Algae ID

[TylerJaid]

I just recently set up a sump on a tank that has been running for two years just looking to see if this is crycophites or gha, thanks! It’s also in my chaeto ball

 

[CoralB]

I just recently set up a sump on a tank that has been running for two years just looking to see if this is crycophites or gha, thanks! It’s also in my chaeto ball

Looks like sponge . I’m seeing bubbles you may have Dino’s . Check you phosphates and nitrates make sure there not near zero

 

[TylerJaid]

I just recently set up a sump on a tank that has been running for two years just looking to see if this is crycophites or gha, thanks! It’s also in my chaeto ball

Looks like sponge . I’m seeing bubbles you may have Dino’s . Check you phosphates and nitrates make sure there not near zero

They have always read zero nitrates .02 phosphates but I have gha pretty bad in display so I think that has always messed with my readings… I have never been able to wipe gha out I recently got a sea hare and he has been going to town for the last few weeks with little to no impact so far, very frusturating for me.

I have always had that brownish colored stuff with little bubbles on my gha if it’s not.. thanks for your help, I’m going to add a small Wavemaker to the sump to see if that helps and a couple gyres to the display. I’m trying to get rid of everything naturally

 

[TylerJaid]

I forgot to add there are a lot of micro bubbles in that part of sump due to the skimmer… they don’t get into display like that tho

 

[CoralB]

Nitrates should be between 10-20 phosphates should be between .05 - 1.0 . Should never let them go to zero .

 

[CoralB]

I forgot to add there are a lot of micro bubbles in that part of sump due to the skimmer… they don’t get into display like that tho

Those aren’t from skimmer and not micro bubbles

 

[TylerJaid]

Nitrates should be between 10-20 phosphates should be between .05 - 1.0 . Should never let them go to zero .

Will I still read nitrates even if I have a lot of gha, it has been at that for a long time but the gha grows like wildfire and I can’t seem to ever get rid of it… so if I dosed nitrates would I feed the gha or would it eventually “balance”? I’ve been doing this a while but still definitely new, I appreciate your help

 

[fish_collector]

Many types of algae will generate bubbles like that and it’s not necessarily dinoflagellates. Im not so sure ones nitrate and phosphate levels have any impact on GHA growth. My SPS tank has nitrate at 40 and phosphate well over 0.4 and I don’t have any nuisance algae.

With GHA, not too many creatures will eat it, some are reported to but I haven’t stumbled across any of them yet. You gotta manually pull it out and/or scrub it off, then let some big snails keep it mowed down. They’ll eat the green algae for sure but not after it’s filimentous. I’ve had good luck with zebra turbos, very specifically gotta be zebra turbos. They live a long life and get as big as tennis balls, and although they’ll stay in the same spot for several days and sleep, seemingly doing nothing, when they become active again they’ll clear out huge patches of algae. Sometimes mine discover the nori clip

I have some algae that will grow in sheets over the rocks in my FOWLR, I dunno what it is but it will generate bubbles. It siphons out pretty easily so I don’t sweat it too much.

 

[TylerJaid]

Many types of algae will generate bubbles like that and it’s not necessarily dinoflagellates. Im not so sure ones nitrate and phosphate levels have any impact on GHA growth. My SPS tank has nitrate at 40 and phosphate well over 0.4 and I don’t have any nuisance algae.

With GHA, not too many creatures will eat it, some are reported to but I haven’t stumbled across any of them yet. You gotta manually pull it out and/or scrub it off, then let some big snails keep it mowed down. They’ll eat the green algae for sure but not after it’s filimentous. I’ve had good luck with zebra turbos, very specifically gotta be zebra turbos. They live a long life and get as big as tennis balls, and although they’ll stay in the same spot for several days and sleep, seemingly doing nothing, when they become active again they’ll clear out huge patches of algae. Sometimes mine discover the nori clip

So in your opinion as well I should probably dose some nitrates or feed more and maybe order some zebra snails as well?? I have manually removed all of it so many times but just flies right back!!

 

[fish_collector]

I reread your original questions, and no, nutrients that are sequestered away in algae shouldn’t have any effect on a test reading. When you harvest the algae that is the nutrient export. If there are enough fish in the system your nutrients will rise. I used to have to add nutrients to my tank until I added some more fish and began feeding more.

And “they” say to not let your phosphate zero out or else dinos will show up. Perhaps that has some merit but I dunno I’ve not experienced that. The mechanism behind that theory is that with zero phosphate all of the Dino’s competitors will die off and allow them to flourish, but algae is pretty darned good at finding food even in a nutrient limited environment so I’m not 100% on board with that. I’m not saying it’s false but there may be more to it than that. I just don’t know.

Finding the balance in your tank is the hardest part of keeping it healthy. Often times it’s trial and error, and not just the “rules of reefkeeping”. What works for me may not work for you and vice versa. I’ve had great luck letting my nutrients become elevated and using zebra turbos, but I do have a tank literally full of corals and in certain instances that does matter.

I hope my rambling has helped some.

 

[TylerJaid]

I reread your original questions, and no, nutrients that are sequestered away in algae shouldn’t have any effect on a test reading. When you harvest the algae that is the nutrient export. If there are enough fish in the system your nutrients will rise. I used to have to add nutrients to my tank until I added some more fish and began feeding more.

And “they” say to not let your phosphate zero out or else dinos will show up. Perhaps that has some merit but I dunno I’ve not experienced that. The mechanism behind that theory is that with zero phosphate all of the Dino’s competitors will die off and allow them to flourish, but algae is pretty darned good at finding food even in a nutrient limited environment so I’m not 100% on board with that. I’m not saying it’s false but there may be more to it than that. I just don’t know.

Okay thank you for the info I’m just at a loss and sort of confusion on what to do… I have a 73 gallon system with, 55 gallon dt with 2 zebra dartfish, 2 clowns, a prawn goby, citron goby, small to mini tang, I feel like it’s well stocked but not overcrowded maybe I’m wrong… but I haven’t been able to get any reading on nitrates since the nitrogen cycle so maybe I am bottomed out… I just always read that it is “hiding” in the algae so won’t show on a test.. very frustrating but I appreciate everyone’s input!

 

[TylerJaid]

So I have been doing some more research on my never ending “GHA” battle and am wondering if this is actually Lyngbya and I have been treating my steps to remove this all wrong… I have never been able to read nitrates and very low phosphates from the beginning, and I didn’t want to dose anything thinking that it was gha and was fueling the fire, anybody have any thoughts on this please and thank you!

 

[fish_collector]

So I have been doing some more research on my never ending “GHA” battle and am wondering if this is actually Lyngbya and I have been treating my steps to remove this all wrong… I have never been able to read nitrates and very low phosphates from the beginning, and I didn’t want to dose anything thinking that it was gha and was fueling the fire, anybody have any thoughts on this please and thank you!

Perhaps!

Hobbyists (me included) seem to call all filamentous algae either GHA or Bryopsis. Yours is definitely not Bryopsis.

 

[TylerJaid]

So I have been doing some more research on my never ending “GHA” battle and am wondering if this is actually Lyngbya and I have been treating my steps to remove this all wrong… I have never been able to read nitrates and very low phosphates from the beginning, and I didn’t want to dose anything thinking that it was gha and was fueling the fire, anybody have any thoughts on this please and thank you!

Perhaps!

Hobbyists (me included) seem to call all filamentous algae either GHA or Bryopsis. Yours is definitely not Bryopsis.

I have had two blennys that died over that past two years one starry and one lawnmower, they were both very fat from eating the algae but I have read that this stuff is toxic and wonder if that’s what killed them, I am now thing I should try to dose some nitrates to get a readable level and maybe kill the skimmer for a few days, any thoughts on this?? I have also had Mexican turbo snails over the past couple years and they never live more than a few weeks… it may all be starting to finally add up, also this algae I have seems to be rooted really well in the rock if that helps! Thank you

 

[fish_collector]

I have had two blennys that died over that past two years one starry and one lawnmower, they were both very fat from eating the algae but I have read that this stuff is toxic and wonder if that’s what killed them, I am now thing I should try to dose some nitrates to get a readable level and maybe kill the skimmer for a few days, any thoughts on this?? I have also had Mexican turbo snails over the past couple years and they never live more than a few weeks… it may all be starting to finally add up, also this algae I have seems to be rooted really well in the rock if that helps! Thank you

It is my belief that nutrients should be maintained first and foremost at a level that is healthy for the corals, and deal with what else feeds off of it. Contrary to this some hobbyists maintain their tanks at very, very low Nitrate and Phosphate levels and have success as well. I've read that Nitrate levels of 0.5 to 1.0 is enough for corals to thrive but I've never had good luck with them that low. Phosphate is generally recommended to be between 0.03 and 0.1 with some advocating a bit higher.

Your experience with short lived turbo snails isn't unique, I can't keep them alive for even that long myself. I think they are collected in much cooler Mexican waters and have difficulty with the 80f that we keep our tanks at, but I may be wrong. I had suggested zebra turbos earlier because they seem to adapt much better and are long lived, I've had 4 of them for about 1.5 years now and they are still not full grown adults yet. And riddle me this Batman, zebras are the same price as the regular ones are.

I'm not buying the notion that high nutrients means more nuisance algae. My sps tank runs at a seriously high nutrient level and I don't really have a nuisance algae issue at all. Here's a photo of a N and P tests I ran 15 minutes ago just for this thread lol. My glass is dirty because it's a frag tank and I gotta give the snails something to forage on, I clean it once a week or two maybe.

You can easily raise your nutrients some and be ok. Rich ross used to say one never has an algae problem, they have a herbivore problem.

Do some more research and never be afraid to clean out algae that accumulates somewhere, eventually you'll get it under control and running smoothly. My tank took about 2 years before it ran on autopilot. I do still get GHA that grows in my overflow, and there is some red matty stuff that grows on the return pipes but neither of those is hard to deal with in about 2 minutes a week.

 

[TylerJaid]

I have had two blennys that died over that past two years one starry and one lawnmower, they were both very fat from eating the algae but I have read that this stuff is toxic and wonder if that’s what killed them, I am now thing I should try to dose some nitrates to get a readable level and maybe kill the skimmer for a few days, any thoughts on this?? I have also had Mexican turbo snails over the past couple years and they never live more than a few weeks… it may all be starting to finally add up, also this algae I have seems to be rooted really well in the rock if that helps! Thank you

It is my belief that nutrients should be maintained first and foremost at a level that is healthy for the corals, and deal with what else feeds off of it. Contrary to this some hobbyists maintain their tanks at very, very low Nitrate and Phosphate levels and have success as well. I've read that Nitrate levels of 0.5 to 1.0 is enough for corals to thrive but I've never had good luck with them that low. Phosphate is generally recommended to be between 0.03 and 0.1 with some advocating a bit higher.

Your experience with short lived turbo snails isn't unique, I can't keep them alive for even that long myself. I think they are collected in much cooler Mexican waters and have difficulty with the 80f that we keep our tanks at, but I may be wrong. I had suggested zebra turbos earlier because they seem to adapt much better and are long lived, I've had 4 of them for about 1.5 years now and they are still not full grown adults yet. And riddle me this Batman, zebras are the same price as the regular ones are.

I'm not buying the notion that high nutrients means more nuisance algae. My sps tank runs at a seriously high nutrient level and I don't really have a nuisance algae issue at all. Here's a photo of a N and P tests I ran 15 minutes ago just for this thread lol. My glass is dirty because it's a frag tank and I gotta give the snails something to forage on, I clean it once a week or two maybe.

You can easily raise your nutrients some and be ok. Rich ross used to say one never has an algae problem, they have a herbivore problem.

Do some more research and never be afraid to clean out algae that accumulates somewhere, eventually you'll get it under control and running smoothly. My tank took about 2 years before it ran on autopilot. I do still get GHA that grows in my overflow, and there is some red matty stuff that grows on the return pipes but neither of those is hard to deal with in about 2 minutes a week.

I think my plan of action is going to be

1) Raise nitrates to 5-10 (undetectable now) probably will dose it

2)Raise phosphates to .05

3) add more to my cuc currently have
15 blue legged hermits
10 small Cerith
10 Nassarrius
5 astrea
5 trochus
3 big ceriths
2 emerald crabs (decimated all bubble algae)
1 sea hare

I’ll look into adding the zebra turbos any other recommendations or bump in any of these numbers? Again 55 gallon tank thanks for the help and 30 nitrates doing just fine! I can’t wait till my tank stables out… I recently posted about cabbage leather going pale… low nitrates… maybe! You’ve helped a lot thanks for answering

 

[TylerJaid]

So today I tested all my parameters:
Salinity- 1.025
Temp- 79
Ph- 8
Alk- 8.1
Magnesium-1350
Calcium- 410
Nitrate- 0 (undetectable by api and salifert kits did them both twice)
Phosphate- .02 (measure same with salifert and hanna checker)

I have now shut my refugium light off but my skimmer is still on, should I leave it run and pull the cup so it doesn’t removing anything? Filter sock keep in or remove?

I know I need to get more nitrates in the tank, so should I dose it or remove this stuff offline, what I thought has been gha this whole time is more than likely dinos… what do we all think? Thanks everyone

Pics of this stuff growing in overflow box, it also gets on corals and on top of gha or some kind of algae, it doesn’t mat in the sand or clear up at night!

 

[fish_collector]

Siphon some of it out into a jar or something with a lid and then shake it to break it up into pieces, if it's dinos it will reform into strings.

 

[EnterName]

So today I tested all my parameters:
Salinity- 1.025
Temp- 79
Ph- 8
Alk- 8.1
Magnesium-1350
Calcium- 410
Nitrate- 0 (undetectable by api and salifert kits did them both twice)
Phosphate- .02 (measure same with salifert and hanna checker)

I have now shut my refugium light off but my skimmer is still on, should I leave it run and pull the cup so it doesn’t removing anything? Filter sock keep in or remove?

I know I need to get more nitrates in the tank, so should I dose it or remove this stuff offline, what I thought has been gha this whole time is more than likely dinos… what do we all think? Thanks everyone

Pics of this stuff growing in overflow box, it also gets on corals and on top of gha or some kind of algae, it doesn’t mat in the sand or clear up at night!

I've not gone through the entire thread so it's hard to tell for me if adding nutrients is really beneficial at this point, but if you really want to increase nitrate you should dose ammonia: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/diy-ammonia-dosing-for-low-nitrate-systems.987087/

Nitrate has to be converted back to ammonia before it can be properly assimilated by coral (and algae). This requires trace elements and energy and is only done when there is no better nitrogen source. Adding small amounts of ammonia fixes this issue and provides a direct benefit to corals.

You can do the same with phosphate if needed: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/diy-phosphate-dosing-recipe.1109919/

That being said: Increasing nutrients while experimenting algae growth will probably just feed the algae.

To identify dinoflagellates with certainty I would recommend a cheap/used compound microscope with at least 200x, better 400x magnification. I can help with the identification once you provide images

 

[TylerJaid]

Siphon some of it out into a jar or something with a lid and then shake it to break it up into pieces, if it's dinos it will reform into strings.

I am going to do this when I get off of work, just shake it and leave it under a light no light don’t matter? If it does break up probably some form of algae??