A lot of known people dont QUARANTINE!!!

[Righteous]

Your refusing to accept science and continue to say prove it to me.

You really believe that your immune system fights off parasites, that you are constantly exposed to?

I don’t believe anything. I have educated myself in the subject extensively and can tell you have not.

Once you can explain to me what a major histocompatibility complex is; and it’s role in the immune system, and prove that I don’t understand it, then you can say I refuse to accept the science. Tell me what an IgE is. Explain it here so people understand.

Read the book I have linked, cover to cover. Then come debate about the immune system. Because you actually don’t know what you are talking about.

 

[Tamberav]

Its certainly part of the process! But have you solved the answer to who and why people get allergies? Because if you know for certain it’s only genetic and not environmental then you’ll make a killing.

All I am saying is environment or exposure didn’t offer a cure ;Drowning

A lifetime of living with cats. Been around since the day I was born. Still allergic to cats. I still got 3 cuz cats are worth the misery but hey maybe if I was never exposed I would break out in hives or something instead. Who knows.

 

[Righteous]

So they get rid of brook? Ich, velvet, tapeworms ect parasites? By immunity? No the parasites follow a life cycle. And are continually attacking the fish. Ich and velvet attack the gills as well as the skin.

Yes!! They do. Again I linked earlier a scientific paper about fish fighting off velvet and the antibodies they produced.

Here it is again in case you missed it:

Acquired immunity to amyloodiniosis is associated with an antibody response - PubMed

The dinoflagellate Amyloodinium ocellatum, which causes amyloodiniosis or 'marine velvet disease', is one of the most serious ectoparasitic diseases plaguing warmwater marine fish culture worldwide. We report that tomato clownfish Amphiprion frenatus develop strong immunity to Amyloodinium...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Righteous]

All I am saying is environment or exposure didn’t offer a cure ;Drowning

A lifetime of living with cats. Been around since the day I was born. Still allergic to cats. I still got 3 cuz cats are worth the misery but hey maybe if I was never exposed I would break out in hives or something instead. Who knows.

A common and very successful treatment is allergy shots. They actually give you the antigens (think cat dander) on a regular and increasing basis. This causes your immune to self regulate and eases symptoms.

 

[Tamberav]

A common and very successful treatment is allergy shots. They actually give you the antigens (think cat dander) on a regular and increasing basis. This causes your immune to self regulate and eases symptoms.

so a life time with cats isn’t good enough? Cuz I’ve never been without a cat.

I don’t care for shots so just keep pounding the Allegra. Hypoallergenic breeds help.

 

[Saltandfresh]

Hello guys I am so so so confused. Should i quarantine or not? A lot of “famous” people on youtube like reef dork, inappropriate reefer, and fish of hex dont quarantine their fish and they have proof of how successful their reef tanks are.

Based on my experience I am an advocate of 1-4 months of quarantining your fish, because i have personally lost thousands and thousands of dollars after not quarantining before on my Fowlr and my nano reef years back.

Now once again I am seeing a lot of people not quarantining fish. I just started my new aquarium and I heard before that I should quarantine before putting it on my DT but what if there are 0 live stocks in there other than a quarantined sps and CUC.

My Red Sea 350 has been running for a couple years. It is fully stocked with fish and coral. I’ve never quarantined. It’s like playing with fire and I just got lucky. If you purchase your live stock from a clean facility, you really decrease the odds of something going wrong. I’m lucky I’m in LA. I get everything from LAX Aquarium. They run a very clean operation.

 

[Righteous]

so a life time with cats isn’t good enough? Cuz I’ve never been without a cat.

I don’t care for shots so just keep pounding the Allegra. Hypoallergenic breeds help.

You might want to consider the shots. They help a lot. The shots will gradually intoduce you to levels of dander you cannot get exposed to even in a room of cats, and do it under the skin where your immune system will be exposed more thoroughly. Imagine injecting yourself with the dander of 100 cats. If you do that first time out you’ll go into anaphylactic shock and die. So they work you up gradually.

Cat dander is actually one of the allergy shots that’s most effective. It takes about 6 months to start to see benefits, and you might be able to stop the Allegra (antihistamines, btw, may play a role in dementia later in life)

 

[Tamberav]

My friend only liked like 3 large tank fulls of fish with velvet. Poor fish. I told him to cut that **** out and buy from Dr Reef and for the first time he has fish that are alive.

 

[Righteous]

@Tamberav

Here’s the link on antihistamines. I have allergies too so am in the same boat:

Common anticholinergic drugs like Benadryl linked to increased dementia risk - Harvard Health

...

www.health.harvard.edu

 

[Tamberav]

You might want to consider the shots. They help a lot. The shots will gradually intoduce you to levels of dander you cannot get exposed to even in a room of cats, and do it under the skin where your immune system will be exposed more thoroughly. Imagine injecting yourself with the dander of 100 cats. If you do that first time out you’ll go into anaphylactic shock and die. So they work you up gradually.

Cat dander is actually one of the allergy shots that’s most effective. It takes about 6 months to start to see benefits, and you might be able to stop the Allegra (antihistamines, btw, may play a role in dementia later in life)

I am pegged for dementia anyways. Had a concussion and fractured skull.

A quick google shows that those studies are related to 1st generation antihistamines. Not second or 3rd.

 

[Shooter6]

I don’t believe anything. I have educated myself in the subject extensively and can tell you have not.

Once you can explain to me what a major histocompatibility complex is; and it’s role in the immune system, and prove that I don’t understand it, then you can say I refuse to accept the science. Tell me what an IgE is. Explain it here so people understand.

Read the book I have linked, cover to cover. Then come debate about the immune system. Because you actually don’t know what you are talking about.

Look im not reading your book of ignorance. I've been in this hobby since 1988, worked at an aquarium store as a kid, studied many reef mags and books back then, have graduated United States Special Operations Medical School.
(Only applies here because of the stupid angle your attempting to play) . You still are not answering my question on why qt and meds are the protocol for every public aquarium, SeaWorld and any marine research facility!

 

[Tamberav]

Also you said antihistamines. It’s about anticholinergic drugs which include SOME allergy meds like Benadryl.

This is why it’s important to talk to a doctor about medical advise and not on a reef forum.

Anyways this is way off topic.

 

[Righteous]

I am pegged for dementia anyways. Had a concussion and fractured skull.

A quick google shows that those studies are related to 1st generation antihistamines. Not second or 3rd.

Yeah that’s correct. There’s some evidence that second generations can have some effect though less. Each one has various levels of anticholinergic effect (I do believe Allegra is one of the better ones)

I also take antihistamines when needed, but I do try to limit it and don’t assume it’s harmless.

 

[Tamberav]

Each one has various levels of anticholinergic (I do believe Allegra is one of the better ones)

Not all allergy meds are anticholinergics. Allegra is not listed as having any anticholinergic effects? It also works better (for me) and it should since it is like 40 bucks a bottle!

Nothing is harmless. Not McDonald’s and not herbal tea. Life is about moderation. My current cats were very expensive so I could live a less miserable.

Little jerks worth every penny… lol Allergies suck.

 

[Righteous]

Look im not reading your book of ignorance.

You’ve got to be trolling! Seriously?? The book is the latest on scientific understanding on the immune system. That statement is what is ignorant. At this point I’m no longer going to respond to you since your just trolling now.

You still are not answering my question on why qt and meds are the protocol for every public aquarium, SeaWorld and any marine research facility!

Whats the question? Why do they use those protocols? Well it’s because they are effective. At no point have I said they’re not. But again there are trade offs and I don’t have the same issues facing my aquarium as SeaWorld. SeaWorld also does lots of ****** stuff like keep Orcas in captivity even though they get depression and die with limp dorsal fins, so they’re not quite the pinnacle of animal welfare.

Arguments from authority (like SeaWorld does it, must be good) don’t hold weight in science anyhow. We don’t move the ball forward on understanding by just copying what others do. We seek out better understanding of what is actually taking place through inquiry and research h.

I don’t believe your open to such things based on your comments so I’m not going to respond to them again at this point.

 

[Righteous]

@Shooter6 One more thing. You’ve stated in multiple posts that the immune system can’t and doesn’t play a role in parasite defense and I proved that specifically and very badly wrong, both through research showing specific antibody response to velvet, along with links to the function of IgE antibodies. At this point, in trying to win some debate with me, you are actively spreading misinformation and that really is not helpful to anyone.

 

[Lasse]

Really, would you let your dog be infected with heartworm, tapeworms ect? Or treat them, to avoid the suffering?

One thing is to treat when you have clear indications of a disease and it is another using heavy medication just in case that the fish can be infested with a parasite. Prophylactic treatment is - IMO - an unnecessary cruelty

Having an ich/parasite free tank is a great feeling.

Yes it is - here is a the report on this issue I get when I send my tank water for analyze. Edit - my tank is 5 years old - no WC the last 4 years

Looks like this

I do not QT but I give all my newcomers an adaption time between 2 - 3 weeks in my refugium. However - a observation QT in a decorated aquarium is not wrong. Prophylactic treatment should not be used at all IMO

It seems like my tank autoadjust and kill of all parasites I introduce - this must be true if the statement that all fish bring in parasites is valid.

It is true that the total patoghen pressure can be higher in an aquarium compared with open sea but there is ways to avoid this. A large coral population, clams, oxidators, ozone and a working UV-C is some examples. Personally - I use clams, dense coral population and an oxidator.

ALL public aquariums qt and medicate all their livestock.

That statement is just not true at all. Especially according to prophylactic treatments.

Simplest answer to the original question is a combination of laziness,ignorance, and lack of care!

The only reason not to QT is because of impatience.

No its not - especially according prophylactic treatments.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Paul B]

So it is fine to add a fish with velvet to your main tank?

Yes of course, but only in an immune tank such as mine and a few others here. In 5 decades with the same tank I am sure I added it many times, maybe last week.

I am not shaming anyone for choosing not to qt/med their livestock, BUT I do HAVE TO call them out for trying to convince others to do the same, as they know they are constantly at risk of a complete wipe out! And are setting others up for the same failure!!

When you say "same failure" you must be assuming that some of our immune tanks are crashing. Mine never did and it is older than most people here. I personally never try to convince anyone to do anything. I refer people to find someone with an old, healthy tank where the fish only die of old age, never have to go on the disease forum and follow them. I wouldn't listen to someone who is constantly on a disease forum. Would you?

Your ignorance floors me. You are still lumping parasites in with bacteria ect. You really believe that your immune system fights off parasites, that you are constantly exposed to?

In my ignorance I am not sure what parasites my own immune system fights off. But I know my fishes immune system fights off parasites and I have posted numerous times scientific date which proves it. But I don't really have to because if that were not true, my tank would have crashed in the 80s.

Oh I will add a little anyway just because it is to early to go walking and I have to kill 10 minutes.
This is an article about immunity in fish:

Defenses in Fish SkinMaría Ángeles Esteban)
Quote: Immunity associated with the parasites depends on the inhabiting discrete sites in the host. Especially important for this paper are the ectoparasites, those habiting in or on the skin. Until recently there had been little direct evidence of innate immune mechanisms against parasites associated with mucosal epithelium [285]. The active immunological role of skin against parasitic infection has been shown recently [286–288], and now mucosal immunity against them start to be elucidated.

 

[Jeffcb]

Do you give your dog heartworm protection/ flea protection meds? ( anti parasite) or do you just say we'll you didnt die from fleas yet so your immune system must be strong enough to keep them away? That's what your promoting others to do with their fish.

Your incorrect. I thought this thread was about QT of fish before they are introduced into a DT. I dont quarintine. If you want to play fish doctor go ahead. I am not into it. I dont have a dog btw. If I did have a dog I wouldnt quarrintine a healthy dog in a kennel for 2 months to see if it got sick. Would you?

 

[DracoKat]

some reason I've lost more fish QTing than putting in the DT. Im not exactly sure why, they'd do great in QT for a few weeks, with or without meds, and suddenly they're dead. Put them in DT and they live.