All for Reef Problems - Dosing and increases

Randy Holmes-Farley

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I think the attraction to AFR is all-in-one dosing. Hence why I've been trying to switch over to it. However, I've struggled with stability and automation which is much easier to achieve with other methods such as 2-part.

Yes, I agree. That's why I was asking why he suggested the opposite.
 
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arking_mark

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Yes, I agree. That's why I was asking why he suggested the opposite.

I've been using AFR for about 3+ months. I think my 400L tank will now measure AFR dosing in about 6 hrs. I'm not quite ready to share my results, but I've essentially stopped using my 2-part to keep my Alk stable.
 

vcollins9850

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Hello, I am using a Kamoer X1 pump that I set up a few weeks ago. I followed the instructions removed the air and calibrated it. I wanted to use All for reef to maintain my KH, Calc and Mag.

Current Levels:
Tank Size 140 litres
Kh 10 - Hanna DkH Checker
Calcium 420
Magnesium between 1350 - 1400 (Hard to tell)
Salinity 1.0245
Phos 0.3 (Working on it)
Nitrates 3 - 5 ppm
PH between 7.9 - 8.1 (Apex)



Tank size is 140 litres with a collection of LPS, and Mainly Zoa's with a few small SPS frags. (Nothing major) I am currently dosing into my return area in my sump. Not sure about sump turnover (Could this be a problem? As It doesn't really look like a high flow area).

After testing each day I found my KH drops via Hanna Checker by 0.3 dkh per day this was for 3 days tested at the same time each day. So according to the calculator for all for reef i need to use 7ml per day to achieve 0.3 dkh?


I started a few weeks ago as a test to dose 7ml per day split in-to 6 doses throughout the day. Tested after 24 hours. Kh was the same 8 tested after 24 hours 8.1 then I suddenly get a bump to around 9 after a few days even if I drop the dosage to 3ml per day (As I noticed it rising) it just keeps rising and within a week I am at 10 or 11 even at a low of 2ml per day. So for now I have the doser turned off (Has been for a couple of weeks). If I use the red sea liquid at the required dose once a day the all raises the 0.3ml it needs and stays the same.


I am really unsure what is happening at this moment I thought I could keep a stable KH Level. I have used both the red sea KH test and Hanna checker and get around the same results. Even brought new reagents etc.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Hope this makes sense.
I’ve been using it in a kamoer micro pump for about 6 months in my 39 gal. I was getting big alk swings between water changes which was affecting my lps severely. I started at 2.5 ml per day and started measuring alk every day on Hannah checker. Took a few weeks to start dialing it in and once corals were happy and growing again I started slowly upping it to keep up. I’m at 13ml a day spread over 12 doses to keep alk at 8. It’s a fairly stocked tank in terms of corals. Only sps are montis. But lots of montis, chalice, frogspawn, and zoas. Now I check once a week to see if I need to change dosing
 

ctopherl

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I think the attraction to AFR is all-in-one dosing. Hence why I've been trying to switch over to it. However, I've struggled with stability and automation which is much easier to achieve with other methods such as 2-part.
Agreed! Especially when you start looking at trace elements and the "part C" for balling method, all of a sudden I have to regularly dose ~6 different solutions?? No thanks.
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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Agreed! Especially when you start looking at trace elements and the "part C" for balling method, all of a sudden I have to regularly dose ~6 different solutions?? No thanks.

lol

A little hyperbole?

No 2/3 part system is more than 3 parts, and many are only two that are dosed exactly equally to give the same effect as AFR.

Sure, 2 or 3 is more work than 1. But it is not six times as much work. lol
 
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paintman

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Quick question on the AFR powder. The instructions on the label say to mix 1 level mixing spoon of AFR to 1 liter of RO. What spoon are they refering to? teaspoon ....tablespoon????? Is there a certain metric spoon the Germans use????? LOL! I know they also say 160 grams/liter but who the hell wants to run out and buy a scale?
 

Midrats

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Why do people add it in multiple doses throughout the day if the calcium and alkalinity are gradually released by bacteria metabolizing the calcium formate? Does pH suffer while using this product?
 

attiland

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Lou from Tropic Marine instructed me to use calcium as the monitor for how much to use. Then if additional ALK is needed I add Balling part B. Im still working on stabilizing things but Ive been adding corals so its difficult to get things perfect right now.
I actually came to the same conclusion that ca is the best indicator. I dose magnesium and alk separately as needed
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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Why do people add it in multiple doses throughout the day if the calcium and alkalinity are gradually released by bacteria metabolizing the calcium formate? Does pH suffer while using this product?

Calcium is added instantly.

Alk is slowly released, if at all. Lou suggested much of the alk is released and consumed directly inside the coral, perhaps bypassing the whole "alk in solution is important/alk stability" thing.
 
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Waynerock

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Curious as to how and why one could get more stability using this product than a two part? Did you try using a two part first?
I used the seachem part 1 and part 2 and I always seemed to have a drift in either cal or alk with no rhyme or reason. Same type of doser I use now and I calibrated it at the same intervals( weekly). The 2 part would start to increase my salinity after a few months as well and I would have to adjust the fresh salt on water changes. I can set my watch to the numbers I get from AFR and I still test alk on Hanna 3-4 times a week just cause I have trust issues and it’s always 8.7 to 9 if I test the same time of day.
 

Viva'sReef

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About 90g of total water volume here, I'm using a Kamoer X1 to dial in the AFR dosing combined with the data from an Alkatronic. The data logging really helped me early on testing 6x per day when I was dosing manually but now that I have it on the Kamoer it requires little attention. Currently dosing 0.7ml 24x per day.
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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I used the seachem part 1 and part 2 and I always seemed to have a drift in either cal or alk with no rhyme or reason. Same type of doser I use now and I calibrated it at the same intervals( weekly). The 2 part would start to increase my salinity after a few months as well and I would have to adjust the fresh salt on water changes. I can set my watch to the numbers I get from AFR and I still test alk on Hanna 3-4 times a week just cause I have trust issues and it’s always 8.7 to 9 if I test the same time of day.

FWIW, Seachem Reef Fusion is not properly designed for 1:1 dosing. A properly designed two part should allow dosing based on just alk as you are for AFR.
 

Anirban

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Another thing I really don't understand about why AFR don't contain potassium as supplement?
 

Waynerock

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I used the seachem part 1 and part 2 and I always seemed to have a drift in either cal or alk with no rhyme or reason. Same type of doser I use now and I calibrated it at the same intervals( weekly). The 2 part would start to increase my salinity after a few months as well and I would have to adjust the fresh salt on water changes. I can set my watch to the numbers I get from AFR and I still test alk on Hanna 3-4 times a week just cause I have trust issues and it’s always 8.7 to 9 if I test the same time of day.
I was also growing pretty massive SPS colony’s on AFR too, but tank was only 65 gal so not a huge water volume
FWIW, Seachem Reef Fusion is not properly designed for 1:1 dosing. A properly designed two part should allow dosing based on just alk as you are for AFR.
when I dosed it was never 1:1 IDK if I was doing it wrong and it’s been over a year so forgive me I can not remember the exact dosage amounts but I do remember that I always had to dose a little more alk than cal. To this day I still keep the reef chemistry calculator tabbed on my browser.
 

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sealife4life

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FWIW, Seachem Reef Fusion is not properly designed for 1:1 dosing. A properly designed two part should allow dosing based on just alk as you are for AFR.
I was using seachem but switched to ATI. Better product and has more trace elements than seachem.
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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I was wondering the same thing.

The pH effect is identical to dosing bicarbonate for alk: a very small pH lowering. probably too small to be noticed when it is released slowly.
 

sealife4life

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Dosing throughout the day keeps level more stable opposed to all at once. Using alk usually is dosed when lights are out to help with ph drop and ca with the lights.
 

jesspal

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Quick question on the AFR powder. The instructions on the label say to mix 1 level mixing spoon of AFR to 1 liter of RO. What spoon are they refering to? teaspoon ....tablespoon????? Is there a certain metric spoon the Germans use????? LOL! I know they also say 160 grams/liter but who the hell wants to run out and buy a scale?
It comes with a spoon in the container.
 

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