2nd attempt at a BTA going eerily similar. Any diagnosis?

NewNem · Jun 8, 2022

Hi all,

I have a fairly well established FOWLR tank I've been trying to add a bubble tip to. The tank has been up for 2 years and was intended to be all nem/no coral.

I originally tried about a year and a half in. What had happened was that the anemone was out and bubbled up for about 1.5-2 days before retreating into my rock work. It did this for 3-4 days before coming out one morning and then suddenly falling apart (a squirt of water from a feeding pipette causing its tentacles to fall off. Currently I'm two days into it hiding within the rock work and ready fearing the worst.

Acclimated by floating 20 mins followed by 1 hour drip acclimation (1-2 drops per second)

My tank is a taller 40 gallon from Lifegard Aquatics: 29.53″ x 17.72″ x 17.72″

I have two IceCap 2K gyres at either end of my tank. They run on a 1 minute sine wave cycle ranging from 25-40% intensity. Flow alternates between sides, with the opposite side running in reverse. I'll attach a video of it moving in the flow before it retreated into the rockwork.

I run two AI Prime 16HDs about 10 inches above my water line using BRS' AB+ settings at about 70% intensity.

Temperature is usually between 77.5-78 degrees. Occasionally it gets up to 78.2-3 and occasionally to as low as 76.5.

Currently my paremeters look like this:

Specific gravity ~1.025
dKH ~9 / pH 8.0
Calcium 375-400 ppm (somewhere in that range, but stable)
Magnesium ~1400 ppm
Nitrate <1 ppm
Phosphate 70 ppb

I believe these are pretty stable as my readings have always been in this range for the past ~1.5 years.

At night I run a Chaeto refugium for pH stability and nutrient absorption. I also have a small skimmer that I run pretty much 24/7.

At some point after the first anemone died I ran a Triton test on my water.

The results indicated:
* Detected aluminum (22 ug/l), but no flags for unwanted heavy metals metals
* Calcium/alk/phosphate consistent with my test kits
* The following values for things I do not have tests for:

Element	Name	Analysis	Setpoint	Unit	Warning level	Group
K	Potassium	310	380 - 480	mg/l	red	Macro-Elements
Br	Bromide	84	62	mg/l	yellow	Macro-Elements
B	Boron	4.39	4.5	mg/l		Macro-Elements
Sr	Strontium	10.49	8 - 12	mg/l		Macro-Elements
S	Sulphur	777	900	mg/l		Macro-Elements
Li	Lithium	334	200	µg/l	red	Li-Group
Ni	Nickel	0	5	µg/l		Li-Group
Mo	Molybdenum	4.88	12	µg/l		Li-Group
V	Vanadium	0	0 - 3	µg/l		I-Group
Zn	Zinc	5.85	0 - 5	µg/l		I-Group
Mn	Manganese	0	0 - 3	µg/l		I-Group
I	Iodine	14	30 - 90	µg/l	yellow	I-Group
Cr	Chromium	0	0	µg/l		Fe-Group
Co	Cobalt	0	0	µg/l		Fe-Group
Fe	Iron	0	0	µg/l		Fe-Group
Ba	Barium	76	0 - 10	µg/l	yellow	Ba-Group
Be	Beryllium	0	0	µg/l		Ba-Group
Si	Silicon	124	0 - 200	µg/l		Si-Group

Spare time · Jun 8, 2022

I would highly recommend dosing amino acids since your nitrate is very low. Feeding the anemone is an alternative to this but if the anemone is not taking in food then the aminos would be my next choice. A pure amino mix will not raise phosphate

Your phosphate is also quite high, and I typically don't like to see one or the other (nitrate or phosphate) high with the other practically undetectable.

HuduVudu · Jun 8, 2022

NewNem said:
Fe Iron 0 0 µg/l Fe-Group

This is the problem.

Salt manufacturers have a been on a jihad against iron. This is resulting in inverts struggling in aquariums. I understand that this is a base element for nuisance algaes but it is also a base element for non-nuisance algae i.e. zoozanthelle.

This normally wouldn't be an issue in a fish only system but you have dipped your toe into another world and be aware of what that means.

Hope that helps.

Spare time · Jun 8, 2022

HuduVudu said:
This is the problem.

Salt manufacturers have a been on a jihad against iron. This is resulting in inverts struggling in aquariums. I understand that this is a base element for nuisance algaes but it is also a base element for non-nuisance algae i.e. zoozanthelle.

This normally wouldn't be an issue in a fish only system but you have dipped your toe into another world and be aware of what that means.

Hope that helps.

I just looked at this by Randy in 2015 http://www.reefedition.com/my-triton-testing-results-by-randy-holmes-farley/

"Iron (Fe). The natural iron level varies a lot with depth, but surface seawater may have only 0.006 µg/L. The Triton LOD = 0.3 µg/L. I dose iron, and when I dose it I boost iron to roughly 1-2 µg/L, which would be detectable. This sample was taken more than a week after the last iron dosing, and none was detected as it gets depleted in the meanwhile. I’ve not yet seen a Triton test result for a real aquarium sample that had detectable iron, but that doesn’t mean these tanks are necessarily deficient. Iron is also a case where the form is critical, and ICP cannot distinguish form. Binding to organic matter, for example, can alter the bioavailability of iron."

dthom · Jun 8, 2022

Is that picture the location and look of it as of today?

HuduVudu · Jun 8, 2022

Spare time said:
I just looked at this by Randy in 2015 http://www.reefedition.com/my-triton-testing-results-by-randy-holmes-farley/

"Iron (Fe). The natural iron level varies a lot with depth, but surface seawater may have only 0.006 µg/L. The Triton LOD = 0.3 µg/L. I dose iron, and when I dose it I boost iron to roughly 1-2 µg/L, which would be detectable. This sample was taken more than a week after the last iron dosing, and none was detected as it gets depleted in the meanwhile. I’ve not yet seen a Triton test result for a real aquarium sample that had detectable iron, but that doesn’t mean these tanks are necessarily deficient. Iron is also a case where the form is critical, and ICP cannot distinguish form. Binding to organic matter, for example, can alter the bioavailability of iron."

Zero value ICP, plus the withering anemone, plus a FOWLR tank would lead to an educated guess that is well within realm of possibility that the iron is either too low or non-existent.

My last ATI test showed:
Iron n.u 0.44 μg/l

I dose for iron specifically.

Spare time · Jun 8, 2022

HuduVudu said:
Zero value ICP, plus the withering anemone, plus a FOWLR tank would lead to an educated guess that is well within realm of possibility that the iron is either too low or non-existent.

My last ATI test showed:
Iron n.u 0.44 μg/l

I dose for iron specifically.

I just don't think iron is an issue here. I know bubble tips that are somehow alive in a tank with practically no water changes and no dosing (that tank I am referring to is not a great tank lol). I'd imagine it has more to due with practically no nitrate. Also both of those icp tests may be within the margin of error on them since they don't tell you the error range.