Alkalinity at 15.5, was at 20. How to bring down

[Lasse]

He suggested dosing Seachem acid buffer, which will work exactly as he suggested. The CO2 blow off is a side effect, not the "method".

Yes it will lower the alkalinity because its an acid, hence adding H ions

I was maybe unclear - I reacted to this description - my bold and italic

temporarily lower PH as it converts alkalinity to CO2 permanently which is then best gassed off

Sincerely Lasse

 

[GARRIGA]

No it will not work. CO2 only affect pH - not alkalinity. If your corals consume 2 dKH/day - just stop or lower the alkalinity part in your dosing and wait. Keep an eye on Ca levels.

Yes - I store my Hanna reagent in the refrigerator - see here

Important findings according how to store open bottles of the reagent for Hanna Marine alkalinity checkers

There is a way to hinder the Hanna alk to show lesser and lesser dKH (or ppm for that matter) with age of open reagent bottle. I had the same story as many have reported here - my reading decrease from a new open bottle with time. Double check with another method show that there was not a real...

www.reef2reef.com

Sincerely Lasse

Yes it will lower the alkalinity because its an acid, hence adding H ions

I was maybe unclear - I reacted to this description - my bold and italic


Sincerely Lasse

Per Seachem:

"Acid Buffer™ is a non–phosphate buffer to lower pH and buffer with Alkaline Buffer™. Both buffers are designed for the planted aquarium or for very hard water where phosphate buffers may pose an algae or cloudiness problem. Acid Buffer™ lowers pH and buffers between 6.0 and 8.0 when used with Alkaline Buffer™. As Acid Buffer™ lowers pH it converts carbonate alkalinity (KH) into available CO2."

Similar happens with plants when CO2 levels are low in that they strip the water of carbonates which then lowers the buffering capacity which might lower PH.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Per Seachem:


Similar happens with plants when CO2 levels are low in that they strip the water of carbonates which then lowers the buffering capacity which might lower PH.

I give instructions for sodium bisulfate (cheaper on amazon, but Seachem sells it as acid buffer) here:

Sodium Bisulfate to Reduce Alkalinity in New Salt Water or in Display Tanks

I just want to record these calculations in their own thread to refer back to in other threads. When alkalinity is too high in new salt water or in a display tank, acid can be used to lower the alkalinity. You can easily use muriatic acid (hydrochloric acid), or sodium bifulfate (e.g...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[GARRIGA]

I give instructions for sodium bisulfate (cheaper on amazon, but Seachem sells it as acid buffer) here:

Sodium Bisulfate to Reduce Alkalinity in New Salt Water or in Display Tanks

I just want to record these calculations in their own thread to refer back to in other threads. When alkalinity is too high in new salt water or in a display tank, acid can be used to lower the alkalinity. You can easily use muriatic acid (hydrochloric acid), or sodium bifulfate (e.g...

www.reef2reef.com

Wasn't aware that's what it is. Don't see any ingredients listed on the bottle. Typical Seachem. I'll use that once my supply is gone. Saving money has never been a struggle for me. Thanks.

 

[Spare time]

Should I just water change it out/down then? Are you certain?

Yeah its fine. Just go ahead and do the water change if you want. Usually it's a big increase that is more of an issue (and I think that has a lot to do with the associated pH boost).



However, if your tank costumes a lot of alk, then I'd just let it drop on its own. I don't think anything terrible is going to happen either way.

 

[GARRIGA]

I give instructions for sodium bisulfate (cheaper on amazon, but Seachem sells it as acid buffer) here:

Sodium Bisulfate to Reduce Alkalinity in New Salt Water or in Display Tanks

I just want to record these calculations in their own thread to refer back to in other threads. When alkalinity is too high in new salt water or in a display tank, acid can be used to lower the alkalinity. You can easily use muriatic acid (hydrochloric acid), or sodium bifulfate (e.g...

www.reef2reef.com

BTW, what's the maximum drop in kh that can be done in one day with corals? Better yet, what's the most it can drop per application as well since it could be staggered throughout the day and perhaps less stressful and allows bigger change per day.

I've been of the understanding it shouldn't exceed 1 dkh in 24 hours but no science behind it. Just what I learned in the 70s and was pertaining to freshwater which i just used as my base for all waters. Thinking better safe than sorry.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

BTW, what's the maximum drop in kh that can be done in one day with corals? Better yet, what's the most it can drop per application as well since it could be staggered throughout the day and perhaps less stressful and allows bigger change per day.

I've been of the understanding it shouldn't exceed 1 dkh in 24 hours but no science behind it. Just what I learned in the 70s and was pertaining to freshwater which i just used as my base for all waters. Thinking better safe than sorry.

I think the immediate pH drop may be more problematic than the alk drop, but in terms of alk itself, I am not sure. I would go slow, maybe 0.25 dKH a day.

 

[GARRIGA]

I think the immediate pH drop may be more problematic than the alk drop, but in terms of alk itself, I am not sure. I would go slow, maybe 0.25 dKH a day.

PH drop is why I would split the dosages throughout the day. From reading the link you provide. It appears the affect is instantaneous therefore one could monitor PH to determine each dosage. Possibly wait on PH rising before next dosage or using an actual doser and spreading it evenly over 24 hourly intervals.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

PH drop is why I would split the dosages throughout the day. From reading the link you provide. It appears the affect is instantaneous therefore one could monitor PH to determine each dosage. Possibly wait on PH rising before next dosage or using an actual doser and spreading it evenly over 24 hourly intervals.

That's true.

 

[ApoIsland]

BTW, what's the maximum drop in kh that can be done in one day with corals? Better yet, what's the most it can drop per application as well since it could be staggered throughout the day and perhaps less stressful and allows bigger change per day.

I've been of the understanding it shouldn't exceed 1 dkh in 24 hours but no science behind it. Just what I learned in the 70s and was pertaining to freshwater which i just used as my base for all waters. Thinking better safe than sorry.

I dropped mine from 17.5 to 12.5 instantly with one very large water change and nothing died. let it naturally drop down with normal daily consumption after that. I have 7-8 easy to keep sps and then mostly lps though so nothing super delicate.

I have a torch and a welso that spent a couple days not quite as big and beautiful as they normally are, also one of my two clams had a small patch of mantle lose a little color but that’s coming back.

I did not look close enough at everything to see if that color loss was from the rapid drop or the slow increase from 5.5 to 17.5 over a 2 week period. Was basically adding 2dkh per day on a tank that was only consuming 1 dkh per day. For a math guy this was a very embarrassing miscalculation…

 

[Doctorgori]

To drop it down by .3 a day I would have to still dose 2 part. My tank will fall 2 dkh a day without dosing. Do you think I should cut my daily dose down from 50mL to say 35mL to have it fall slower?

I was worried 15 dkh in itself could be toxic.

Thanks.

my bad, I didn’t know or notice you were burning alkalinity at that rate naturally well obviously if it’s already high don’t add more…. I definitely would not drop it fast using external/chemicals eitherway

edit added. You will get all manner of samples and testimonials on coral survival following alkalinity changes ( just like Vibrance) I don’t doubt any testimonials but my experiences are fast alk swings are bad … I have no clue what the actual tolerances or thresholds corals have to it

 

[MnFish1]

Nothing good happens fast in a reef aquarium. Whatever you do, I suggest doing it slowly. Corals typically like stability. If it took a week vacation to get to 20...take at least a week to get it back down.

I'd question 20dKH...I recall reading one of @Randy Holmes-Farley articles that showed such a high dKH would cause a precipitation event that would lower Alk/Ca levels.

Water changes with a quality salt are the best way to bring parameters slowly back to your desired levels.

How did this happen?

I had an Alkalinity of 22 - and it was confirmed - and transitory. After a certain controller dumped a liter of alkalinity and Ca in the tank over 12 hours. There was no cloudy water, etc. Immediately the alkalinity was 22 - then dropped over hours to 15 or so - then slowly dropped over weeks - I did not do anything - except turn of my doses. I lost come corals - which were dead after the first 24 hours. the rest looked horrible for about 3 weeks then slowly came back. I personally base doing anything on how the corals are doing. Additionally - the PH, etc. In theory most of it precipitates. I did have a high Mg level

BTW - I would also check the test - unless you have a clear reason why it jumped like that. These things always happen on vacation - it seems

 

[arking_mark]

my bad, I didn’t know or notice you were burning alkalinity at that rate naturally well obviously if it’s already high don’t add more…. I definitely would not drop it fast using external/chemicals eitherway

edit added. You will get all manner of samples and testimonials on coral survival following alkalinity changes ( just like Vibrance) I don’t doubt any testimonials but my experiences are fast alk swings are bad … I have no clue what the actual tolerances or thresholds corals have to it

Often corals show effects weeks after the actual incidents...

 

[GARRIGA]

I dropped mine from 17.5 to 12.5 instantly with one very large water change and nothing died. let it naturally drop down with normal daily consumption after that. I have 7-8 easy to keep sps and then mostly lps though so nothing super delicate.

I have a torch and a welso that spent a couple days not quite as big and beautiful as they normally are, also one of my two clams had a small patch of mantle lose a little color but that’s coming back.

I did not look close enough at everything to see if that color loss was from the rapid drop or the slow increase from 5.5 to 17.5 over a 2 week period. Was basically adding 2dkh per day on a tank that was only consuming 1 dkh per day. For a math guy this was a very embarrassing miscalculation…

Seems they got stressed but not terminally affected. That’s good to know. Never expected that large a drop would be survived by even fish. Good to know.

 

[ApoIsland]

Seems they got stressed but not terminally affected. That’s good to know. Never expected that large a drop would be survived by even fish. Good to know.

I don’t think the large swings are nearly as bad as people here make them out to be. Most likely they are looking at the effects of alk changes on the most delicate corals and broadly applying that to all organisms with total disregard to what most of us actually keep in our tanks.

For many years I dosed nothing at all and my alk would drop to the 3-4dkh range. I would then do my regular once a month 50% water change which would instantly bump it up to the 7 dkh range. Zero problems through the years with that approach.

 

[GARRIGA]

I don’t think the large swings are nearly as bad as people here make them out to be. Most likely they are looking at the effects of alk changes on the most delicate corals and broadly applying that to all organisms with total disregard to what most of us actually keep in our tanks.

For many years I dosed nothing at all and my alk would drop to the 3-4dkh range. I would then do my regular once a month 50% water change which would instantly bump it up to the 7 dkh range. Zero problems through the years with that approach.

In general. The internet often regurgitates that which they’ve never actually had experience with. Why I go off experience more than blank statements.

I’ve made 1.5 dkh drops without issue but that was fish and only because I wanted to test how high I could go. Started with half and worked my way up over several days dropping 14 down to 9. Next time I’m going to try 2 dkh drop to see how that goes. Joy of having a test tank. At some point I’ll add corals and try that. Mushrooms and LPS. Later SPS. Only one way to find out.

 

[pledosophy]

Update:

Alk was down to 13.1 this morning. All the colonies look pretty good with the exception of my Lepto which has some tissue regression. My frags look like crap. Ca intake increased slightly more than normal. Also had a lot of coraline growth so took this picture while I was cleaning the powerheads.

I am changing 5g of water a day and continuing to dose Calcium.

So far so good.

Picture shot on an iPhone with one of those clip on wide angle lens with the orange gel, so the color is a bit off but you get the idea.

 

[pledosophy]

In general. The internet often regurgitates that which they’ve never actually had experience with. Why I go off experience more than blank statements.

I have found this to be so, so many times. I think people just want to help, but ... it slow progress. So much of it gets regurgitated to so people become so passionate about an echo of someones idea (which is not fact) that it gets engrained in our tribal knowledge. If you have in certain circles you get some idea of who to listen to more often than not. That is actually why I joined R2R. I followed Randy lol.

 

[GARRIGA]

I have found this to be so, so many times. I think people just want to help, but ... it slow progress. So much of it gets regurgitated to so people become so passionate about an echo of someones idea (which is not fact) that it gets engrained in our tribal knowledge. If you have in certain circles you get some idea of who to listen to more often than not. That is actually why I joined R2R. I followed Randy lol.

Man knows his chemistry. Something I’d rather just grasp holistically and not smart enough to get deep into the weeds with. Smart enough to know I’m not smart enough

I’m running a test tank to amuse myself as my DTs are a couple of years away. Been experimenting for six plus years ideas I had since the 70s that overtime evolved to where I am today. Work and play made me stop mid 90s. It’s amazing the stuff I read that won’t work or how it should yet my actual experience says different. If people actually tried disproving some of the nonsense they’d be amazed at how what they read and parroted was just wrong. At least in-terms of how it exactly pertained you their specific tank. No two alike yet it seems most try replicating some other as if that was the only way.

Does bring to mind that I’m sure there’s is that I believe to be fact that must be wrong but I’m willing to find out. I’m skeptical of all including myself.

 

[pledosophy]

Update- tank is looking great actually. I did have a mass calcium consumption event happen for a few days as the tank returned to it's normal alk rannge. I went through about 150 mL of part A in addition to what I normally dose over the last week.

Today is the first day my numbers are what they normally run. Tank is looking very good. I will update in a few more weeks to see if any damage to any of the corals from the roller coaster show up.