A lot of led fixture question

[mtraylor]

I don't own a PAR meter. I have 4 mitras over my 255 gallon aquarium. No issues. No complaints as everyone wants to imply.

 

[A. grandis]

Yeah you cant compare a hydra 26 with a 250MH. No way!

Can you compare any of the single best LED fixtures with a 250W MH?
This is a legitimate question, by the way!
Grandis?

 

[A. grandis]

If I recall correctly, Sanjay Joshi runs double the amount of Radion g4 fixtures compared to mh fixtures he used to run.

That is true. They run at 100%.
Grandis.

 

[A. grandis]

BRS compared the new phillips led lights (not available in the US yet) to the ATIs T-5 . With the diffuser screen, the philips leds spreads was evenly dispersed and very close to phillps par and spectrum wavelengths but to my surprise they used about the same power.

that appears to indicate that if you build leds with a layout that addresses the light concentration and disco ball issues of LEDs to closely mimic T5s, the energy efficiency you'd expect with LEDs may not be there.

Yeah, most likely.
Grandis.

 

[jda]

Dr Joshi has 10 xr30 radions that replaced 3 MHs.

Watts is not meaningless. It can be misleading. So can PAR. PAR only captures about 450nm to 670nm accurately - below 450nm is only partially captured and nothing in the far-red is captured. Light sources with spectrum down to 350nm and up to 850nm, all of which is useful, will have significantly more output than a LED with the same PAR reading since the meter will not capture these.

 

[Roy 9121]

I see so many people adding so many led fixtures over there tank and I don’t understand why . I asked about lighting help for a new tank . It’s 72 x19x20 and I had someone say put 6 hydra 26 hd and T5 over it . What I don’t get is If I was going MH I would just put 3 250 Phoenix 14ks over it with two actinic. I would never put six . Are leds just that inadequate?

I would say 6 hydra 26s is a littler bit ood overkill. My tank is 55 gallon, 36x 25x24, I have 1 hydra 52, and it seems ego work fine. Maybe 4 26s, if you go that route.

 

[NS Mike D]

Dr Joshi has 10 xr30 radions that replaced 3 MHs.

Watts is not meaningless. It can be misleading. So can PAR. PAR only captures about 450nm to 670nm accurately - below 450nm is only partially captured and nothing in the far-red is captured. Light sources with spectrum down to 350nm and up to 850nm, all of which is useful, will have significantly more output than a LED with the same PAR reading since the meter will not capture these.

my bad, I intended to include wavelength data as well in my post about what light manufacturers now include to help hobbyists.

 

[Finhead]

Well I don't know the background of what you are talking about, but I will chime in on what you have presented to see if I can help. If you or whomever decided that they wanted a lighting system for say sps (I only say sps because of the recommendation) and the light of choice was Hydra 26's. Then that was a poor decision for the application. SPS require more PAR then most corals. Since the selected light in the title is only a 90watt light, it will not emit enough PAR for SPS. This is not getting into the optics and spread of light either .....etc. etc. Thus you will have to have more to make up for the poor choice, even though the tank is not very deep. So the recommendation is right on point with the light choice in my best guess. You got a pretty accurate recommendation. It would be like choosing 100W MH's if you could get such a thing. You would need more than 3 for SPS.

Now say you picked up more adequate lights for the chore (sps theme) say 3 Radion G4's or 3 Mitras 7206's then you would not have an issue growing anything and they will be LED fixtures that you can compare apples to apples to say a 250MH with supplements. If you are an early reefer, then PAR meter is a good thing to compare lights with. Season Reefers may only use their corals to tell them what PAR is needed and if they need more light or an adjustment. So if you want 3 pendants then get one of the of recommendations I have posted above, or you can also get 3 kessels to hang light pendants as well. I will let the kessel users chime in there.

I hope this helps and its not intended to bash any light manufacturer or anything. Just trying to help you understand LED's. Now if I"m off base with what you were needed lights for, then that's another story. LOL.

Say you just want lights for say fish only then maybe 3 hydra 26's is all you need.

Hav you tested the PAR on the Hydra 26's? I have with 2 26's (non HD) and 4 36" T5's at 12" below water line and 12" hieght above the WL at 85% Blues 25% whites 350 par, at 4" below WL 550par . Way more than enough to grow any SPS you want. I run them at 10" off the WL in a shallow reef , top SPS get over 600 par.

 

[Roy 9121]

I would say the Ford F150 is the best selling truck for a reason and that's why I drive one.

I work for Toyota but a Tundra or Tacoma will never be the best selling truck. Neither will Chevy or any other make or model.

Now that we can all agree on who makes the best selling truck let's just skip the whole discussion on which lights are the best. Thanks

To those running mh they are the best. To those running t5 they are the best. To those running led they are the best. To those running hybrid they are the best. I say just buy what you think is the best.

Having used all of them I know which are the best. ******* are and always will be the best. I would say ******are probably a close second.

Actually, GMC/Chevy sell more trucks.

 

[mtraylor]

Can you compare any of the single best LED fixtures with a 250W MH?
This is a legitimate question, by the way!
Grandis?

Yes. I will take my one Mitras 6300 to a 250MH Radium MH any day. IMO it way out performs the 250MH In every way. I'm an old school MH guy BTW. When I ran 250 MH's with actinics, I quickly went away from 250 MH's because it wasn't giving me the PAR I needed for certain SPS. So I went to 400W MH's with VHO actinics. It was the bomb btw.

Today I run Mitras 6300's, first generation 6100's upgraded pucks. Its basically like a 325MH to 350MH if there was such a thing for comparison with actinics. So the one fixture is better than a 250MH with actinics. The LED covers both fixtures in one and colors up corals better than a 250MH. Oh and it uses less power and can cover more spectrum than a halide, and I don't have to change bulbs. Been running fixtures of over 6 years now. No issues.

Its not as power full as a 400 MH that is why I'm running 4. The new 7206 fixtures will actually let you divert power from led's that you are not using to overdrive the other corals. I bet its pretty close to 400wMH if dialed in correctly on the right spectrum. I don't know, but from the success I'm having....I would have to say YEP!

I have ran MH's for years, T12's, T5, Power compacts, and T8's. So I have been there and done that.

I"m not telling you that this light is better than that light, but I know what I enjoy and its my Mitras! Hands down. I have over 40 colonies of SPS in my aquarium and they are thriving with no issues.

 

[NS Mike D]

I don't own a PAR meter. I have 4 mitras over my 255 gallon aquarium. No issues. No complaints as everyone wants to imply.

MH are great, but I do think the heat issue should not be dismissed, especially for tanks where it can drive up tank temps without additional fans or a chiller. This is where T5s and LEDs are advantaged. I do think LEDs struggle to get the even spread that you see in T5 and MHs - but that is changing with better diffusers.

I'm with A. Grandis in that they all have their pros and cons and the debates can go on and on. Best to understand what each can do and then decide what light or combination is best for the hobbyists needs and wants. Commercial sps dealers run lights differently that the hobbyist who wants to enjoy viewing his'her tank after a long day at work.

There are enough tanks out there looking great with MH, T5s and LEDs to conclude that each will grow corals very well. IMO.

 

[Mark Gray]

Here's my 2 cents I really like LEDs I ran MH VHO T12 T5 and now LEDS. They grow coral very well, you can adjust them to your viewing pleasure. They save me quite a bit, I live in Georgia and it's hot in the summer LEDs run cool, so my AC dosent have to work so hard. I the winter it would not matter. But one thing about LEDS they are not plug and play like MH or T5s

 

[Daltrey]

Actually, GMC/Chevy sell more trucks.

Haha, That doesn’t change the fact that Ford is still the best selling truck.

http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2018/01/best-selling-pickup-trucks-december-2017.html

 

[Mark Gray]

I would say the Ford F150 is the best selling truck for a reason and that's why I drive one.

I work for Toyota but a Tundra or Tacoma will never be the best selling truck. Neither will Chevy or any other make or model.

Now that we can all agree on who makes the best selling truck let's just skip the whole discussion on which lights are the best. Thanks

To those running mh they are the best. To those running t5 they are the best. To those running led they are the best. To those running hybrid they are the best. I say just buy what you think is the best.

Having used all of them I know which are the best. ******* are and always will be the best. I would say ******are probably a close second.

Lol I am not a Ford fan

 

[mtraylor]

Hav you tested the PAR on the Hydra 26's? I have with 2 26's (non HD) and 4 36" T5's at 12" below water line and 12" hieght above the WL at 85% Blues 25% whites 350 par, at 4" below WL 550par . Way more than enough to grow any SPS you want. I run them at 10" off the WL in a shallow reef , top SPS get over 600 par.

No I have not. I do not have a power meter, so I"m not sure where you going with that. If I had say 1 double ended 150watt MH with 2 26's(non HD) at 12" below water line and 12" height above the WL....yada yada yada and I can grow anything I want. Yep I agree with you. I could throw in a 25oW MH with the Hyrdras as well and say they same thing. This is not proving that LED fixtures stand alone and can replace some other lighting.

Bottom line. You still cant compare a single hydra 26 to one 250w MH. The 250MH will swallow it up.

Since you have a power meter. take one Hydra 26 and one 250MH and get back to us and let us know what you get. I think that was the point of the original post I think.

 

[jda]

AcroOptics has panels that are supposed to replace 250W MH. The four foot fixture is about 800 watts. If you get enough of anything and power, you can make it work. On an integrating sphere with spectrometer, it took 2.5 Gen 3 Radions to have the same number of Radiated watts as a 20K radium on electronic ballast... and more than 3 to meet it on M80. This study showed us that it takes almost identical input watts to get the same radiated watts. Most good universities with Engineering Programs will have stuff like this - send a note to a professor or PHD candidate and see if they will let you use one... the guys were are geeked up to have us bring stuff to the alma mater.

The 325W MH solution is HQI... that is about what they run... which is why the are output monsters.

With the emergence of the necessity and benefits of far red, it will not be long until LED manufacturers will be adding in IR - some already are. Be prepared to have your fans ready for your LEDs soon. ...BTW - I have never needed anything more than fans that turn on with the light to keep my tanks cool... if you wait until the water starts to heat up, then you are already behind. Here is Colorado, heating is 60-70% of my tank bill, so I welcome any heat possible with open arms.

 

[Finhead]

No I have not. I do not have a power meter, so I"m not sure where you going with that. If I had say 1 double ended 150watt MH with 2 26's(non HD) at 12" below water line and 12" height above the WL....yada yada yada and I can grow anything I want. Yep I agree with you. I could throw in a 25oW MH with the Hyrdras as well and say they same thing. This is not proving that LED fixtures stand alone and can replace some other lighting.

Bottom line. You still cant compare a single hydra 26 to one 250w MH. The 250MH will swallow it up.

Since you have a power meter. take one Hydra 26 and one 250MH and get back to us and let us know what you get. I think that was the point of the original post I think.

I was never comparing The Hydras with the MH yad yada. I was replying to your statment that the Hydras can't grow SPS, they most certianly can.

 

[Mark Gray]

True

AcroOptics has panels that are supposed to replace 250W MH. The four foot fixture is about 800 watts. If you get enough of anything and power, you can make it work. On an integrating sphere with spectrometer, it took 2.5 Gen 3 Radions to have the same number of Radiated watts as a 20K radium on electronic ballast... and more than 3 to meet it on M80. This study showed us that it takes almost identical input watts to get the same radiated watts. Most good universities with Engineering Programs will have stuff like this - send a note to a professor or PHD candidate and see if they will let you use one... the guys were are geeked up to have us bring stuff to the alma mater.

The 325W MH solution is HQI... that is about what they run... which is why the are output monsters.

With the emergence of the necessity and benefits of far red, it will not be long until LED manufacturers will be adding in IR - some already are. Be prepared to have your fans ready for your LEDs soon. ...BTW - I have never needed anything more than fans that turn on with the light to keep my tanks cool... if you wait until the water starts to heat up, then you are already behind. Here is Colorado, heating is 60-70% of my tank bill, so I welcome any heat possible with open arms.

heat is good in Colorado but it's bad in Georgia

 

[A. grandis]

Dr Joshi has 10 xr30 radions that replaced 3 MHs.

Watts is not meaningless. It can be misleading. So can PAR. PAR only captures about 450nm to 670nm accurately - below 450nm is only partially captured and nothing in the far-red is captured. Light sources with spectrum down to 350nm and up to 850nm, all of which is useful, will have significantly more output than a LED with the same PAR reading since the meter will not capture these.

I think Dr. Joshy has G4s now...

Precisely! And MHs will offer more of those spectrum areas than any other artificial light source over our tanks.

And I believe there is some more to it, that we still don't understand. At least I don't. Hehe.
PAR comparison can still be used to check bulb for replacement and possibly be helpful for some people positioning their corals in their tanks, I would say.
Grandis.

 

[mtraylor]

MH are great, but I do think the heat issue should not be dismissed, especially for tanks where it can drive up tank temps without additional fans or a chiller. This is where T5s and LEDs are advantaged. I do think LEDs struggle to get the even spread that you see in T5 and MHs - but that is changing with better diffusers.

I'm with A. Grandis in that they all have their pros and cons and the debates can go on and on. Best to understand what each can do and then decide what light or combination is best for the hobbyists needs and wants. Commercial sps dealers run lights differently that the hobbyist who wants to enjoy viewing his'her tank after a long day at work.

There are enough tanks out there looking great with MH, T5s and LEDs to conclude that each will grow corals very well. IMO.

There are no heat issues with 250W MH's. You only run into heat issues with 400 Watt MH's. Ran them both. Only need a chiller with 400W MH's. Those suckers are hot.