Advice wanted - 5 years with unsatisfactory.

[JohnnyTabasco]

I know this is an old phrase but I think I have tried everything and I looking for some feedback.

My 5-6 year old nano have never been able to produce the result I'm striving for.
My problem is basically that my corals are not growing. I have SPS that survive but are super slow growing and there are no such thing as color. They are pale and I often get STN.
My other corals basically the same. Slow growing with dull color.

My system is pretty basic.
25g of water.
Hydra 26hd (~200-250 par at the sps, AB+)
Curve a5 DC skimmer (running at night)
Filter floss.
Dosing 5 ml of AF 1,2,3
Some Bio media .

Here are my parameters.
Alk 7.6 (stable - using hanna )
Ca 420
Mg 1400

Nitrate at 0-0.2 ( I'm guessing this is the problem, but I will come back to this)
Po4 0.02

Temp 25.5

I went bare bottom 4 years ago, ever since then I have had very low nutrient.
I think my corals are starving, therefore I tried dosing coral foods - both liquid like AA and other KZ products but also reef roids.

I also tried adding more fish to increase the bio load, but I still have close to zero nitrate.

For water changes I don't do much. I mostly see negative effects from WC's. Maybe from removing what little nutrients that are available?

I have been reluctant to try nitrate dosing because I also have algae growth - though at a accelerate rate.
But now I order some NaNo3 to see if that might do the trick.

So I'm interested in hearing if anyone can spot some potential issues and maybe some advice/critique on trying nitrate dosing?

 

[rockskimmerflow]

I know this is an old phrase but I think I have tried everything and I looking for some feedback.

My 5-6 year old nano have never been able to produce the result I'm striving for.
My problem is basically that my corals are not growing. I have SPS that survive but are super slow growing and there are no such thing as color. They are pale and I often get STN.
My other corals basically the same. Slow growing with dull color.

My system is pretty basic.
25g of water.
Hydra 26hd (~200-250 par at the sps, AB+)
Curve a5 DC skimmer (running at night)
Filter floss.
Dosing 5 ml of AF 1,2,3
Some Bio media .

Here are my parameters.
Alk 7.6 (stable - using hanna )
Ca 420
Mg 1400

Nitrate at 0-0.2 ( I'm guessing this is the problem, but I will come back to this)
Po4 0.02

Temp 25.5

I went bare bottom 4 years ago, ever since then I have had very low nutrient.
I think my corals are starving, therefore I tried dosing coral foods - both liquid like AA and other KZ products but also reef roids.

I also tried adding more fish to increase the bio load, but I still have close to zero nitrate.

For water changes I don't do much. I mostly see negative effects from WC's. Maybe from removing what little nutrients that are available?

I have been reluctant to try nitrate dosing because I also have algae growth - though at a accelerate rate.
But now I order some NaNo3 to see if that might do the trick.

So I'm interested in hearing if anyone can spot some potential issues and maybe some advice/critique on trying nitrate dosing?

That's a lot of detailed info. Sorry to hear you haven't achieved the results you've been after. When I see general malaise in a new customer tank that's as small as yours I just do 2 or 3 successive 50 percent water changes with quality synthetic saltwater. Nitrate dosing or specific nutrient manipulation I would reserve for larger tanks personally that would be more difficult to feed enough or change enough water to correct some underlying chemistry issue.

A reset like that won't matter if it 'strips nutrient' since as you note you're already running super low nutrient. I'd use some manual removal on any green hair/macroalgaes then bolster your cleanup crew accordingly if needed. You can ramp up the feeding of your fish or coral more too if you think you have too little nutrient. Test the water weekly and see if you get nitrate or phosphate to rise. If you don't move the numbers up from near zero... feed more until you do I'd try and eliminate other variables as well. Like run the skimmer full time and use a consistent setting on the LED - not that you've been messing with it- just if you had the urge to play with the settings avoid that and leave things stable for a couple months.

Test your Alk, Ca, Mg, Phos, NO3, and Sg weekly if possible and do not begin supplementing A,B,C components until the testing indicates you need to replace elements that have been sequestered by the organisms you're keeping.

Best of luck!

 

[BeejReef]

How is your flow?

 

[ajhudson15]

Also a small tank with no sand can make it hard for bacteria to populate. make sure you have enough rock and maybe put some media somewhere for them to populate as well if you don't have any already

 

[JohnnyTabasco]

How is your flow?

The flow is sufficient.

 

[Anirban]

Can you post few pictures please?

 

[JohnnyTabasco]

Can you post few pictures please?

Yeah. I don't think it paints the picture. They definitely look more vibrant on pictures.
Maybe the red digi with the STN is the most descriptive...

On a side note, the sarco has been closed like that for a year.

 

[pickupman66]

I think you are low on light and nutrients personally. that was my immediate thought. I would get your nitrates up (just kill the skimmer for a week). then slowly increase the par at your sps to 350 or so. I have a Pair of the same light and they are wonderful. I run mine at about 350-400 at the SPS levels. i would also prefer my alk to be a bit closer to 8 or 8.5.

you may also want to start feeding a coral food like reef chili or something of the sorts. that may help your situation. remember, with that small box of water, you can go too far quickly. as stated above, i would not dose any nutrients.

You posted those photos as I was replying. AB+ is so basic. I was not a fan of it. I have swapped to a Saxby version and really like the color mix.

 

[Dr. Dendrostein]

I know this is an old phrase but I think I have tried everything and I looking for some feedback.

My 5-6 year old nano have never been able to produce the result I'm striving for.
My problem is basically that my corals are not growing. I have SPS that survive but are super slow growing and there are no such thing as color. They are pale and I often get STN.
My other corals basically the same. Slow growing with dull color.

My system is pretty basic.
25g of water.
Hydra 26hd (~200-250 par at the sps, AB+)
Curve a5 DC skimmer (running at night)
Filter floss.
Dosing 5 ml of AF 1,2,3
Some Bio media .

Here are my parameters.
Alk 7.6 (stable - using hanna )
Ca 420
Mg 1400

Nitrate at 0-0.2 ( I'm guessing this is the problem, but I will come back to this)
Po4 0.02

Temp 25.5

I went bare bottom 4 years ago, ever since then I have had very low nutrient.
I think my corals are starving, therefore I tried dosing coral foods - both liquid like AA and other KZ products but also reef roids.

I also tried adding more fish to increase the bio load, but I still have close to zero nitrate.

For water changes I don't do much. I mostly see negative effects from WC's. Maybe from removing what little nutrients that are available?

I have been reluctant to try nitrate dosing because I also have algae growth - though at a accelerate rate.
But now I order some NaNo3 to see if that might do the trick.

So I'm interested in hearing if anyone can spot some potential issues and maybe some advice/critique on trying nitrate dosing?

Feed your corals something like or similar to Reef roids and with time you figure out how much to feed to bump up your nitrates and whatever else

 

[dantimdad]

I am thinking it's low nutrients.

Light is fine really if you ask me but, you could slowly increase the intensity.

 

[ajhudson15]

could also be the leathers and soft corals if you don't have enough carbon in their. I have read in some posts that the softies and leathers release more toxins and can cause issues like this if there is not sufficient carbon taking it out.

 

[brandon429]

Johnny you should approach your issue in a different way than most reef threads in my opinion regarding tune ups on that nano due to its potential. every thread is really good mixes of suggestions from posters who used the methods in one way or another or have seen them work, but we never see one poster literally having the say over the process for a given time vs a guessing mix

its always, always, always a mix of guesses to see what sticks, if any, then hardly any long term updates. that's every rescue thread

but to be different, take one coach and give them literally a 4 month time frame to work, document one single approach all customized to those pics you show above. Now that's unique, that's accountability as well.

 

[Austin Prosser]

Might be an anecdotal example but the leather corals I used to have a bunch of and even with brs rox carbon my sps were never growing any noticeable amount. My parameters, lighting, and flow were always stable when I upgraded tanks I got rid of the leathers and got more growth in 3 months by far than what I had in the last 9 months.
- The thing I would consider is that in a nano the leathers have much more influence for stunting growth of sps and the larger leathers you have could be why you haven’t had very good growth in five years.

 

[JohnnyTabasco]

Thanks for all the suggestions!
I really appreciate it!

Many of the suggestions are theories that I already have spend time on - not saying that they might be true.
I also leaning towards it's a nutrient thing. I have tried for the last 6 month not to touch anything and focus on feeding.
I dose on a weekly basis AA, coral vitalizer, sponge power, Accro glow and a mix of phyto and reef rodis.
Daily I feed 1/5 cube of mysis
But my nitrate is still at: 0,0-0,02
And Po4 at: 0,01


So my plan right now is to try to dose NaNo3.
My stock is made of
300ml RO
50g NaNo3

That should give me roughly 1ppm / 1ml in 100L of tank water.

I'm gonna start out with dosing 1ml
And then 5 drops of 0,1ml a week giving me 0,5 ppm added a week.

I know my po4 is also low, and I will address that with a little more food and AA.

Here is what I'm looking for:
Alk consumption going up
Colors deepening - I'm especially looking at the red digi and a green accro and
Algae growth in general

I'm giving it 4 weeks, so with me luck. Here are some photos from this morning. (Yes, I cut the bad part of the sarco of, so that will not be included in my evaluation )

 

[JohnnyTabasco]

Might be an anecdotal example but the leather corals I used to have a bunch of and even with brs rox carbon my sps were never growing any noticeable amount. My parameters, lighting, and flow were always stable when I upgraded tanks I got rid of the leathers and got more growth in 3 months by far than what I had in the last 9 months.
- The thing I would consider is that in a nano the leathers have much more influence for stunting growth of sps and the larger leathers you have could be why you haven’t had very good growth in five years.

Could differently be a thing! I would love a bigger tank - some day <3

 

[reefwiser]

With only 25 gallons the stability issue is perhaps the biggest issue. If one increases feeding one changes the bioload on the tank very fast in such a small water volume. That makes it hard to over come.

 

[JohnnyTabasco]

With only 25 gallons the stability issue is perhaps the biggest issue. If one increases feeding one changes the bioload on the tank very fast in such a small water volume. That makes it hard to over come.

Yeah, but I'm pretty sure stability is not the issue. But yes you need to be on top of testing.

 

[BeejReef]

Sounds like a fantastic plan. One month of controlling one variable. You may or may not solve your issue, but you'll be a step closer, no matter what.

 

[Oldreefer44]

Haven't seen any mention of PH. Can be an issue especially in the winter when high levels of CO2 can build up indoors. Have same issue as yours with slow growing corals. Once I addressed borderline low PH the growth rate improved considerably.

 

[JohnnyTabasco]

Haven't seen any mention of PH. Can be an issue especially in the winter when high levels of CO2 can build up indoors. Have same issue as yours with slow growing corals. Once I addressed borderline low PH the growth rate improved considerably.

Had a seney for a couple of months but sold it, but the ph was 7.9 most of the time. I haven't seen any change since.