Achilles And Gem Tang Ich!

[Daniel400G]

He's still alive. Wow .I thought for sure this morning was going to find him floating .

Moving more than last night.

The white spots are bigger, but seem like they might be falling off .

Any suggestions?

 

[Daniel400G]

 

[Daniel400G]

 

[Daniel400G]

 

[Daniel400G]

1 hour later see pictures below.

The white spots are not less,

Is this velvet or ich based on pictures ??

Is he gonna make it?

Copper is around 4-5, tested 2 times and hard for me to tell with test kit,

This whole thing is making me go crazy.....

Comments are appreciated.

 

[Daniel400G]

 

[Daniel400G]

 

[Daniel400G]

 

[HotRocks]

When you say copper is 4-5 your meaning .4-.5 correct? Your using the seachem test kit?

I have never seen any Acanthurus bounce back from being on it's side. But you may have a unicorn!

Is he eating still?

 

[Daniel400G]

Yes to copper at .4 to .5
Testing with seachem test with the blue colour chart .

Not eating, but I do have some hope.

Is this ich or velvet?
He's more black now with bumps
90 percent of the white spots are gone.

Now what?

 

[HotRocks]

For sure velvet, 100%. Remember the white spots are entrance points and irritation from the parasites. The actual parasite isn't visible to the naked eye. The thing you hope for now is that he starts eating, and his gills haven't been damaged beyond healing. The reason you aren't seeing spots now is because your copper is at a therapudic level. What kind of food do you feed and do you add supplements like selcon?

 

[Daniel400G]

Being careful not to pollute the water, I am feeding,
Brine spirulina (half cube morning and half night)

Mysis, rinse before putting in tank. Sprayed with garlic 10 min for putting in the tank .
Half cube morning half night

New life spectrum pellets . Morning and night.

Clip of nori on glass at all times.

He was eating like a pig Friday before I put him in QT .

Still looks good in terms of weight.

I am trying all the food I have.

 

[HotRocks]

Yeah, I would be very careful to not get too much uneaten food rolling around in the QT.

Man, I think you have done really all you can do up to this point. It's now a hope for the best prepare for the worst senario.

Here is the problem with such a fragile fish and marine velvet. Velvet requires almost immediate therapeutic copper. Major appetite suppression. Not to mention the fish is already stressed big time from the parasites. Achilles can be hard to get to eat (speaking of new arrival) with no copper present.
Ideally get the fish eating, slowly ramp copper, so fish continue to eat. Can't be done with velvet unfortunately.

If he does begin to eat. I would get supplements for the food to try to boost his immune system.

 

[Big G]

Can you get any black worms? The big danger now is a secondary bacterial infection. The acriflavine bath would really help here. I like Ruby Reef Rally but Acriflavine MS will also do the job.

 

[Big G]

The black spots are possible infection points. That's why the recommendation on the Ruby Reef Rally. It has both antiseptic and antibiotic qualities that work wonders to help heal and prevent bacterial infections.
Do you have any antibiotics on hand? Metroplex, Kanaplex, Furan2 are what we call the trifecta that treats both gram negative and gram positive bacterial infections and are highly recommended at this stage of treatment. See Humblefish's link for the big picture.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/velvet-amyloodinium-ocellatum.217570/#post-2499399
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/the-bacterial-infection-predicament.310311/#post-3816129

 

[Big G]

Copper is around 4-5, tested 2 times and hard for me to tell with test kit,

My wife is an artist and she taught me this trick to discern color comparison/differences. In a brightly lit room or outside, but not in direct sunlight, squint your eyes just a bit when looking at the color chart and test sample. Sounds crazy but actually works for me.

 

[Josh Kraft]

Can you get any black worms? The big danger now is a secondary bacterial infection. The acriflavine bath would really help here. I like Ruby Reef Rally but Acriflavine MS will also do the job.

Where are you from? Some area have black worms in LFS, or maybe you'll get lucky and someone in this post is nearby and has some.

 

[Daniel400G]

Big G thanks for the colour chard advise, but the colours are still not working for me, I can tell for sure that it is at least 4.5 and not more than 5.5

Day 4 update on Achilles,

Still alive.
Not eating, upright but not active.
Local petstore opens in one hour.

Need some advise please.

Going to purchase the Ruby Reef Rally.
Possible Seachem Kanaplex?., can it be used with the copper?
Should i try it?

Do freshwater dip first for 5 min? (or not)

How long do I left him in the Ruby Reef solution? (or not, just freshwater dip, or both)

I am just thinking all of this might stress him out even more and kill him?

Thanks again...

 

[Big G]

Big G thanks for the colour chard advise, but the colours are still not working for me, I can tell for sure that it is at least 4.5 and not more than 5.5

Day 4 update on Achilles,

Still alive.
Not eating, upright but not active.
Local petstore opens in one hour.

Need some advise please.

Going to purchase the Ruby Reef Rally.
Possible Seachem Kanaplex?., can it be used with the copper?
Should i try it?

Do freshwater dip first for 5 min? (or not)

How long do I left him in the Ruby Reef solution? (or not, just freshwater dip, or both)

I am just thinking all of this might stress him out even more and kill him?

Thanks again...

Tough decision time for you. I know the fish is weak. But it needs to be treated.

A 5 min dip and then immediately into the Ruby Reef Rally bath would be good as the fw will force off more parasites and then the bath will treat it with the antibiotic and antiseptic help it needs. So you have a choice, depending on how you see your fish's condition do the FW and bath, or just the bath if you think he is too weak for the FW dip.

And yes, the Kanaplex can be used with copper. But at great risk. Here's a posting by Humblefish on that exact situation:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/the-bacterial-infection-predicament.310311/#post-3816129

If it was my fish, I'd put it into the RRR bath and then observe for awhile before dosing Kanaplex.

Here's Humblefish's acriflavine treatment advisory:
Acriflavine: This is an antiseptic that is very useful for rendering “first aid” if a fish has a bacterial infection or to treat an open wound. It can also be used as part of a “three step program” for treating Marine Velvet Disease: 5 minute freshwater dip, 75-90 minute acriflavine bath, and then prolonged exposure to copper or Chloroquine phosphate in a Quarantine Tank (QT).

There is also some anecdotal evidence that a 75-90 minute acriflavine bath, followed by transfer into a sterile Quarantine Tank can clear Brooklynella aka clownfish disease. However, until more research is done it is recommended to follow up the acriflavine bath by treating with metronidazole in the Quarantine Tank.

How To Treat – At present time there are two products on the market which contain acriflavine (dosage information below). Use either in a 75-90 minute bath, temperature controlling the water and providing plenty of aeration by using an air pump & air-stone. Ensure salinity, pH and temperature of bath & QT water match perfectly.

Acriflavine-MS: Add 1 teaspoon per 5 gallons of water.

Ruby Reef Rally: Add 1 ounce per 10 gallons of water. This breaks down to roughly 2/3 teaspoon of Rally per gallon if using less than 10 gallons.

Pros – Effective “pre-treatment” before fish is placed in QT with copper, antibiotics, etc.; milder/safer alternative to using formalin.

Cons/Side Effects – Turns the water an orange-brownish color, so probably not desirable for Quarantine or Display Tank use. Full range of positive effects and possible side effects are not completely understood at this time.

 

[Daniel400G]

Update on Achilles,

Freshwater dip 5 min. Same temp as QT tank with RO water.

RRR bath 1.5 hours. Same temp same Sal as QT tank, fresh ro water not QT water.

He's back in the qT tank now.

All lights off .

So far so good
He lasted the fw dip and RRR bath, I hope the stress doesn't kill him and he starts eating.

I really want to say thx for everyone that has been helping me through this. You guys are great!