Acrylic or glass sump

[mfinn]

Look great. Abyzz pumps - cant beat that. I will either be running two Red Dragon 5 Eco or two Vectra L2. What ya think?
Another side question. Tank will be on first floor above the basement sump. Contractors are going to cut an opening in the floor the same size as an a/c grate. If/when I move remove the pipes and insert the grill. Now the question should I run rigid or flex pvc.

I have used both, the Vectras and Red Dragons.
I'm currently using RD3's. My 150 watt ( closed loop) is almost 10 years old.
My 100 watt is about 5 years old.
I had a 80 watt that had a controller issue.
I was given the option to repair the 80 or get a substantial discount to upgrade to the 100 watt.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I have used both, the Vectras and Red Dragons.
I'm currently using RD3's. My 150 watt ( closed loop) is almost 10 years old.
My 100 watt is about 5 years old.
I had a 80 watt that had a controller issue.
I was given the option to repair the 80 or get a substantial discount to upgrade to the 100 watt.

I wouldn’t put vectras anywhere near the same class as an RD3, regardless of flow or head rating. The vectras are toys, as are most DC pumps. They can’t do anywhere near their rated outputs.

Not sure about eco 5 pressure rated, but assume they are also nowhere near the rd3

 

[C_AWOL]

I wouldn’t put vectras anywhere near the same class as an RD3, regardless of flow or head rating. The vectras are toys, as are most DC pumps. They can’t do anywhere near their rated outputs.

Not sure about eco 5 pressure rated, but assume they are also nowhere near the rd3

I own all 3 and the rd5 is still definitely superior when compared to the vectra but the (sadly discontinued) 3 series to this date have been by far the best I've ever owned.

 

[danreef55]

Red Dragon it is!!!!!!!!!
Thanks folks

 

[mfinn]

I wouldn’t put vectras anywhere near the same class as an RD3, regardless of flow or head rating. The vectras are toys, as are most DC pumps. They can’t do anywhere near their rated outputs.

Not sure about eco 5 pressure rated, but assume they are also nowhere near the rd3

I just commented on the RD3's that I use, because the OP said Vectras were on his list.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I own all 3 and the rd5 is still definitely superior when compared to the vectra but the (sadly discontinued) 3 series to this date have been by far the best I've ever owned.

The RD3 100 is still being produced but back orders the moment they have stock. It is not pressure rated.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I just commented on the RD3's that I use, because the OP said Vectras were on his list.

Yep was just adding some context for others.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Red Dragon it is!!!!!!!!!
Thanks folks

I would give the iwakis a look too (if soft start or speed control is not a need)

 

[danreef55]

Thanks BA I know they are great pumps. Never had a bad word to say about them. I will check the flow charts

 

[BZOFIQ]

DC pumps to do the job (with no real benefit other than soft start) will cost exponentially more.

NO real benefit? I guess you never heard a DC pump - me neither; pun intended.

 

[OrionN]

C_AWOL thanks for the input. I will have internal protein skimmer and calcium reactor. How would I suspend these so that they are at the proper functioning height which is approx 8"?

I just cut large PVC pipe to make a platform. Three legs use zip tie to an Acrylic top. Small two holes on the top end of the pipe and two small holes on the platform to loop the zip tie through for each strand of the zip tie. Cut the PVC to what ever level you need.

 

[BeanAnimal]

NO real benefit? I guess you never heard a DC pump - me neither; pun intended.

Hi -

Context in a conversation is everything.

Context here:
Basement sump.
High head pressure.

Sound is less of an issue (basement) and very few DC pumps have the ability to work in this high head situation. So soft start and variable speed are the only real benefits in this context.

There are drawbacks too. The need to clean more often. Far higher failure rates and heat imparted to the water compared to AC pumps, especially those with shaft/volute wet ends.

FWIW - I was one of the people who quietly (no pun) spent a year testing DC pumps before they were introduced into this hobby. They were kinda of garbage and the "typical" DC aquarium pump product being rebadged 6 ways from Sunday has changed very little. They are not strong pumps and the electronics and in many cases power supplies are garbage. There are exceptions.

As for my current use. I have three Red Dragon 3 pumps and several RO Varios pump. One of the Varios just died two days ago. Spins freely but electronics crapped out. I have a few other brands laying around. They are all (frankly) garbage. Exceptions bing RD3, and a few others.

 

[ca1ore]

Few thoughts:

1. Never have bought a commercial sump. OK, not strictly true as I had a Dupla wet/dry bought in 1988, but nothing since then. I like to make my own sump and have always used a glass tank to start. Current sump is a repurposed Oceanic 150.

2. With a basement sump and facing 12 feet of total back pressure (head plus friction), pressure-rated AC pumps have been my long-term choice. Iwaki 40 remains my all-time longevity champ (22 years of continuous service), PanWorld has been my choice for the last 12 years.

3. I am a big fan of FlexPVC and have used it almost exclusively in my last two big tank builds. Since my display is not directly over the basement sump, flex is the best choice for me. I also could not care less about the color of my plumbing LOL.

 

[danreef55]

Thanks for all the feedback. I have used Iwaki Japanese models in the past on commercial systems with very little head pressure and they worked flawlessly for years. Being out of the hobby for many years leaves me at a distinct disadvantage. Given a display tank with approximately 240 gallons should I be looking at two Iwaki 100RLT?

 

[BeanAnimal]

Thanks for all the feedback. I have used Iwaki Japanese models in the past on commercial systems with very little head pressure and they worked flawlessly for years. Being out of the hobby for many years leaves me at a distinct disadvantage. Given a display tank with approximately 240 gallons should I be looking at two Iwaki 100RLT?

It really depends on how much water you want to push through they system.

When i designed my system 20 years ago, flow was through the return and a closed loop. I remove the loop (too much trouble) and increased the return pump size. Wave makers back then sucked.

I would try to go as small as reasonable with (2) return pumps (redundancy) or at least buy two (one for the shelf) and utilize low voltage in-tank flow (MP-40, Nero, whatever).

So enough for a few x turnover. Keep the skimmer, mechanical filters and heater operational. No reason to wear the water out running it in a circle if there are better options for in-tank flow.

Getting 10x may be overkill... opinions will greatly vary. But maybe start with 5x and see how things go. You can always upsize or add by splitting the return near the sump to two pumps instead of the one driving two (or more) returns.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I would add - if you go with DC pumps, I would oversize them significantly and dial them back to what you need. They appear to last much longer running at partial output. I assume that even though it is not BEP for the volute/motor combo, it allows the internal electronics to remain much cooler, as will as the driver circuit in the controller.

 

[danreef55]

Thanks Bean Animal. Based upon feedback I will probably go with what I know and that is Iwaki. I was led down a DC pump path by all the threads that tout DC pumps and all the advertising. I have to make a decision fairly soon. I am also considering two Gyre XF350 for internal flow. What do you folks think about them. I am starting to question everything I initially planned. The tank will be SPS dominant.

Signed dazed and confused:)

 

[BeanAnimal]

I have no first hand experience with gyre pumps. I got a few used MP-10s several months ago and do like them, as much as I dislike ecotech products and loathe the Mobius application.

 

[ca1ore]

I’ve long tried to minimize the electric draw from my tank. Have largely settled on 3-4x tank volume per hour through the sump. In tank flow is far better achieved with circulation pumps like vortech.

 

[Delatedlotus]

Pumps... Pumps... Someone mention pumps..

There is ONLY one pump to both buy and use. I bought a **Japanese Iwaki 100r** 26 years ago it pumped right at 1900 plus.. gallons an hour 135 plus gallons per min. !. I run 265 gallons total on my system. 2 tanks a 90 and a 110 and a 100 gallon sump of sorts a 100 gallon horse trough lol. Heavy duty pumps these are and with a huge head height. And then also teed off so it also runs my very, very, controllable 5ft skimmer. It finally did go bad on me right at 13 months ago now. I bought another one from BRS ( I shopped very extensively both new and USED 1st ) for $478 dollars free freight. I would will never use ANY OTHER BRAND PUMP, PERIOD EVER ..!

I figured this at 23 years - Bought mine "USED" yes "USED" actually 26 years ago! Running NONE stop! Fact!

Figured at just a mirror 23 years! It's truthfully ALOT more!!! It lasted well over 23 years! 365 days a year, 24-7, for 23 years. That breaks down like this.. 24 hours a day, 7 days a week = 168 hours a week, 168 hours x 365 days a year = 61,320 hours in a year, 61,320 hours x 23 years = 1,410,360 TOTAL HOURS THIS IWAKI PUMP HAS RUN NON - STOP...

NOW you tell me is there a better pump out here..? Really you tell me... no other pump will last this long ever! Plastic, rattling, D/C junk IMO... I want to move water and lots of it for years and years...

They have never changed anything on these pumps at all. I did talk to the factory direct no changes on them ever. Take this to the bank... I did get the dark gray replacement pump exactly like "I" had before, again bought the new one from BRS aquarium $478 ** Get the Japanese pump only that's the good one... I took the old one into my local electric motor repair and found out $5.98 for a new bearing ( on the internet ) plus then labor and they can fix my old one. Estimate of $75! The factory told me they will NEVER wear out ever..! Except the bearing but then they also never told me about rebearing it as well. lol