a few years now, I really want a remote sump + ATO/mixing/dosing, etc.

I live in an area that saw single digit (F) temperatures this winter and summer temps in the 90’s (outside of the garage, anyway). My plan would be to install a large mini-split, insulate the garage doors, and perhaps build an insulated cabinet if necessary. However, the cheapest mini split quote so far is $7000- roughly 60% equipment, 40% labor. It seems excessive, but when all the HVAC companies are coming back in the same range, I guess it is what it is.

Before I take that leap and start drilling holes in my walls, anyone out there have any tips and pitfalls to share? Issues regarding plumbing, moisture, condensation, temperature, etc.? I’ve been finding some questions on here, but not a lot of thorough builds and retrospective analyses. One thing about the 200 EXT is that it will basically be impossible to go back to a cabinet sump- the install location will not allow the required side-loading of a full-sized sump after filling the tank. Any suggestions appreciated!

 

[allof fish]

I’m setting up an Innovative Marine 200 EXT on a shared wall with a garage. Having had a 6’ tank for quite a few years now, I really want a remote sump + ATO/mixing/dosing, etc.

I live in an area that saw single digit (F) temperatures this winter and summer temps in the 90’s (outside of the garage, anyway). My plan would be to install a large mini-split, insulate the garage doors, and perhaps build an insulated cabinet if necessary. However, the cheapest mini split quote so far is $7000- roughly 60% equipment, 40% labor. It seems excessive, but when all the HVAC companies are coming back in the same range, I guess it is what it is.

Before I take that leap and start drilling holes in my walls, anyone out there have any tips and pitfalls to share? Issues regarding plumbing, moisture, condensation, temperature, etc.? I’ve been finding some questions on here, but not a lot of thorough builds and retrospective analyses. One thing about the 200 EXT is that it will basically be impossible to go back to a cabinet sump- the install location will not allow the required side-loading of a full-sized sump after filling the tank. Any suggestions appreciated!

One thing I’d say it would be much cheaper if you built a small insulated sump room yourself or built out your garage that way if that’s soemthing you’d want to do. I would definitely make sure the plumbing is top notch with the correct sizes for drains and returns. I personally would go extra large sump as well. Make sure you have a large enough pump to accommodate the head height as well. If you are building a mini room out definitely install some fans/ac which will help with moisture and heater as well

 

[Rob A]

Rubbermaid stock tanks are perfect for remote sumps. They are by nature insulated (polypropylene is a poor heat conductor) and have a lot of room for anything that you will want to put in them. Check out my build thread it might give you some ideas to work with.

 

[jonsreef2reef]

The thing I'd separate before spending the $7k: a mini-split buys you temperature, not humidity. In heat mode it doesn't dehumidify at all — so the coldest months, when your walls are coldest and condensing fastest, are exactly when the HVAC is doing nothing about the moisture. Dry mode helps in summer but it isn't really a substitute for a dedicated unit. I'd price a standalone dehumidifier plumbed to a drain as a separate line item rather than assuming the mini-split covers both. And before any of it, lid the sump and the mixing station — cutting evaporation at the source is the cheapest lever you've got and it shrinks everything downstream.

Other thing nobody warned me about: rust. I lived and did this in the Philly area and salt creep traveled a lot further than the splash zone — hardware, a tools (nice ones!), screws I'd never thought about. If the garage still stores actual garage things, it's worth deciding now what stays and what moves, and going stainless or plastic on anything you fasten in there. Could just be my setup, but I'd assume anything steel within a few feet of the sump is on the clock.

 

[ariellemermaid]

One thing I’d say it would be much cheaper if you built a small insulated sump room yourself or built out your garage that way if that’s soemthing you’d want to do. I would definitely make sure the plumbing is top notch with the correct sizes for drains and returns. I personally would go extra large sump as well. Make sure you have a large enough pump to accommodate the head height as well. If you are building a mini room out definitely install some fans/ac which will help with moisture and heater as well

Unfortunately I just don't have that much space to work with, just kind of an angled corner. I'm going to have to be creative to fit in a mixing station plus sump.

Plumbing is going to be a whole different kind of challenge! The bean animal has 3 drains plus I can do 1 or 2 return lines. Or 1 large return line split into 2; I think I prefer dual pumps though. I've gotten different suggestions on sizing (1.5" vs. 2"). The head height will probably only be 2-3x normal plus 45/90 degree bends. I'm really going to have to future proof it though; I know I want UV, but also may add a calcium reactor, GFO, algae reactor, etc. down the line.

Rubbermaid stock tanks are perfect for remote sumps. They are by nature insulated (polypropylene is a poor heat conductor) and have a lot of room for anything that you will want to put in them. Check out my build thread it might give you some ideas to work with.

Yeah that was my plan once upon a time, but then I hate to waste the sump that came with the EXT. The problem though is that it's not really compatible with a Reef Mat and I really want to go that direction; I'd have to use the skimmer or refugium chamber but then the lid wouldn't fit. So maybe a stock tank with a make shift lid would be a better direction. I suppose I could put the stock sump under the tank just in case I go back to it, but then I'd lose valuable storage space.

The thing I'd separate before spending the $7k: a mini-split buys you temperature, not humidity. In heat mode it doesn't dehumidify at all — so the coldest months, when your walls are coldest and condensing fastest, are exactly when the HVAC is doing nothing about the moisture. Dry mode helps in summer but it isn't really a substitute for a dedicated unit. I'd price a standalone dehumidifier plumbed to a drain as a separate line item rather than assuming the mini-split covers both. And before any of it, lid the sump and the mixing station — cutting evaporation at the source is the cheapest lever you've got and it shrinks everything downstream.

Other thing nobody warned me about: rust. I lived and did this in the Philly area and salt creep traveled a lot further than the splash zone — hardware, a tools (nice ones!), screws I'd never thought about. If the garage still stores actual garage things, it's worth deciding now what stays and what moves, and going stainless or plastic on anything you fasten in there. Could just be my setup, but I'd assume anything steel within a few feet of the sump is on the clock.

Well the good news is I've got one guy talked down to $5300-$5800 depending on the model. I've gotten differing opinions on humidity control. The first guy said basically it'll only dehumidify while running, but I'll probably still need another solution. The second guy seems to think the dedicated dehumidification function on the two units we're looking at will do a decent job. I'm not opposed to a stand-alone dehumidifier, but I'll have to figure out drainage. For AWC and RODI I could potentially route some tubing around the garage that would feed into a laundry room sink on the other side of a different wall.

I do worry about rust; cars more than anything. But I also wonder how much of the issue was salt in the air vs. general humidity? Did you specifically notice a difference with things near the sump? I ask because living in the relatively humid mountains for the past few years a lot of my tools are toast without the salt, particularly drill bits and drill attachments, pliers and vice grips, etc. I've had entire sets of things completely rust out.

 

[ariellemermaid]

Oh wow, just found this thread! This is pretty much exactly the plumbing I need, and mixing tanks like this would work perfectly with the shelving I already have. What I haven't found is a lot of people with lids on their rubbermaid though.

 

[Rob A]

Oh wow, just found this thread! This is pretty much exactly the plumbing I need, and mixing tanks like this would work perfectly with the shelving I already have. What I haven't found is a lot of people with lids on their rubbermaid though.

Oh wow, just found this thread! This is pretty much exactly the plumbing I need, and mixing tanks like this would work perfectly with the shelving I already have. What I haven't found is a lot of people with lids on their rubbermaid though.

This is the thread I based my 1st remote sump on. I used rigid foam insulation for a lid for a while and then some clear corrugated plastic 8 x 4 greenhouse panel from menards. I eventually got rid of the lid as i found it didn't really do anything for me as far as evaporation and heat loss and it was PITA. Here it a pic of the insulation I put around the stock tank when I was building it.

 

[jonsreef2reef]

Unfortunately I just don't have that much space to work with, just kind of an angled corner. I'm going to have to be creative to fit in a mixing station plus sump.

Plumbing is going to be a whole different kind of challenge! The bean animal has 3 drains plus I can do 1 or 2 return lines. Or 1 large return line split into 2; I think I prefer dual pumps though. I've gotten different suggestions on sizing (1.5" vs. 2"). The head height will probably only be 2-3x normal plus 45/90 degree bends. I'm really going to have to future proof it though; I know I want UV, but also may add a calcium reactor, GFO, algae reactor, etc. down the line.

Yeah that was my plan once upon a time, but then I hate to waste the sump that came with the EXT. The problem though is that it's not really compatible with a Reef Mat and I really want to go that direction; I'd have to use the skimmer or refugium chamber but then the lid wouldn't fit. So maybe a stock tank with a make shift lid would be a better direction. I suppose I could put the stock sump under the tank just in case I go back to it, but then I'd lose valuable storage space.

Well the good news is I've got one guy talked down to $5300-$5800 depending on the model. I've gotten differing opinions on humidity control. The first guy said basically it'll only dehumidify while running, but I'll probably still need another solution. The second guy seems to think the dedicated dehumidification function on the two units we're looking at will do a decent job. I'm not opposed to a stand-alone dehumidifier, but I'll have to figure out drainage. For AWC and RODI I could potentially route some tubing around the garage that would feed into a laundry room sink on the other side of a different wall.

I do worry about rust; cars more than anything. But I also wonder how much of the issue was salt in the air vs. general humidity? Did you specifically notice a difference with things near the sump? I ask because living in the relatively humid mountains for the past few years a lot of my tools are toast without the salt, particularly drill bits and drill attachments, pliers and vice grips, etc. I've had entire sets of things completely rust out.

Good question.

I did some research just now, and it looks like salt pulls water out of the air and holds a damp film right against the surface — so salted steel is effectively wet at humidity levels where clean steel sits dry.

Looking back, my biggest issue was tools in a closet about seven feet from the sump, behind a door that didn't seal. In retrospect I think the transport is aerosol, not splash — a skimmer bursts bubbles at a water surface all day and throws micro-droplets that ride whatever air current exists. So it gets in, and then nothing moves, nothing dries, nothing gets wiped.

So I think you may want to consider this as two problems. Humidity is a whole-garage number and the dehumidifier is the answer; salt is a distance-and-airflow problem and lids plus layout are the answer. Your mountain tools rusting without any salt in the picture tracks with that — humidity gets there eventually, salt just gets there faster.

On drainage — price a condensate pump before you design around gravity. Small box that sits under the dehumidifier and pushes the water uphill through 3/8" vinyl, so it can follow the same run you're already planning for AWC and RODI over to that laundry sink. Turns it from a floor-drain problem into a zip-tie problem.

 

[allof fish]

Unfortunately I just don't have that much space to work with, just kind of an angled corner. I'm going to have to be creative to fit in a mixing station plus sump.

Plumbing is going to be a whole different kind of challenge! The bean animal has 3 drains plus I can do 1 or 2 return lines. Or 1 large return line split into 2; I think I prefer dual pumps though. I've gotten different suggestions on sizing (1.5" vs. 2"). The head height will probably only be 2-3x normal plus 45/90 degree bends. I'm really going to have to future proof it though; I know I want UV, but also may add a calcium reactor, GFO, algae reactor, etc. down the line.

Yeah that was my plan once upon a time, but then I hate to waste the sump that came with the EXT. The problem though is that it's not really compatible with a Reef Mat and I really want to go that direction; I'd have to use the skimmer or refugium chamber but then the lid wouldn't fit. So maybe a stock tank with a make shift lid would be a better direction. I suppose I could put the stock sump under the tank just in case I go back to it, but then I'd lose valuable storage space.

Well the good news is I've got one guy talked down to $5300-$5800 depending on the model. I've gotten differing opinions on humidity control. The first guy said basically it'll only dehumidify while running, but I'll probably still need another solution. The second guy seems to think the dedicated dehumidification function on the two units we're looking at will do a decent job. I'm not opposed to a stand-alone dehumidifier, but I'll have to figure out drainage. For AWC and RODI I could potentially route some tubing around the garage that would feed into a laundry room sink on the other side of a different wall.

I do worry about rust; cars more than anything. But I also wonder how much of the issue was salt in the air vs. general humidity? Did you specifically notice a difference with things near the sump? I ask because living in the relatively humid mountains for the past few years a lot of my tools are toast without the salt, particularly drill bits and drill attachments, pliers and vice grips, etc. I've had entire sets of things completely rust out.

I would definitely say the bigger the better for size piping. When it comes to humidity and rust you can always add a dehumidifier or fan for cooling but that will add evaporation. Just saw your located in NC. What part. Here in charlotte it’s extremely humid, I went to school in mountains and I didn’t find it very humid not anything like in CLT. So I would think salt in the air and humidity wouldn’t be too big on an issue as long as there’s so air movement and space

 

[ariellemermaid]

This is the thread I based my 1st remote sump on. I used rigid foam insulation for a lid for a while and then some clear corrugated plastic 8 x 4 greenhouse panel from menards. I eventually got rid of the lid as i found it didn't really do anything for me as far as evaporation and heat loss and it was PITA. Here it a pic of the insulation I put around the stock tank when I was building it.

I just noticed he put a separate tote in the tank for the skimmer, presumably so he can control the water height of the skimmer "chamber" independent of the sump height (and without the need to build a platform of a specific size). If you ran a skimmer, how did you handle that?

I would definitely say the bigger the better for size piping. When it comes to humidity and rust you can always add a dehumidifier or fan for cooling but that will add evaporation. Just saw your located in NC. What part. Here in charlotte it’s extremely humid, I went to school in mountains and I didn’t find it very humid not anything like in CLT. So I would think salt in the air and humidity wouldn’t be too big on an issue as long as there’s so air movement and space

It's true, I always refer to Charlotte as a swamp. The temperature and humidity are often oppressive! In the Asheville area the temps are always milder, but it also rains a fair amount too. My drainage lines on my AC unit clogged for 2 days until I could figure out how to clear them and it was 76% in the house!

 

[Rob A]

Here are a couple of pics of the skimmer setup one when I was setting it up and one when I was moving it to the lagoon side. The skimmer was in the tote on the table. The tote inside the stock tank was a fuge that sat on a pile of live rock. The water flowed from a 180 upstairs into the tote on the table which had socks and a skimmer then the water flowed into the fuge which emptied back into the stock tank. It worked great and was easy to maintain. I also put a valve on the "table tote" that made water changes super easy. They only thing I would have done different would be using a 150 gal stock tank vs 100 gal. If you put the skimmer in the stock tank tote you would need to raise it above the water level in the stock tank.

Here it is now attached to the Lagoon with the skimmers in the stock tank. I went to an algae scrubber to replace the fuge (big improvement)

 

[ariellemermaid]

Here are a couple of pics of the skimmer setup one when I was setting it up and one when I was moving it to the lagoon side. The skimmer was in the tote on the table. The tote inside the stock tank was a fuge that sat on a pile of live rock. The water flowed from a 180 upstairs into the tote on the table which had socks and a skimmer then the water flowed into the fuge which emptied back into the stock tank. It worked great and was easy to maintain. I also put a valve on the "table tote" that made water changes super easy. They only thing I would have done different would be using a 150 gal stock tank vs 100 gal. If you put the skimmer in the stock tank tote you would need to raise it above the water level in the stock tank.

Here it is now attached to the Lagoon with the skimmers in the stock tank. I went to an algae scrubber to replace the fuge (big improvement)

Nice; in both setups I don’t see a valve on the skimmer tote but also notice the drain is placed relatively high on the tote. Is it the case that the drain was placed at the desired skimmer level and then the water just free flows?

 

[Rob A]

Nice; in both setups I don’t see a valve on the skimmer tote but also notice the drain is placed relatively high on the tote. Is it the case that the drain was placed at the desired skimmer level and then the water just free flows?

Yes and I tweaked the skimmer height with pieces of egg crate staked in top of each other then set the skimmer on top.

 

[ariellemermaid]

I do have one bit of a pickle that might come into play... My old tank (dry) is a 160g with 40g sump. I need to do something with it sooner rather than later where it's currently living. I listed it for sale, but unfortunately, it seems like used tanks are worthless and I've had zero interest. Has anyone tried to convert a DT into a sump? It wouldn't be ideal from a depth/height and overflow standpoint, but I'm just not sure what to do with it. It's really too big for a QT/hospital tank from a medication/WC/cleaning standpoint.

My only other idea would be to give away or dispose of the DT and just use the stand/sump with a shallow acrylic tank as a frag/crab/invert QT tank.

 

[ariellemermaid]

Here are a couple of pics of the skimmer setup one when I was setting it up and one when I was moving it to the lagoon side. The skimmer was in the tote on the table. The tote inside the stock tank was a fuge that sat on a pile of live rock. The water flowed from a 180 upstairs into the tote on the table which had socks and a skimmer then the water flowed into the fuge which emptied back into the stock tank. It worked great and was easy to maintain. I also put a valve on the "table tote" that made water changes super easy. They only thing I would have done different would be using a 150 gal stock tank vs 100 gal. If you put the skimmer in the stock tank tote you would need to raise it above the water level in the stock tank.

Here it is now attached to the Lagoon with the skimmers in the stock tank. I went to an algae scrubber to replace the fuge (big improvement)

For some reason I was thinking that the '1.5" plug' was like a 1.5" PVC compatible bulkhead. I understand now the installed bulkhead is anything but. What did you end up doing? I'm reading that the surface is slightly curved and there's no clearance on the inside for a 1.5" bulkhead fitting even if one were to drill the hole larger. Did you go the uniseal route and, if so, any issues?

 

[Rob A]

For some reason I was thinking that the '1.5" plug' was like a 1.5" PVC compatible bulkhead. I understand now the installed bulkhead is anything but. What did you end up doing? I'm reading that the surface is slightly curved and there's no clearance on the inside for a 1.5" bulkhead fitting even if one were to drill the hole larger. Did you go the uniseal route and, if so, any issues?

I used UniSeals on everything and have had zero issues. UniSeals are pretty foolproof