6gal nano tank - inverts dying off, how much water to change?

[introvert.invert_hba]

Hi! My 6g nano is almost a month old. About two weeks ago, I replaced the original water with cycled water from a coral tank from my LFS. Over the course of a week after adding cycled water, I added my animals- Mexican turbo snail, cleaner shrimp, red honey damsel, 3 Astrinia starfish; electric blue hermit, orange tube anemone; (my red honey died after a day in the tank, but the LFS said it was a bad fish cuz they had one from the same batch die same day) so replaced with a neon velvet damsel, feather duster and lettuce sea slug.

All water parameters were within range.

No nitrites/ammonia/phos.

Feeding 1/8 spiraling brine shrimp frozen cube every other day and nori to snail.

After one day of neon velvet damsel being in tank, it started bringing hard and not swimming right. Took back to fish store after if went over three days without eating. The next day my cleaner shrimp died. Two days after that, the hermit crab ripped all of its legs off and one of its claws off and was half way out of its shell by my air stone. One day after that (today) my feather duster feathers were ripped off it’s tube. My nem isn’t fully spread anymore, my snail hasn’t left my big rock in days (which is okay if it’s feeding algae), my slug is still scooting around and my Astrinia always hide in the crevices of the big rock.

Current Paramters:
Water temp: 78F
Ammonia: 0ppm (sea Chem AmmoniaAlert), 0.25ppm (API test vial)
Nitrite: <0.5ppm (tetra 6-in-1 test strip)
Nitrate: 25ppm (Salifert), ~40ppm (tetra 6-in-1test strip)
Phos: between 0.03-0.1 ppm (Salifert)
PH: between 7.8-8.4 (tetra 6-in-1 test strip)
Alkalinity: 300ppm (tetra 6-in-1 test strip)

I don’t understand what is wrong with my tank. If I accidentally poisoned it with an aerosoled chemical from my apartment??? I’m stumped. SOS!
How much water can / should I change to help situate my tank?
Also, I have bio medium and polishing pad in my tank filter.

Also- I’ve already had small amounts of diatoms and GHA, but now I have this red-purple algae on my glass and sand bed.

Last photo is current tank situation.

 

[fishski13]

So basically you did not allow your tank to cycle. Before you add anything into the tank you need to let it cycle and complete the nitrogen cycle. Cycled water does not do anything to a new tank, there is no beneficial bacteria in the water, only on rocks and other filter media. The death of your fish and inverts is directly due to not allowing it to cycle. Ammonia and nitrite should be both at 0 at all times. Your inverts and fish either died from ammonia or received nitrite poisoning.

No water change is going to help this problem as the tank is not cycled yet. You need to let the tank cycle fully and let ammonia and nitrite both reach 0. Than check you nitrates are in range to not put any excessive stress on livestock. Than you can put stuff into your tank.

There is many forums on here that help explain the cycle and how to achieve it, please read those before you decide to put more livestock in your tank before it cycles.

 

[davidcalgary29]

First, I agree that you're tank wasn't sufficiently cycled when you added livestock, and that this factor exacerbated many of your problems.

Second, you had (and have) too much livestock for this size of tank. Your lettuce nudibranch is going to starve without supplemental feedings.

Third, your water flow may be insufficient for your build. You may need to put in a mini powerhead, directed partially at the surface, to break the surface tension of the water, assist gas exchange, and help with oxygenation.

Fourth, you've got to maintain stable parameters. Many pico owners find this challenging, especially without ATO systems. A number of owners perform weekly 100% water changes on their builds.

 

[introvert.invert_hba]

So basically you did not allow your tank to cycle. Before you add anything into the tank you need to let it cycle and complete the nitrogen cycle. Cycled water does not do anything to a new tank, there is no beneficial bacteria in the water, only on rocks and other filter media. The death of your fish and inverts is directly due to not allowing it to cycle. Ammonia and nitrite should be both at 0 at all times. Your inverts and fish either died from ammonia or received nitrite poisoning.

No water change is going to help this problem as the tank is not cycled yet. You need to let the tank cycle fully and let ammonia and nitrite both reach 0. Than check you nitrates are in range to not put any excessive stress on livestock. Than you can put stuff into your tank.

There is many forums on here that help explain the cycle and how to achieve it, please read those before you decide to put more livestock in your tank before it cycles.

Thanks! I started with new everything and added turbo start, but my cycle got stalled. So my LFS suggested adding their cycled water. We tested all my parameters and they were getting no ammonia/nitrite using Salifert and API tests. I have a SeaChem Ammonia alert patch in my tank but it hasn’t changed from 0ppm.

 

[fishski13]

Thanks! I started with new everything and added turbo start, but my cycle got stalled. So my LFS suggested adding their cycled water. We tested all my parameters and they were getting no ammonia/nitrite using Salifert and API tests. I have a SeaChem Ammonia alert patch in my tank but it hasn’t changed from 0ppm.

Yeah that cycled water will do nothing for your tank and in fact just provide you with false information. Since you put that water in, it was free of ammonia and nitrite since their tanks are also free of that. However once it entered your system the cycle in your system released ammonia and nitrite into it.

And I wouldnt trust one of those ammonia alert patches. Its better to stick with the API test kit or salifert. API ammonia test can also give false test results. You know your cycle is done when your nitrite is at zero alongside your ammonia.

 

[introvert.invert_hba]

Update: I went to LFS and they sent me home with an electrical current tester pen. My light and filter are both putting current in my tank, everywhere and there is even a current about an inch away from tank on outside from both.
does this change the situation?

 

[vetteguy53081]

In additional to tank not mature, You mentioned these tests:
Ammonia: 0ppm (sea Chem Ammonia Alert), 0.25ppm (API test vial)
Nitrite: <0.5ppm (tetra 6-in-1 test strip)

Both the strips and Api kits are notorious for false readings and there is a HIGH likelihood that your levels are higher. To confirm this, take a good water sample to a trusted LFS that does NOT use Api kits and have them test your water and see what readings they come up with and to compare with yours.
I will never trust a $7 and $22 kit to maintain $100-$200 in livestock and have a disaster becuase I trusted the readings.

 

[introvert.invert_hba]

Yeah that cycled water will do nothing for your tank and in fact just provide you with false information. Since you put that water in, it was free of ammonia and nitrite since their tanks are also free of that. However once it entered your system the cycle in your system released ammonia and nitrite into it.

And I wouldnt trust one of those ammonia alert patches. Its better to stick with the API test kit or salifert. API ammonia test can also give false test results. You know your cycle is done when your nitrite is at zero alongside your ammonia.

Thank you so much for your helpful advice!

 

[vetteguy53081]

Update: I went to LFS and they sent me home with an electrical current tester pen. My light and filter are both putting current in my tank, everywhere and there is even a current about an inch away from tank on outside from both.
does this change the situation?

Yes- known as stray voltage can impact most livestock depending on electric values.

 

[introvert.invert_hba]

In additional to tank not mature, You mentioned these tests:
Ammonia: 0ppm (sea Chem Ammonia Alert), 0.25ppm (API test vial)
Nitrite: <0.5ppm (tetra 6-in-1 test strip)

Both the strips and Api kits are notorious for false readings and there is a HIGH likelihood that your levels are higher. To confirm this, take a good water sample to a trusted LFS that does NOT use Api kits and have them test your water and see what readings they come up with and to compare with yours.
I will never trust a $7 and $22 kit to maintain $100-$200 in livestock and have a disaster becuase I trusted the readings.

Thanks! What test kits do you recommend using at home?

 

[vetteguy53081]

Thanks! What test kits do you recommend using at home?

Hanna or salifert

 

[Chortanator]

Update: I went to LFS and they sent me home with an electrical current tester pen. My light and filter are both putting current in my tank, everywhere and there is even a current about an inch away from tank on outside from both.
does this change the situation?

An electrical current tester pen and "cycled water"? They should have known that cycled water isn't a thing, and that your tank wasn't cycled yet, especially if they helped you get all the materials in the first place. If everything is new, it's a very very low likelihood that there was stray voltage, especially since your tank is so new. It's pretty much guaranteed to be an uncycled tank that killed your inverts. I would say to seek outside advice rather than your LFS, since it doesn't sound like they know what they're doing.

 

[introvert.invert_hba]

Hanna or salifert

Thank you! I looked at Hanna and I have some Salifert, but haven’t fully made the transition.
and as for the LFS testing, they did both API for most parameters and Salifert for nitrogen species and other but i can’t remember right now.

 

[introvert.invert_hba]

An electrical current tester pen and "cycled water"? They should have known that cycled water isn't a thing, and that your tank wasn't cycled yet, especially if they helped you get all the materials in the first place. If everything is new, it's a very very low likelihood that there was stray voltage, especially since your tank is so new. It's pretty much guaranteed to be an uncycled tank that killed your inverts. I would say to seek outside advice rather than your LFS, since it doesn't sound like they know what they're doing.

They didn’t help me get my tank set up, I got my tank set up by a guy from petco, who is also a hobbyist, that let me go home with two inverts that obviously quickly died. (I know, I clearly messed up. I’m very new.) so then I found a LFS who helped me by turbostart and then their cycled water and now the electrical current. It’s just all around a mess and I’m too committed to just give up now.

 

[Chortanator]

They didn’t help me get my tank set up, I got my tank set up by a guy from petco, who is also a hobbyist, that let me go home with two inverts that obviously quickly died. (I know, I clearly messed up. I’m very new.) so then I found a LFS who helped me by turbostart and then their cycled water and now the electrical current. It’s just all around a mess and I’m too committed to just give up now.

How do the tanks at the LFS look? If they wanted to help, they would have known to give you live rock from their systems - a large chunk of live rock in a small tank would have had you ready in a day. I'm sorry that you're having such bad luck with people who are supposed to be knowledgeable!

 

[introvert.invert_hba]

How do the tanks at the LFS look? If they wanted to help, they would have known to give you live rock from their systems - a large chunk of live rock in a small tank would have had you ready in a day. I'm sorry that you're having such bad luck with people who are supposed to be knowledgeable!

The tanks at the LFS look great! Like awesome. They actually knew the younger guy from Petco and didn’t understand why he let me go home with all of that. The rock I do have in my tank came from the back flow part of coral tank. I don’t quite understand what it’s called but it was underneath the tank and water was draining into it on the rocks. The LFS thought that added turbo start to my tank would have it cycled in day and it wasn’t. It just ended up getting stalled and then they told me I could drain my tank and add their cycled water to what I had and it would be fine. Now they are concerned it’s the electrical current from my tank, which is not a great brand tank, I guess. It’s a top fin which I know is more geared toward freshwater. I just really like corner tanks.

 

[Shawaiz_106]

The tanks at the LFS look great! Like awesome. They actually knew the younger guy from Petco and didn’t understand why he let me go home with all of that. The rock I do have in my tank came from the back flow part of coral tank. I don’t quite understand what it’s called but it was underneath the tank and water was draining into it on the rocks. The LFS thought that added turbo start to my tank would have it cycled in day and it wasn’t. It just ended up getting stalled and then they told me I could drain my tank and add their cycled water to what I had and it would be fine. Now they are concerned it’s the electrical current from my tank, which is not a great brand tank, I guess. It’s a top fin which I know is more geared toward freshwater. I just really like corner tanks.

Any update ?

 

[introvert.invert_hba]

Any update ?

Hi! I actually took the animals that were still alive to the LFS and they held them for me while I returned the tank for being faulty. I bought the 13.5 EVO tank and added the water and sand from the 6 gal and then added more sand and “cycled” water from the LFS. Waited almost a week then put my snails, tube anemone and damsel back in. Since then, my tube anemone has reproduced and I now have a mini tube nem. I have added a diamond watchmen, female emerald crab, female porcelain anemone crab and fighting conch.
Since, I just did one 20% water change today actually, and I have spirorbis aaaand one of my Astrinia starfish survived the tank move. It must’ve been hidden in my rock or in the sand.
Thanks so much for checking in!!

 

[introvert.invert_hba]

Also, my fighting conch climbs

 

[Shawaiz_106]

Also, my fighting conch climbs

Hi! I actually took the animals that were still alive to the LFS and they held them for me while I returned the tank for being faulty. I bought the 13.5 EVO tank and added the water and sand from the 6 gal and then added more sand and “cycled” water from the LFS. Waited almost a week then put my snails, tube anemone and damsel back in. Since then, my tube anemone has reproduced and I now have a mini tube nem. I have added a diamond watchmen, female emerald crab, female porcelain anemone crab and fighting conch.
Since, I just did one 20% water change today actually, and I have spirorbis aaaand one of my Astrinia starfish survived the tank move. It must’ve been hidden in my rock or in the sand.
Thanks so much for checking in!!

Yayy thats good to hear