Accelerated coral growth tricks.

[ReeferB28]

Someone do the experiment with me. Lets keep in touch and compare results! Reply to me if you want to participate.

Once I'm up and running again, I'd be happy to take on the experiment with you. I've been eager to try It with sps!

 

[ReeferB28]

He did, but that is still 8 hours of peak lighting per day which is more than most people run.

That was the point I was trying to get at.
The whole purpose of the study was to determine when the peak production of zooxanthelle was, and the affect of light dependent and light independent reactions.
Basically, using the peak production time, while allowing the algae cells to essentially recharge. Thus, gaining two max growth periods in 24 hours.

 

[Hans-Werner]

Reference any of Calfo's publications for enhancing coral growth. Elevate pH +8.3, elevate alkalinity 10-12 dKh, elevate calcium 480 ppm, elevate magnesium 1500 ppm, correct spectrum lighting at recommended PAR for the organisms, good water husbandry and movement.

Reefing seems to be easy ...;) I think only increasing the limiting factor helps. If phosphate is growth limiting increasing alkalinity over 7 will not help at all. Similar thing with some trace metals. The challenge is to find out what the limiting factor is.

Like was already written the link is about movement of zooxanthellae, I found nothing about growth. With Scholar Google I found nothing about growth of corals at reduced L-D-cycles at all. So some scepticism may be appropriate.

If this claim is true this would mean growth in corals works more like egg laying in hens, more and shorter days, more eggs. This would also mean sum of light energy supplied is of minor importance, the L-D-cycle initiates growth directly, somehow.

 

[ReeferB28]

Reefing seems to be easy ...;) I think only increasing the limiting factor helps. If phosphate is growth limiting increasing alkalinity over 7 will not help at all. Similar thing with some trace metals. The challenge is to find out what the limiting factor is.

Like was already written the link is about movement of zooxanthellae, I found nothing about growth. With Scholar Google I found nothing about growth of corals at reduced L-D-cycles at all. So some scepticism may be appropriate.

If this claim is true this would mean growth in corals works more like egg laying in hens, more and shorter days, more eggs. This would also mean sum of light energy supplied is of minor importance, the L-D-cycle initiates growth directly, somehow.

I understand your hangups regarding increased growth rates. But , the topic was from 04, and it was ,"experimental". They did point out that the zooxanthelle had adapted to do the vast majority of their production during peak sunlight only. I should have said that this was simply taken into account by the non-scientific community, and implemented as part of a regimen by people interested in accelerating growth. The additional findings, etc were written in the book in detail.

 

[mkwarner77]

Food for thought....Most of us are in this hobby for the long haul. Accelerated growth, in my opinion, isn't worth the extra hassle. alot of effort to get your tank looking like what you want in 6-8 months vs, 12-18..Payoff hardly seems worth it, not that we're ever truly happy with the way our tank looks.

 

[Brew12]

I'd also be interested to know what happens when you take a frag from a "2 light cycles a day" frag tank and move it to your main display tank with a regular "one light cycle a day" system. Especially with SPS, I'd expect significant changes in color/density of the coral and possibly changes in growth patterns.

I would absolutely expect changes in color and growth patterns. I'm not sure how significant they would be, but I suspect that it would be noticeable.

This would also mean sum of light energy supplied is of minor importance, the L-D-cycle initiates growth directly, somehow.

I'm not sure that is a fair assessment. I see the question as asking if a coral can better utilize the same amount of light energy if split between two shorter lighting cycles as opposed to a single longer cycle. An interesting follow up would be if coral could utilize even more light if split between two cycles as opposed to one longer one.

 

[Hans-Werner]

I'm not sure that is a fair assessment. I see the question as asking if a coral can better utilize the same amount of light energy if split between two shorter lighting cycles as opposed to a single longer cycle. An interesting follow up would be if coral could utilize even more light if split between two cycles as opposed to one longer one.

Yes, correct, but this would imply some mechanism of exhaustion or saturation of growth, more or less independent from light intensity, nutrient availability etc..

 

[Brew12]

Yes, correct, but this would imply some mechanism of exhaustion or saturation of growth, more or less independent from light intensity, nutrient availability etc..

I think it could be directly related to light intensity.

Unless I don't undertand it correctly, corals can utilize high PAR for a limited amount of time before they become saturated and start releasing excess energy. Additional lighting beyond this point is pretty much wasted. By putting a dark period in between the lighting periods it gives more time for the Xanthophyll cycle to prepare the coral for more lighting.
If PAR isn't high enough to saturate the coral during the lighting cycle, this idea should have no positive impact. However, if the coral are saturated after 4 hours then the pause should allow that second 4 hour lighting window to be utilized with less energy dumped as waste.

 

[Hans-Werner]

I am not sure. I only know of saturation of photosynthesis by light intensity, like shown here by Dana Riddle, not by duration. As far as I know the xanthophyll cycle is a protection mechanisms that only avoids damage of the photosynthetic apparatus. It does not increase the utilization of light energy.

Besides this coral growth not only depends from photosynthesis but also from essential building blocks like phosphate. I think this cannot be veryfied or falsified by theory. This would have to be proven in scientific experiments which seem not have been done yet.

 

[Brew12]

I was using one of Dana's articles as a reference. Linked it earlier if you didn't see it.
https://www.advancedaquarist.com/2004/7/aafeature

The key parts I was looking at.
"1. A moderate amount of light (or PAR - photosynthetically active radiation) falls upon one of the many thylakoid membranes (brown line) containing a Photosynthetic Unit (consisting of one Photosystem II and one Photosystem I) within a healthy zoxanthella. Photosystem II (PS II) photopigments absorb PAR and transfer its energy to a 'Reaction Center' within PS II. Note that some variable chlorophyll a fluorescence occurs even at moderate light intensity, as Reaction Centers absorb light and begin to 'close.' One oxygen molecule is created for every two water molecules split."

"4. Under conditions of high PAR intensity, 'safety valves' for excess light energy come into play. PS II reaction centers absorb as much energy as they can (photosynthesis is said to be 'saturated' when all reaction centers are 'closed'), and two safeties dump excess energy:"

"6. Transfer of energy to the '_Xanthophyll Cycle_,' where energy absorbed by the antennae pigments is dissipated as non-radiant heat, and involves the reversible, light-mediated conversion of diadinoxanthin to diatoxanthin within zooxanthellae of corals.
7. In darkness, PS II chlorophyll fluorescence is at a minimum, and no photochemistry occurs. However, the Xanthophyll Cycle continues with conversion of diatoxanthin back to diadinoxanthin."

Completely agree that this only would work if the energy available from photosynthesis is the limiting factor in an aquarium for growth.

 

[Hans-Werner]

Thank you for the citation but this only shows how a PAM fluorometer works. These reactions do not take place in a matter of hours but in milliseconds. Xanthophyll cycle and the conversion of diatoxanthin to diadinoxanthin is only a "security valve" or overflow mechanisms which does not utilize energy. It takes place when energy utilization is saturated and discharges excess energy.

But you may be right that the shortened light period may improve the xanthophyll cycle and repairing of the photosynthetic apparatus before photosynthetic pigments are bleached and destroyed. Also exhausted nutrient reservoirs may get filled up and improve photosynthesis in this way. I don't want to exclude all these possibilities they just seem not to be proven.

 

[Stuartmercer]

okay here is the test Im doing to prove this. here is the link if you want to follow along:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/d...t-really-increase-growth.608648/#post-6131279

 

[G8rBait92]

Has anyone here tried this for a long period of time? Seems anecdotal at best-- so many other factors to consider than just light.

 

[Stuartmercer]

Has anyone here tried this for a long period of time? Seems anecdotal at best-- so many other factors to consider than just light.

I am trying to test this actually.

 

[Brew12]

Thank you for the citation but this only shows how a PAM fluorometer works. These reactions do not take place in a matter of hours but in milliseconds. Xanthophyll cycle and the conversion of diatoxanthin to diadinoxanthin is only a "security valve" or overflow mechanisms which does not utilize energy. It takes place when energy utilization is saturated and discharges excess energy.

But you may be right that the shortened light period may improve the xanthophyll cycle and repairing of the photosynthetic apparatus before photosynthetic pigments are bleached and destroyed. Also exhausted nutrient reservoirs may get filled up and improve photosynthesis in this way. I don't want to exclude all these possibilities they just seem not to be proven.

I was under the impression only the first part of the article was how a PAM fluorometer works and that the majority was discussing zooxanthellae.
I was not aware that those reactions occur so quickly. Add this to the list of things I need to work on.

 

[Stuartmercer]

Once I'm up and running again, I'd be happy to take on the experiment with you. I've been eager to try It with sps!

Sweet! I can do softies and LPs then!

 

[nmqtrhrse]

I appreciate your post. I try to be open minded most of the time. Thank you.

 

[ReeferB28]

Has anyone here tried this for a long period of time? Seems anecdotal at best-- so many other factors to consider than just light.

Light is only part of the equation. Adequate par, along with proper reef chemistry.

 

[Hans-Werner]

I was under the impression only the first part of the article was how a PAM fluorometer works and that the majority was discussing zooxanthellae.
I was not aware that those reactions occur so quickly. Add this to the list of things I need to work on.

The processes described are the processes of photosynthesis which take place in milliseconds. There is some effect of Illumination that lasts longer, maybe half an hour or a few hours. I think it is the complete restorage of the photosynthetic apparatus and the complete elimination of all fluorescence that is not caused by the flash of the fluorometer. This is why usually organisms are taken that are under darkness for at least half an hour or so. I would have to look into the proper use of a PAM fluorometer to say it more precise. I don´t think that it has any significant effect on growth.

In my eyes to do reliable experiments in lighting with only one or few tanks and without much replication you would need a very long tank, lets say 8 feet or so long. This is the only way to ensure conditions as even as possible for alle corals. Then you place the different lighting regimes, here the different L-D-cycles, over the left and the right half. Try to shield them as good as possible from the other side. Use fragments of the same corals and of similar size on both sides and photograph the starting conditions. Then start the test, let it run for some time and show us how it goes.:) I think a coral breeder might have the ideal setup and some interest in the results.:)

 

[ReeferB28]

I really glad to see the way this thread is Going , plus what stuartmercer is doing. Honestly , this was my end goal really. To get people to talk about this subject, and inspire eachother to Experiment, and share research results. On A side note, Who is going to RAP New York this year? Maybe we can all meet up and discuss further in person.