About to give up on Cuprimine in my QT

Bazzar1986 · Jun 18, 2016

This is my second Round of QT using Cuprimine and I'm having problems...

Fish in QT, Yellow Tang, Blonde Nasso Tang, White Cheek Tang, Carpenters Flasher Wrasse, Scotts Fairy Wrasse and another Fairy Wrasse which I cant remember the name of right now lol.

All fish eating the first day. Raised level slow (7 days) to .4, all fish acted normally except the white cheek tang who stopped eating for a day or so after the last dose of copper but resumed eating a little soon after. Its now been 10 days at .4 cuprimine and I wake up to the whitecheek laying on the bottom of the tank breathing heavily, poked at him and he would swim a little but end up on the bottom and just fall over. My Powder blue did the same thing and died soon after in the last round of QT.

I have the White cheek in a bucket acclimating to the display water trying to get the copper out and see if I can revive him, been 2 hours and he's acting a little better, I plan to monitor him for another 2 hours or so and see what happens.

Now I'm looking at the QT and notice the Nasso breathing really rapidly and one of the wrasses is hiding which he doesn't normally do and seems lethargic also. So I went ahead and put a big bag of Carbon in the QT to Start removing the cuprimine.

And here I sit trying to figure out what to do now...
Not sure what to do with the white cheek if he pulls thru, If I put him in the display I can almost guarantee going back to "Ich Management" protocol but hate to do that to the few fish that I believe to be Ich Free from the last round of QT (they lived in a Ich management tank for 3 years). But I'm also tired of losing fish which I believe would still be alive today if I didn't QT them with Copper and just went ahead and dumped them in the 180 and continued with Ich Management.

Any Input People? What would you do?

Bazzar1986 · Jun 18, 2016

I think I Shoulda Named the Thread About to give up on a 'Ich Free" tank.

Duke4Life · Jun 18, 2016

Have you tried ttm for ich? Ttm is what I would be doing because some of what you mentioned can be sensitive to copper.

Duke4Life · Jun 18, 2016

Bazzar1986 said:
I think I Shoulda Named the Thread About to give up on a 'Ich Free" tank.

I've lost half of what I've put through qt. Never give up, just have patience and get better.

jcdeng · Jun 18, 2016

did you test for amonia levels? that seems a lot of fish to be qt'd at the same time.

vedros74 · Jun 18, 2016

I had the same experience with cupramine and an LFS recommend copper power. According to the label it's 60 times less toxic than the copper in cupramine. I have put powder blues,purple tangs,potters wrasse,Scott's wrasse,black leopard, jeweled wrasse,Scott's wrasse,Angels,blennies and clowns through it with no issues at all. I have a friend run his Achilles and numerous sensitive wrasse through it with no issues at all. It's the only copper I use. I believe copper safe is the same type of chelated copper as used in copper power

Bazzar1986 · Jun 18, 2016

That's where I am about 50% loss so far in my QT.
Ammonia is fine I have a Ammonia Alert and its never registered anything.
QT is a 75g RR with 20g sump and a jeabao WP 8 for flow.
Is the Copper Powder Chloroquine phosphate?

vedros74 · Jun 18, 2016

No it's called copper power. It's a liquid

vedros74 · Jun 18, 2016

Bazzar1986 · Jun 18, 2016

vedros74 said:

Thanks for that.

vedros74 · Jun 18, 2016

No problem you'll need an API test kit because you have to keep it at 2.5 but it's been a life saver with my fish. Good luck to you

Humblefish · Jun 19, 2016

+1 to all of @vedros74's statements. It can be very hit or miss as to whether or not a particular fish can survive in copper. However based upon anecdotal evidence, it seems most fish handle chelated copper (exs. Coppersafe, Copper Power) easier than ionic (ex. Cupramine).

Bazzar1986 · Jun 19, 2016

Just lost the white cheek... he never fully recovered.
Now my nasso and one of the wrasses are exhibiting the same lethargic disorientated behavior in the QT...
Did a 40% WC and put in a big bag of carbon yesterday after I found the White Cheek...

How does a fish go from swimming, eating, full of energy to I can reach into the tank with my hand and grab them Lethargic in less then 24 hours?
I'm at a loss... Cant stand watching a fish at the LFS for a month just to bring them home and watch them Die in the QT for no obvious reason.

The Yellow tang, Scotts and Carpenters are all still looking fine though? I just don't get it...
Any Ideas?

robby2782 · Jun 19, 2016

Is your ammonia at 0? If not, I would do some large water changes to dilute it.

Humblefish · Jun 19, 2016

Bazzar1986 said:
How does a fish go from swimming, eating, full of energy to I can reach into the tank with my hand and grab them Lethargic in less then 24 hours?
I'm at a loss... Cant stand watching a fish at the LFS for a month just to bring them home and watch them Die in the QT for no obvious reason.

The Yellow tang, Scotts and Carpenters are all still looking fine though? I just don't get it...
Any Ideas?

Copper is a poison, pure & simple. There is nothing easy or gentle about it. It works because most of the time the fish can last longer in it than the parasites.

I would look into TTM as a QT protocol, as that involves using no harsh chemicals: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/tank-transfer-method.192655/

Or Chloroquine phosphate is a better alternative than using copper: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/chloroquine-phosphate.192309/