Achilles Tang

[joe0813]

ive been doing a ton of research on them. I have a 180 with a Gem, purple and a tomini so im a little nervous taking a risk and adding a smaller Achilles to the mix and eventually have him beat up the gem. i do feed pretty heavy with frozen and a sheet of nori every day so hoping that would help with the aggression. Also everything has been QT'd so i know ich wouldnt be an issue

 

[vetteguy53081]

Looks like a beauty. Did you quarantine all the prior fish added to your tank along with the Achilles? Did you ever have ich in your system?

Quarantine? What’s that?
LOL. I leave fish st LFS And observe eating, breathing, skin health, how it gets along with others, then bring home and long acclimation, then FW bath followed by prazi bath and introduction into show tank

 

[DavidJTawil]

From what I’ve been feeding the purple and gem tang (zebrasoma) tend to be quite aggressive. If what your worried about is that the Achilles Will become established and beat up the gem then you probably have nothing to worry about. Being that the gem tang and purple tang (both the same genus) we’re added prior and have already established themselves, it would be quite difficult for the Achilles to over aggress and become the bully of the tank. One option, if your tank could sustain it, would be to add another tang from the acanthus genus to disperse some of the aggression of the Achilles. Keeping them well fed will also help tremendously with keeping the aggression down.

ive been doing a ton of research on them. I have a 180 with a Gem, purple and a tomini so im a little nervous taking a risk and adding a smaller Achilles to the mix and eventually have him beat up the gem. i do feed pretty heavy with frozen and a sheet of nori every day.

 

[DavidJTawil]

Risky but whatever works.

Quarantine? What’s that?
LOL. I leave fish st LFS And observe eating, breathing, skin health, how it gets along with others, then bring home and long acclimation, then FW bath followed by prazi bath and introduction into show tank

 

[joe0813]

From what I’ve been feeding the purple and gem tang (zebrasoma) tend to be quite aggressive. If what your worried about is that the Achilles Will become established and beat up the gem then you probably have nothing to worry about. Being that the gem tang and purple tang (both the same genus) we’re added prior and have already established themselves, it would be quite difficult for the Achilles to over aggress and become the bully of the tank. One option, if your tank could sustain it, would be to add another tang from the acanthus genus to disperse some of the aggression of the Achilles. Keeping them well fed will also help tremendously with keeping the aggression down.

wouldnt the two acanthus go at it pretty badly? The gem and purple are still on the smaller size too

 

[DavidJTawil]

If you were to add them at the same time I don’t think you’d have an issue.

wouldnt the two acanthus go at it pretty badly? The gem and purple are still on the smaller size too

 

[littlebigreef]

It’s a much about getting a well conditioned specimen as anything else. Achilles are naturally programmed to be grazers eating food over a long period of time. Many don’t acclimate to aquarium life because they’re initially shy eaters, easily bullied, and aren’t inclined to eat one or two meals a day during feeding time. This is why it’s important to get a specimen from a shop where it’s isolated and offered nori or cracked clams around the clock.

While I’m not anti-quarantine keeping an Achilles in anything less than a 55 gal is going to be detrimental to the fish’s health. They need live rock to pick on and good palaces to hide. Most QT setups I see are smaller bare bottom affairs. So, you’ve got to weight the good and the bad.

Now, you’re never going to rid your tank of ich. That’s a fact. However, having a stable mature aquarium and a good plan to combat out breaks is the next best thing. I introduced my Achilles directly into my DT after he was conditioned at my LFS for a week. Tank is a 220 with Fowleri and maculiceps tangs, a pair of Genicanthus angels, a comet and a bunch of odds and ends. After the first week he developed a mild case of ich. I immediately began running my UV sterilizer and continued feeding heavy. I also had a pack of kick-ich and reef rally on hand just in case. It persisted on the tang for two weeks (without spreading to anyone else) before finally dropping off. He’s now a fat happy Achilles.

 

[joe0813]

It’s a much about getting a well conditioned specimen as anything else. Achilles are naturally programmed to be grazers eating food over a long period of time. Many don’t acclimate to aquarium life because they’re initially shy eaters, easily bullied, and aren’t inclined to eat one or two meals a day during feeding time. This is why it’s important to get a specimen from a shop where it’s isolated and offered nori or cracked clams around the clock.

While I’m not anti-quarantine keeping an Achilles in anything less than a 55 gal is going to be detrimental to the fish’s health. They need live rock to pick on and good palaces to hide. Most QT setups I see are smaller bare bottom affairs. So, you’ve got to weight the good and the bad.

Now, you’re never going to rid your tank of ich. That’s a fact. However, having a stable mature aquarium and a good plan to combat out breaks is the next best thing. I introduced my Achilles directly into my DT after he was conditioned at my LFS for a week. Tank is a 220 with Fowleri and maculiceps tangs, a pair of Genicanthus angels, a comet and a bunch of odds and ends. After the first week he developed a mild case of ich. I immediately began running my UV sterilizer and continued feeding heavy. I also had a pack of kick-ich and reef rally on hand just in case. It persisted on the tang for two weeks (without spreading to anyone else) before finally dropping off. He’s now a fat happy Achilles.

disagree about ridding your tank of ich... proper qt on everything and you wont get ich.

 

[littlebigreef]

disagree about ridding your tank of ich... proper qt on everything and you wont get ich.

Agree to disagree then. No amount of QT is going to prevent a fish from developing ich in your display if it’s stressed for one reason or another.

 

[Xanthurum]

I’m an Achilles tang fanatic, I grew up in Hawaii and remember swimming with them as a kid. So when I inevitably got into keeping a salt tank guess what was at the top of the list? So there is a lot of planning that goes into keeping them. From he order at which you add fish to the QT process to give the fish you really want the best chances. I have had great success in keeping Achilles tangs and its all due to planning. Any losses were either my fault or out of my hands. They eat anything and everything once established but it can take some time to get them to that point. If you can find one that is eating at a store, buy it, even if it’s only eating nori. They are very strong in the personality dept. so be careful about adding any fish after they get established. I lost an Achilles after adding a Scott’s Fairy Wrasse, Mr. Achilles was not pleased and went full psycho chasing the wrasse until he knocked a pile of rocks over pinning himself under the debris during the night and he died. do not think for one second that their aggressions are only directed towards other tangs. My advice would be to add it last and make sure that all the other fish are happy and healthy and that the Achilles is as healthy as you can get when added, for me I was super strict and I know without a doubt that I do not have ich in my system so there was no chance the Achilles could get ich in the main tank. That does. It mean you have to do that but if you can QT the Achilles and ensure that the other fish are healthy you will be well ahead of the curve. Again I have devoted most of my salt keeping experience towards this particular fish but also tangs in general so feel free to ask any questions, this after all is a fairly cliff notes reply.

 

[joe0813]

Agree to disagree then. No amount of QT is going to prevent a fish from developing ich in your display if it’s stressed for one reason or another.

But its a parasite, it doesnt just randomly appear like a virus or a bacteria infection. But i agree with the agree to disagree thing... Back to achillies help, these fish graze and swim in tidal zones and Ive been reading that they should be in tanks around the 300+ mark to be successful.

 

[joe0813]

I’m an Achilles tang fanatic, I grew up in Hawaii and remember swimming with them as a kid. So when I inevitably got into keeping a salt tank guess what was at the top of the list? So there is a lot of planning that goes into keeping them. From he order at which you add fish to the QT process to give the fish you really want the best chances. I have had great success in keeping Achilles tangs and its all due to planning. Any losses were either my fault or out of my hands. They eat anything and everything once established but it can take some time to get them to that point. If you can find one that is eating at a store, buy it, even if it’s only eating nori. They are very strong in the personality dept. so be careful about adding any fish after they get established. I lost an Achilles after adding a Scott’s Fairy Wrasse, Mr. Achilles was not pleased and went full psycho chasing the wrasse until he knocked a pile of rocks over pinning himself under the debris during the night and he died. do not think for one second that their aggressions are only directed towards other tangs. My advice would be to add it last and make sure that all the other fish are happy and healthy and that the Achilles is as healthy as you can get when added, for me I was super strict and I know without a doubt that I do not have ich in my system so there was no chance the Achilles could get ich in the main tank. That does. It mean you have to do that but if you can QT the Achilles and ensure that the other fish are healthy you will be well ahead of the curve. Again I have devoted most of my salt keeping experience towards this particular fish but also tangs in general so feel free to ask any questions, this after all is a fairly cliff notes reply.

What do you think a good tank size would be to keep one long term. Long term meaning its entire life, i refuse to buy a fish i cant keep until it grows old and grey

 

[Xanthurum]

150 minimum depending on aquascape. Yes some people say a minimum of an 8 foot tank but Achilles make it very obvious when they are not happy so that kinda settles that. The signals of a stressed Achilles tang are super obvious and i have successfully kept an Achilles in a 125 for 5 years with no signs of stress. Clearly the larger the tank the better but I also feel that swim space plays a big role. So a sparsley aquascaped 150 will do. They love to swim so limit the live rock.

As for the ich being impossible to prevent I strongly disagree. When I added my current Achilles to the tank my Powder Blue/ Goldrim hybrid was not pleased. The 2 fought to the point that the Achilles was nearly killed. I divided the tank and after over a month the divider was removed and again the Achilles was nearly killed. The divider went back in and was removed and re installed a few times over a 5 month period. That was 3 years ago and both now tolerate each other, at no point during the extremely stressful and nearly deadly brawls between the 2 dominant tangs did either develope ich, nor did any other tank inhabitants. Therefore it’s obvious that ich is not in my tank because an Acanthurus tang or any tang for that matter would easily have shown visible signs of ich due to the amount of stress.

 

[joe0813]

150 minimum depending on aquascape. Yes some people say a minimum of an 8 foot tank but Achilles make it very obvious when they are not happy so that kinda settles that. The signals of a stressed Achilles tang are super obvious and i have successfully kept an Achilles in a 125 for 5 years with no signs of stress. Clearly the larger the tank the better but I also feel that swim space plays a big role. So a sparsley aquascaped 150 will do. They love to swim so limit the live rock.

As for the ich being impossible to prevent I strongly disagree. When I added my current Achilles to the tank my Powder Blue/ Goldrim hybrid was not pleased. The 2 fought to the point that the Achilles was nearly killed. I divided the tank and after over a month the divider was removed and again the Achilles was nearly killed. The divider went back in and was removed and re installed a few times over a 5 month period. That was 3 years ago and both now tolerate each other, at no point during the extremely stressful and nearly deadly brawls between the 2 dominant tangs did either develope ich, nor did any other tank inhabitants. Therefore it’s obvious that ich is not in my tank because an Acanthurus tang or any tang for that matter would easily have shown visible signs of ich due to the amount of stress.

What would the signs be if hes not very pleased with my tank?

 

[Xanthurum]

Constant pacing and extreme aggression

 

[joe0813]

Constant pacing and extreme aggression

awesome thank you.

 

[monstdog]

I think my best bet is to allow the tang to establish for a bit longer. Additionally, prior to adding the Achilles, I’ll leave a gap of a few months where no other fish has been added to the tank to ensure that if there is any ich in the tank, the parasites population will be low.

On another note I’ve been reading a lot about how having more tangs in a tank disperses the aggression and is a better platform for success than having just 2. Does anybody have any experience with such?

I believe that is true in my experience. I have 5 tangs in my 225 gal. I keep them well fed with Nori and never see them fight. They are various sizes too but my Purple is the biggest and the Hippo the smallest. I even did the not recommend 2 Acanthurus and 2 Zebrasoma. I think space and food is key. The other key was introducing them all at once. No one could establish territory. My power brown killed two fish in my first tank so when i upgraded i made sure to move them all in at once and everyone is super happy. I do believe if I added another fish it would get killed. I just know the limits of my tank and fish choices.

 

[maroun.c]

Always dreamt of having one as they were relatively hard to get here and quite more expensive than in US . I tried 4 over the last 10 years and eventhough they made it well through QT (only one lost to severe fluke infection in QT ) all others ate well in QT and only one came in with white spot which was treated in QT successfully. They all died within 10-15 days in my tank although eating and with 0.aggression from my tangs or fish. O e did well in an introduction tank for 6 months and was still lost 12 days after I added to my tank. I even added one that came in from a friends tank and which he had for 4 years and was lost in less than 20 days.
I made sure to feed my fish and add vitamins to their food to boost their immunity. Added 3 large UVs to minimize any disease load in my tank. All my fish never showed spits eccept a few spots on my hippo very rarely before still achiles would get white spots and die. So this last one was QTd then moved to an intro tank and had water changes from my tank for weeks. I made sure to over feed it and soak food in vitamins. It ate perfect and picked up weight. It still got a mild case of ich after intro but it did well despite ich. It stopped eating frozen and pellets upon intro and only ate nori which I soaked in vitamins to increase content... couple months later it suddenly went back to eating everything. I've had it for more than a year and it's still doing great.
Amazing fish and very happy to have.

 

[DavidJTawil]

Would it have helped if you introduced them at the same time. Also did you quarantine all your previous fish.

150 minimum depending on aquascape. Yes some people say a minimum of an 8 foot tank but Achilles make it very obvious when they are not happy so that kinda settles that. The signals of a stressed Achilles tang are super obvious and i have successfully kept an Achilles in a 125 for 5 years with no signs of stress. Clearly the larger the tank the better but I also feel that swim space plays a big role. So a sparsley aquascaped 150 will do. They love to swim so limit the live rock.

As for the ich being impossible to prevent I strongly disagree. When I added my current Achilles to the tank my Powder Blue/ Goldrim hybrid was not pleased. The 2 fought to the point that the Achilles was nearly killed. I divided the tank and after over a month the divider was removed and again the Achilles was nearly killed. The divider went back in and was removed and re installed a few times over a 5 month period. That was 3 years ago and both now tolerate each other, at no point during the extremely stressful and nearly deadly brawls between the 2 dominant tangs did either develope ich, nor did any other tank inhabitants. Therefore it’s obvious that ich is not in my tank because an Acanthurus tang or any tang for that matter would easily have shown visible signs of ich due to the amount of stress.

If you were to add them at the same time I don’t think you’d have an issue.

 

[Xanthurum]

They were added at the same time but we are talking about 2 very notoriously territorial fish. Also yes all previous fish were quarantine, that doesn’t mean that it has to be that way to keep an Achilles.