Alkalinity-

[scouncil]

OK, I nearly had a tank disaster about 1.5 weeks ago. I thought I had turned off one of my return pumps (the one that is split to the refugium and the side closest to the front door) and I thought the refugium was attached to the other pump. I'm old and senile remember? I've previously had the 100 gal, but never the big reef thing other than some mushrooms and a hammer that lived, but never flourished.

This tank is much bigger and requires a lot more care (by me-uh many of you know that Kierl comes in and does the big tank clean and changes the water and he did all the care of the prior tank which turns out to be WAY less complicated than the new tank....

Anyway, the intake to the pump was clogged and it was barely pumping. The other pump was partially clogged (I have 2 pumps for return- a mag 18 and either a mag 9 or mag 7). Anyway, everything had been doing fine and all of a sudden the blue carpet looked pitiful. And remember that I had been feeding more brine shrimp so that I could try to save yet another blue tang that I bought and was eating well, but got ich and is now dead.

So feeding a lot and poor return flow. I know, bad combination. My ph dropped to 7.7 and my alkalinitiy was at 3-3.5 range. It was late. No LFS would be open. I did the baking soda thing to get the pH up and bought the reef builder alkalinity booster thing and have now done that about 3 times at the max dosage (once the day after, yesterday and today). It's staying around 3.5.

I have a tropic marin test kit and it reads 9-10 dKH which it tells me is ok. The instant ocean kit tells me it's still low at 3.5. I know they are different scales, but how can one be in the ok, on the highish side (tropic marin) and the other be still low. Ph has been fine at 8.2. Nitrate after 20gal water change the other day is 5ppm where it had been 10-15 (couldn't quite tell). Nitrite is <.01 (or is it <.1, whatever the lowest reading is). Ca is still >500 for some odd reason, but is better than over 600 like it was when I first started the tank. My nitrates were something horrible like 60-80ppm on the API test kit, but I feed coral vital twice a week and they say that that test in inaccurate with coral vital (I about fell over). Coral vital doesn't screw up tropic marin?

The powder blue is now dead (2 days ago), so I'm cutting way back on my feeding. My corals all look fine. Snails are alive, though I guess there could be dead ones in the rocks that I just don't see. I did notice a couple of dead ones last week. The blue carpet is looking better and I think is going to live (really had my doubts for a while and it still might go, but it's been looking better over the last day or so).

My question is- did the low pH/alkalinity kill all my nice good bacteria in the refugium (it had bad water flow for probably at least a week) and my tank is going to try and cycle again? Why can't I keep the kH up? I've got cheato in the fuge and it looks fine, though it's a darker green than probably it should be. All my measurements were good until last week (and I was checking every other week, obviously not enough).
Susan

 

[ironman]

first off susan, throw away the instant ocean alk test, they all show low. use the tropic marin kit. second, I dont think 7.7 ph would have been horribly stressful for a short period of time. nor do I think your alk would have been an issue at all, especially for the carpet.
Without seeing things for myself all I can advise is keep doing some small frequent water changes till things look better.
Maybe patrick can chime in here, I really have no experience on nems.

 

[salt newbie01]

So sorry to hear about the tang. As far as the nem goes...I am not sure that the ph dropping to 7.7 and slightly low alk would cause the nem to "freak out". Usually parameters in a tank change slowly so most of the animals can adapt to a lot more than some give them credit. If it was a rapid change, like during the course of 24 hours then maybe. I just wonder why your ph dropped - I wouldn't think low flow would do that...you are not running a calcium or kalk reactor are you??? If so then maybe the low flow in relation to the reactor caused the ph to drop. With all that said - My experience with nems has been with my big green bubble tip - Which is one of the easiest of the nems to keep. While it is still an animal which requires a good bit of care they are definitely WAY easier than the gigantea nem. As I have previously stated this is one of the hardest nems to keep. It may be VERY sensitive to fluctuations in tank parameters. It may also be nothing you have done. People with a ton of experience with different types of nems have had gigantea's die for apparently no reason. I am not mentioning this to discourage you just to let you know what you are up against.
The tang may have nothing to do with the nem not looking good. In fact I bet they are completely unrelated. As Bryan said I would do small water changes often and test your water parameters even more frequently. I would also stop feeding brine shrimp. They have very little nutritional value. I would switch to mysis, soak them in tank water with a supplement ( like vita-chem). I think the key to keeping fish healthy is a variety of diet. Changing from nori sheets to good quality flake food to mysis. I try to feed something different everyday. I use 3 diff dry foods, 2 diff types of nori and 2 diff frozen foods. I also try to soak in a supplement - the nori soaks in tank water and kent zoe the frozen foods soak in tank water and vita-chem. I would try to feed your nem a piece or two of a silverside twice a week. I would soak the silverside in tank water and vita-chem or other supplement. Try not to feed anything much larger then the nems mouth. I think overfeeding a nem can be bad.

I hope some of this ranting helps. Keep us up to date with what happens. If you need something let us know - maybe a tank intervention??

For more info on the nem - look to RC there is a section in the forums on clown fish and nems. There is a ton of info about nems and about people's experience with gigantea nems. Sorry Dave I hate to send someone to RC but I know it will just be for info. Who could turn their back on this great site??? NO ONE!!!!

 

[scouncil]

The blue carpet looks great right now (after work today). I was feeding mysis and still do, but with the clowns, I was doing the brine (they aren't very big) and the big tang rushes around and eats all the mysis within seconds (he's really fat- or it's a she, I'd guess since she's big enough to have a lire tail if she were a he).

Oh, and my rose anenome split. I've got a smaller rose running around causing havok now too. The little maroon clowns go and look at the smaller one from time to time, but always go back to the bigger one. I'm just moving thing out of the way as it moves around. I'm surprised at how fast it moves.

And no, no calcium or kalk reactor, so that's not the problem. Thanks for the advice. I don't think I need a tank intervention yet.... And I thought 7.7 was OMG low!! I'll get over it now. So you think my Tropic Marin kit is correct. What about the nitrates? I should trust it on the nitrates too?
Susan

 

[bkv1997]

I'd stop dosing coral vital and anything else that doesn't specifically say whats in it on the bottle.

Of all the things you've mentioned your nitrates are the only thing that appear to be way out of line for a reef tank.

Brandon

 

[scouncil]

Nitrate was 5ppm the other day. Is that too high? Maybe I should look at the scale again. It's one of the lowest readings.....

 

[bkv1997]

You said 60-80 ppm in your post.

5 is ok, but I would stive for 0 in the reef.

 

[ironman]

Brandon if you would read the thread you would have known why her reading was so high, she is dosing coral vital, which I also use to dose (its to expensive) I also had the high nitrate readings. all that to say her nitrates probly arnt really that high. But it would be nice to know what they really are. Like I said I believe the bottle or something out there tells you how to properly test nitrates while dosing it.

 

[ironman]

Oh ya, and susan unless you are keeping SPS, forget brandons stupid advice about 0 nitrates. believe it or not there are some Very smart reefers out there with very impressive reefs who dose nitrates. In small amounts they can be good. But I would say try and "Strive" for 20 or less PPM :D

 

[scouncil]

It's been 20 or less with my tropic marin kit, generally 5ppm, occasionally 10 before a water change. The freaky high reading was with another test (not mine and how can they be THAT far off?). I made sure I shook all the bottles very well.... And I'm not going to keep SPS. I have a Bird's nest that Joy gave me and it looks fine, but since Brandon kills SPS on a fairly regular basis, and he's Mr. Anal about SW tanks, I know I'd do better playing the Lotto......

 

[bkv1997]

What the heck is this about me kiling SPS?

I haven't lost an SPS in probably a year and I have frags of all the ones that took a turn for the worse that are now growing very nicely.

Don't listen to everything you hear Susan. I personally think some Acans and Zoas are much harder to keep alive. SPS are just difficult to keep colorful. Just my 2 cents

 

[scouncil]

I thought that YOU told me that you killed several. Whatever I said (I'm too tired to go and look), it was said by you. I could have misunderstood you, of course or not understood which corals you were talking about. Remember that I am mushroom/leather queen and everything else is still a mystery to me. No, it wasn't from Bryan bad mouthing you again......

 

[revhtree Verified Admin]

What the heck is this about me kiling SPS?

I haven't lost an SPS in probably a year and I have frags of all the ones that took a turn for the worse that are now growing very nicely.

Don't listen to everything you hear Susan. I personally think some Acans and Zoas are much harder to keep alive. SPS are just difficult to keep colorful. Just my 2 cents

I agree 100%!