Acro tip burn and fading

[jschultzbass]

I have a Waterbox 170.4/5 that I set up last July. Total free water volume of 130 gallons. I used fresh sand and water but transferred over my live rock from existing old setup. I had a couple Acros that were doing ok in the old tank and transferred those over as well. Everything started to flourish and I ordered a couple packs from Battlecorals with everything doing very well. Have about 20 acro frags to mini colonies in the tank. About a month ago I lost a small colony. I was bummed but know it happens. Everything else was doing ok. Well the last 3 weeks more corals have started to burn at the tips. I checked my water parameters and they are as follows:
Alk: 9.0 (Hanna and Salifert)
Calcium: 420 (Salifert)
Mag: 1350 (Salifert)
Nitrate: 5 (Nyos)
Phosphate: 0.03 (Hanna)
pH: ranging from 7.8 - 8.1 night to day
I did a big water change of about 35% a week ago and lowered my Alk to 8.0 thinking maybe higher alk could burn the tips and things started to look up but now they are taking a dive again. about 25% of the acros are burning at the tips and not looking good. A few are good size mini colonies grown from little frags. It seems to just come all of a sudden. I did add a CO2 reactor to my skimmer air inlet which has raised my pH to 8.1 - 8.3 night to day a couple weeks ago thinking this might help but still having issues.
More info on the tank:
Two Gyre 250s for flow
Reef Octopus Varios-6 return pump
Vertex Omega 180 skimmer
Spyglass carbon reactor with ROX carbon (only use about a cup a month based on BRS recommendation on my tank size)
Two 7" 200 micron filter socks
Orphek V4s for lighting
GHL 2.1 doser to dose Alk and Cal
Only other thing I add is the KZ Coral System package of amino acids

Everything was doing so well and then all of a sudden they are dying with no changes made to the system. Only thing added since this started happening is the CO2 scrubber. Please help me with ideas on how to combat this. Thank you.

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

What’s your potassium? High potassium can cause burnt tips. I’ve heard that rox is pretty harsh as well. Maybe turn off the carbon reactor and reduce the skimmer for 12 hours. Do you know the par from the orpheks?

 

[happyhourhero]

I have better success when I don’t run carbon. It could be a lot of things and I feel like you are looking in the right places with the alk. I try and keep mine below 8 now.

 

[dansreef]

When did you start up your carbon reactor? Why did you? What the carbon will do, in addition to removing impurities... is clarify your water...allowing more light to your corals. If it was done too quickly could explain some burned tips. I had also read where higher alk with carbon could also cause burning of tips...

I have not tried the CO2 reactor... with spring on us soon...the windows will be open more... and should not be as big of an issue than in the dead of winter when everything is shut up tight... If you saw changes after that went online, you might take it offline and see how things progress.

stability is king....as I am sure you know. Make small adjustments...and try not to do too many things... as this can throw things off a bit and the SPS will get ticked.

 

[jschultzbass]

What’s your potassium? High potassium can cause burnt tips. I’ve heard that rox is pretty harsh as well. Maybe turn off the carbon reactor and reduce the skimmer for 12 hours. Do you know the par from the orpheks?

I don't know potassium but will order a kit right away. I'll turn off the carbon and turn off the skimmer during the day and see if that helps. I don't know the par of the Orpheks but they are hanging 16" above water and max of 80% with heavy clouds (Orphek recommendation). They've been this way for over 6 months so I don't think they would be the issue.

 

[jschultzbass]

When did you start up your carbon reactor? Why did you? What the carbon will do, in addition to removing impurities... is clarify your water...allowing more light to your corals. If it was done too quickly could explain some burned tips. I had also read where higher alk with carbon could also cause burning of tips...

I have not tried the CO2 reactor... with spring on us soon...the windows will be open more... and should not be as big of an issue than in the dead of winter when everything is shut up tight... If you saw changes after that went online, you might take it offline and see how things progress.

stability is king....as I am sure you know. Make small adjustments...and try not to do too many things... as this can throw things off a bit and the SPS will get ******.

I've been using the carbon reactor for a while but switched to ROX about 2.5 months ago. I use it just to keep water clear and take out any impurities that might make their way to the tank.

I'll try carbon off and skimmer off for 12 hours a day first and then CO2 scrubber....

 

[dansreef]

I think I would leave the skimmer on.... Your nutrient levels are fine.... Leave the skimmer. I would

take the carbon offline and then perhaps the CO2 scrubber... ​

 

[markalot]

Keep in mind that acros can show visible damage weeks after the incident happened. You say Alk is now 9, but you lowered it to 8 with water changes. That's enough to do it if things are not stable and Acros are not in top health. Lowering Alk is one thing, but 8 to 9 can to a lot of damage. In my experience, 6 to 7 raised quickly does almost nothing, 7 to 8 shows stress, 8 to 9 shows damage. In my opinion 8 is better than 9, and 7 is best yet, but it's up to you what to run at, just make sure it stays rock solid steady, especially since your acros are now suffering.

CO2 scrubber should not be causing any issues other than raising PH, which is not the issue in this case. In my opinion.

 

[hatfielj]

Can you post a pic of what you mean by "burnt tips" I've noticed that people have different definitions of what this actually means and sometimes they are vastly different processes. Just to make sure we're all talking about the same thing...

 

[jschultzbass]

Few pictures below. First is a red dragon, second is a BC Awarewolf, PC Rainbow, Little frag of Homewrecker not looking good, No name that's almost gone, then a shot of a BC Hyperberry that doesn't seem to be affected at all.

 

[jschultzbass]

Keep in mind that acros can show visible damage weeks after the incident happened. You say Alk is now 9, but you lowered it to 8 with water changes. That's enough to do it if things are not stable and Acros are not in top health. Lowering Alk is one thing, but 8 to 9 can to a lot of damage. In my experience, 6 to 7 raised quickly does almost nothing, 7 to 8 shows stress, 8 to 9 shows damage. In my opinion 8 is better than 9, and 7 is best yet, but it's up to you what to run at, just make sure it stays rock solid steady, especially since your acros are now suffering.

CO2 scrubber should not be causing any issues other than raising PH, which is not the issue in this case. In my opinion.

Sorry for the Confusion, Alk is 8.0 now. I lowered it a week ago from 9.0 to 8.0 over the course of a couple days by lowering my carbonate dosing. It is now solid at 8.0. After I lowered it I did a water change and my salt mixture was at 8.2

 

[SeaDweller]

How new are your test kits?

 

[Foothill Corals]

Have someone verify your Alk, Nitrate and Phos levels.

Check all your pumps for a bad magnet.

Get an ICP test

Seeing that you saw an improvement after the water change I suspect that there is a contaminant in there.

 

[jschultzbass]

How new are your test kits?

Have someone verify your Alk, Nitrate and Phos levels.

Check all your pumps for a bad magnet.

Get an ICP test

Seeing that you saw an improvement after the water change I suspect that there is a contaminant in there.

None of them are expired but none are"new" except the hanna Alk. I have two Hanna Alks and the salifert all reading the same. I ordered another, different brand, nitrate and phosphate to double check those. I also ordered two different ICP tests, should have them tomorrow and will send out as soon as I get them.
Will also take out and clean my skimmer pump and return pump and check anything else for bad magnets. Will do another water change on Wednesday. Thanks for the advice guys, keep it coming please!

 

[hatfielj]

Few pictures below. First is a red dragon, second is a BC Awarewolf, PC Rainbow, Little frag of Homewrecker not looking good, No name that's almost gone, then a shot of a BC Hyperberry that doesn't seem to be affected at all.

Thanks for the pics. This is exactly the problem I've been having with my tank lately. Have you noticed that the tips first show signs of distress by extending their "guts" I can always tell when it's going to start happening because they leave their guts hanging out of the tips and it's like they end up digesting themselves down to the skeleton. The process seems to happen at random for me. Recent ICP analysis didn't show anything. I have searched for pests in the past and never found anything obvious. Perhaps there's something microscopic, but my tiny microscope can't see anything.

I just have a hard time believing it's due to alkalinity. My alk has not gone out of the 8 or 9 range that I'm aware of. I actually suspect it could be something else like an unknown pest or virus. Who knows

 

[Hemmdog]

Thanks for the pics. This is exactly the problem I've been having with my tank lately. Have you noticed that the tips first show signs of distress by extending their "guts" I can always tell when it's going to start happening because they leave their guts hanging out of the tips and it's like they end up digesting themselves down to the skeleton. The process seems to happen at random for me. Recent ICP analysis didn't show anything. I have searched for pests in the past and never found anything obvious. Perhaps there's something microscopic, but my tiny microscope can't see anything.

I just have a hard time believing it's due to alkalinity. My alk has not gone out of the 8 or 9 range that I'm aware of. I actually suspect it could be something else like an unknown pest or virus. Who knows

That’s normal, it’s when food is in the water. Mine do it daily.

 

[JPergamo]

I feel like over-doing it with the ROx carbon alongside nutrients at the lower end could be a definite cause. I usually throw a filter bag with a small amount of rox in once in a blue moon just to clear the water a tad, but I remove it pretty fast like after a few days. When I used to use a reactor with gfo and rox I killed frag after frag stripping the water too much. Had to learn the hard way like I usually do. Good luck.

 

[SeaDweller]

I feel like over-doing it with the ROx carbon alongside nutrients at the lower end could be a definite cause. I usually throw a filter bag with a small amount of rox in once in a blue moon just to clear the water a tad, but I remove it pretty fast like after a few days. When I used to use a reactor with gfo and rox I killed frag after frag stripping the water too much. Had to learn the hard way like I usually do. Good luck.

Yeah I only run carbon for a few days max now too.

 

[markalot]

Sorry for the Confusion, Alk is 8.0 now. I lowered it a week ago from 9.0 to 8.0 over the course of a couple days by lowering my carbonate dosing. It is now solid at 8.0. After I lowered it I did a water change and my salt mixture was at 8.2

You lowered both dosers, right? 2 part is balanced. Just double checking.

Damage appears to be either a rapid Alk rise or a rapid PO4 drop, which can do as much damage as an Alk rise. My experience is one of testing testing and killing killing. Only when I forced myself to back off and do everything slowly, goofy slow, did things improve. Every little change you make adds stress to an Acro. It will vary coral to coral, acro to acro. Some acros have been in the hobby for years and are resistant to change, some like the expensive named varieties might be fairly new and sensitive to change. If you change Alk, and change nutrients and change, say, lighting all within a short period of time you're asking for trouble. Unfortunately I can't say for sure if my advice is any better than any other advice, only that the less I change things better success I have.

Let me explain this another way.

There are experienced acro keepers out there who have super healthy acros and have an accidental Alk spike and lose nothing. Why? Initial health of the corals possibly combined with only keeping rugged tank adapted acros.

Based on this my advice is to do very little other than making sure params are ok and let it ride. I don't like running rox carbon, I don't like filter socks. You're taking the goodies out of the water. goodies = highly scientific term. The tank is still on the newer side and stripping nutrients is never a good idea. I would probably get rid of these and let the tank dirty up to give what you have a chance. Once they are healthy again, in 6 months or so, you can slowly experiment with reducing nutrients to bring out any missing colors. You may discover, as many of us have, that many do better in 'dirty' water.

 

[Smarkow]

What’s your potassium? High potassium can cause burnt tips. I’ve heard that rox is pretty harsh as well. Maybe turn off the carbon reactor and reduce the skimmer for 12 hours. Do you know the par from the orpheks?

Think that PAR measurement in new tank would be the critical change here, since it is implied water chemistry and flow are good.

The notion that a slow change over weeks by one point dkh, all the while staying within the 7-9 range, will cause burnt tips seems... improbable? Now if you are driving a Ferrari at the extremes of Alk in the 12-13 range and it swings up another point... then maybe.

ICP test seems like a good idea, new tank could have a little nut/screw/gasket dropped into sump slowly leaching a heavy metal like tin (happened to me) and you will feel better knowing it. Don't waste your cash on a K+ test you will use once, put that money to an ICP test that will tell you K+ anyways.

Unless you are running ULM, my understanding of expert opinion is that K+ is unlikely to be consumed significantly, since added food decaying will release plenty of K+ into the water to replete tissue growth.

Good luck