Alk dropping

[KustomAquarium]

having a major issue with my alk dropping, I've been trying to raise it over the past week(from mid to high 7s to 8.5 was my goal) today was 7.2 so I manually added soda ash about 100ml which should of brought me up to about 8 in my tank about 220 gallons. Well the tank has been cloudy af for 3 hours and the alk has dropped to 6.2 my calc is 544 now (which I haven't dosed in a week cause it was 420 and started to climb a little bit. Ph was 7.9 then bounced to 8.42 and is now back to 7.94 after I panicked and did a 50 gallon water change.

What would cause this? And what would be a remedy to fix it as well as something to prevent it from happening again?

 

[fishguy242]

don't panic ,wait until tomorrow to check levels,what type of testing /monitoring are you using? i myself check alk cal and look at ph exact time of day each time,esp ph up n down 24-7 ,your bounce in ph was caused by buffing don't understand high cal,though

 

[Cell]

Gotta add soda ash slowly. I'm not sure why all the alk beyond what you added precipitated though. This might be better served in the chemistry thread. Either way, I imagine @Randy Holmes-Farley will have an easy answer for you.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The calcium test (a jump of 100 ppm in a week with no dosing) is either error, or what you added wasn't soda ash solution.

Can you describe the exact solution you dosed?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Also, precipitation is not an emergency, so don't panic, even if the tank is milky.

There is nothing to do at the moment that is useful. Don't measure alk if the water is cloudy. it will be false high.

 

[Cell]

Also, precipitation is not an emergency, so don't panic, even if the tank is milky.

There is nothing to do at the moment that is useful. Don't measure alk if the water is cloudy. it will be false high.

But his alk is currently measuring lower than before he dosed, if that is false high, it's even lower than that? He went from 7, then dumped in soda ash and now is at 6.2 somehow.

 

[Crustaceon]

If you’re going to make adjustments like that, I’d use sodium bicarbonate instead. Soda ash is better suited for daily maintenance and is best added to your tank throughout the day and in small doses to lessen ph spikes & the chance of precipitation.

 

[Cell]

But he had a bit low pH to begin with and wanted to raise alk a full point, so wouldn't soda ash be preferred, just slower implementation? pH aside, I thought soda ash was more effective for quicker, major alk adjustments than sodium bicarb.

 

[KustomAquarium]

Exact solution: I premix 5- 1lb brs pharma pouch of soda ash to 5 gallons of rodi water per the mixing instructions on bag.

From that premix I took 100ml and further diluted with another 100ml of rodi water(yielding 200ml of diluted soda ash or a 1 to 2 ratio) and poured in the sump 50ml at a time over an hour.

My dosing pump is set to distribute 50ml of the normal diluted soda ash (1 to 1 ratio) 3 times a day (once at midnight, then 4am, and last at 8am)
I did this at 530 pm yesterday, went and did my normal routine, didn't see the display tank till later(about 7 and figured it was just normal cloudiness from the soda ash, it would go away and went about my business). Normally it's only cloudy for a short period but at 10pm it was still super cloudy and my aussie 24k good torch was almost completely within its skeleton so I panicked and changed about 50 gallons of water out, today it is clearer but I'm at work and won't be able to check my parameters till 330-4.

 

[KustomAquarium]

also to note I have the following available compounds at me ready:

Brs soda ash in pharma pouch
Brs kalk in pharma pouch
Brs Sodium bicarbonate in pharma pouch
Brs calcium chloride in pharma pouch

I do not dose all of these just the calcium and soda ash. I used the sodium bicarbonate to raise my alk to my desired level and the soda ash afterwards to maintain.

 

[KustomAquarium]

So alk is now at 5 and calcium has dropped to 445... any advice would be greatly appreciated

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

But his alk is currently measuring lower than before he dosed, if that is false high, it's even lower than that? He went from 7, then dumped in soda ash and now is at 6.2 somehow.

I'm simply stating a fact: if there is precipitated calcium carbonate suspended in the water, the alk will read false high because the calcium carbonate can dissolve in the acid of an alk test.

If there is substantial precipitation that has settled out of the water, the alk can read low and still be false high.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

But he had a bit low pH to begin with and wanted to raise alk a full point, so wouldn't soda ash be preferred, just slower implementation? pH aside, I thought soda ash was more effective for quicker, major alk adjustments than sodium bicarb.

There is no situation where one wants to raise pH by a full point in a reef tank.

Sodium bicarbonate and sodium carbonate both raise alkalinity instantly, and generally you should not want to raise alk any more than either can safely do at once, but if the sodium carbonate is not mixed in reasonably quickly, it can initiate some precipitation of calcium carbonate due to the locally high pH (it is normal to see transient precipitation of magnesium hydroxide when adding it, but that's not the concern as it will redissolve).

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

So alk is now at 5 and calcium has dropped to 445... any advice would be greatly appreciated

Since your tank is primed now for more precipitation by all the fresh calcium carbonate surfaces, I would wait a couple of days then would use baking soda to boost alk to 7 dKH over a couple of days and leave it at that alk for a while. I'd ignore calcium at this point.

 

[Dilan Patel]

What test kit are you using?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I strongly recommend closely monitoring the dosing pumps and controller to be sure it didn't somehow become set to deliver more than you expect. Such errors are not uncommon.

 

[KustomAquarium]

What test kit are you using?

I use hannah checkers all brand new with new reagents. My other tank checks fine with them.

Since your tank is primed now for more precipitation by all the fresh calcium carbonate surfaces, I would wait a couple of days then would use baking soda to boost alk to 7 dKH over a couple of days and leave it at that alk for a while. I'd ignore calcium at this point.

I have many high end corals in this display, I don't think I can ignore calcium?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I use hannah checkers all brand new with new reagents. My other tank checks fine with them.


I have many high end corals in this display, I don't think I can ignore calcium?

That's not what I meant. i meant it needs no corrective action. Ignore it while trying to recover from this situation.

 

[Cell]

There is no situation where one wants to raise pH by a full point in a reef tank.

Sodium bicarbonate and sodium carbonate both raise alkalinity instantly, and generally you should not want to raise alk any more than either can safely do at once, but if the sodium carbonate is not mixed in reasonably quickly, it can initiate some precipitation of calcium carbonate due to the locally high pH (it is normal to see transient precipitation of magnesium hydroxide when adding it, but that's not the concern as it will redissolve).

I said raise alk by a full point, not pH. But I had it backwards, sodium bicarb is considered better for a large alkalinity adjustment than sodium carbonate because of sodium carbonate's effect on pH as @Crustaceon noted. I guess my interest here is the opposite effects sodium bicarbonate and sodium carbonate have on pH and how much consideration it should have when deciding which to use. If the OP's starting pH is 7.9, is there any concern about lowering that pH level further when dosing sodium bicarbonate over the course of a couple days?

I'm piggybacking with my own personal situation here. I have low pH and alk so I've been using soda ash with the idea that it will hopefully address both issues, but my reef tank chemistry knowledge is a bit lacking.

 

[C. Eymann]

I agree thats a big amount of soda ash T once depending on the strength of solution.

Curious as to what your magnesium level is if you are having trouble balancing alk/cal.