Am I crazy for thinking MH + t5 ?

[A. grandis]

This is so great!
There are so many MH lovers coming with their experiences and tips.
I found good info here!

Hi BoomCorals:
I'm not an expert in any way, so this will be only what I've seen and read.
And I have no MHs at home for more than 15 years, so...
I decided to answer your PM here so people could also correct me if I'm wrong, or maybe others would add to my suggestions...

I would avoid the Current USA fixture though and the SE Cayman Sun. I also would think you should get the best you could afford now, so you wouldn't have to change anything in the near future, or have a so so experience with the halides. Besides, as a professional, it's an investment for your business.
I would think that you didn't think about saving when you got your LEDs to your systems, so the same should be applied with MHs. Quality is more important in the long run.

The Current USA isn't the best quality system you can offer and the SE Cayman, as Jeremy Luke posted (see BRS video below), has an awkward distribution because of the position of the center of the bulb that normally fits towards the side of the fixture instead in the very center, so the spread is compromised that way. I don't like the so called HQI (DE) fixtures because of the risk of braking the ceramic ends (they show that in the video below too). That is known since the 90's. They do a great job reflecting though, with superb PAR. I also like to have the outer jacket of the SE bulbs made of UV absorbing glass, besides the lens to protect the bulb, so SE bulbs/fixture is what I like.

The Cebu comes ready to use and it's not that expensive. Besides the T5s will give you the best combination to grow your corals because you can have the halides for like 6 hours and the T5s for 8 hours a day. All in one package!
You can use Radiums 20K with 2 ATI Blue Plus on the extremes and 2 ATI Coral Plus close to the halide bulbs in that fixture. But will that spread the light like the Lumen Bright or the Cozumel Sun?

In your case, because the corals will be ~6" below the water surface, and the tank is 4' X 2', I would definitely get the Coral Vue Lumen Bright or the Cozumel Sun for it's uniformity in distribution.
The Lumen Bright has adjustable socket and is 16" X 16" and the Cozumel Sun gives also a great spread and it's 20 X20. That way, the light will be well distributed. Quality, quality, quality!

I personally like DE bulbs and would get Radium with 2 X Lumen Bright or 2 X Cozumel Sun reflector with the LuXcore ballasts.

Cozumel Sun:

OR Lumen Bright:

LuXcore ballast:

Here is the video for you:

Hope that helps!

Aloha,
Grandis.

 

[DSC reef]

Thanks for the input. I'm going to buy a cheap MH/T5 fixture on eBay and see how I like it. Then can at least get a feel for things before I invest big bucks either way.

Be careful with those cheap fixtures. Not saying you won't like it but quality ballasts and reflectors do matter. Let us know how it looks, pics are better. Lol

 

[BoomCorals]

Hmm so you think a better route to go is just two fixtures rather than halide T5? Any particular reason? I was all set to pickup the Cebu but now I'm debating the two cozumel sun with radiums again lol.

This is so great!
There are so many MH lovers coming with their experiences and tips.
I found good info here!

Hi BoomCorals:
I'm not an expert in any way, so this will be only what I've seen and read.
And I have no MHs at home for more than 15 years, so...
I decided to answer your PM here so people could also correct me if I'm wrong, or maybe others would add to my suggestions...

I would avoid the Current USA fixture though and the SE Cayman Sun. I also would think you should get the best you could afford now, so you wouldn't have to change anything in the near future, or have a so so experience with the halides. Besides, as a professional, it's an investment for your business.
I would think that you didn't think about saving when you got your LEDs to your systems, so the same should be applied with MHs. Quality is more important in the long run.

The Current USA isn't the best quality system you can offer and the SE Cayman, as Jeremy Luke posted (see BRS video below), has an awkward distribution because of the position of the center of the bulb that normally fits towards the side of the fixture instead in the very center, so the spread is compromised that way. I don't like the so called HQI (DE) fixtures because of the risk of braking the ceramic ends (they show that in the video below too). That is known since the 90's. They do a great job reflecting though, with superb PAR. I also like to have the outer jacket of the SE bulbs made of UV absorbing glass, besides the lens to protect the bulb, so SE bulbs/fixture is what I like.

The Cebu comes ready to use and it's not that expensive. Besides the T5s will give you the best combination to grow your corals because you can have the halides for like 6 hours and the T5s for 8 hours a day. All in one package!
You can use Radiums 20K with 2 ATI Blue Plus on the extremes and 2 ATI Coral Plus close to the halide bulbs in that fixture. But will that spread the light like the Lumen Bright or the Cozumel Sun?

In your case, because the corals will be ~6" below the water surface, and the tank is 4' X 2', I would definitely get the Coral Vue Lumen Bright or the Cozumel Sun for it's uniformity in distribution.
The Lumen Bright has adjustable socket and is 16" X 16" and the Cozumel Sun gives also a great spread and it's 20 X20. That way, the light will be well distributed. Quality, quality, quality!

I personally like DE bulbs and would get Radium with 2 X Lumen Bright or 2 X Cozumel Sun reflector with the LuXcore ballasts.

Cozumel Sun:

OR Lumen Bright:

LuXcore ballast:

Here is the video for you:

Hope that helps!

Aloha,
Grandis.

 

[MarsRover]

You know that is funny, stopped eating breakfast and lunch at work now your healthier. I am a fan of MH but I would not rule out LED.

lol! I realize now it sounded like i was saying i no longer eat breakfast and lunch i do eat... i am just healthier because i make my own breakfast and lunches now!

 

[jeremy]

Hmm so you think a better route to go is just two fixtures rather than halide T5? Any particular reason? I was all set to pickup the Cebu but now I'm debating the two cozumel sun with radiums again lol.

Call or email Hamilton. Their customers service is great. The cebu sun fixture would be a good choice. T5 and halide.

 

[10Seconds]

Be careful with those cheap fixtures. Not saying you won't like it but quality ballasts and reflectors do matter. Let us know how it looks, pics are better. Lol

I do agree, but if I like it, I can upgrade to the IceCap or Luxcore ballast on it and still be ahead on money. People always are negative on the reflector but looking as the giesemann they copied on it, the reflector design is very similar, so I am thinking that with the Phoenix 14k bulb and leaning towards the Luxcore ballast, I am thinking I will be pretty good shape. And even with both of those, less money than the LEDs that arent really working cost.

 

[BoomCorals]

I have a lot of fond memories of T5 so I'm going with the 48" cebu sun halide/t5, 250w 14k with the 4x 54w T5.

 

[rtparty]

Over the years I've used almost every light source available to us in the hobby. Started with Current USA power compacts, upgraded to a single 150w Phoenix, then straight T5, then all LED (too many brands to even remember including Ecotech), then onto an ATI Powermodule LED and finally I'm back to MH and T5 with Giesemann Spectra. Hands down the Spectra is my favorite. Not a single LED fixture I used or went to see in person compares in MY eyes. Even my wife is disappointed when we walk into a LFS and they are running all LED. She always asks why the light isn't as beautiful as ours.

A Radium with 2 Blue Plus, 1 Coral Plus and 1 ATI Actinic is money for me. Corals look incredible and colors are exceeding my expectations so far. Halide works for me though since I need the heat in a 68° basement any way, electricity is thankfully cheap still and I know I can run halides for 2 years before replacing. With some new BRS testing coming out, I'll even run my T5s for 18-24 months now. In my case, LEDs would cost so much more to run and the initial cost was more for the fixtures I wanted. Got my Spectra with multiple bulbs for less than $400.

 

[BoomCorals]

I ordered the 48" cebu sun. The giesemann might be in the future, but right now, $1149 for just the fixture without ballasts or bulbs is too much for my budget.

 

[Kmsutows]

Man, I've been thinking about MH for a while now this has me pretty much sold. Broadfield's tank on the first page basically sold me. Thats the color im shooting for, as close to natural as possible. There seem to be several options even as far as the spectra goes. Broadfield can you, and others welcome, comment on how to achieve that color on a 6ft (I think) 30"tall 150gal? Also, down the road I hope to upgrade to a 300+ gallon so not sure what my best options are. Ill be saBing for a while either way.

 

[DSC reef]

I have a lot of fond memories of T5 so I'm going with the 48" cebu sun halide/t5, 250w 14k with the 4x 54w T5.

You won't regret that decision @BoomCorals. Plus, dave at Hamilton is awesome!

 

[mcarroll]

I went from T5 with rapidled supplements to 3x250watt radium with rapidled close to a year and a half ago, and unless I move to a state where it's hot all the time I will never not use MH. Growth and color of sps was good under t5 and led but it's definitely increased under halide. What I really noticed more than anything was the response I got out of mushrooms and lps, they inflate much more under this setup. I had to buy an aiptasia eating filefish just to keep my zoas under control as well.

What was the difference in peak PAR or lux between the two lighting setups?

Any reason to consider using HQI?

No – all are good.

For reflector I was thinking a cayman sun mogul (single ended) or I heard that the large Coralvue Lumen Bright Reflector was one of the best right now?

I know I'm too late, but....

$289
CAYMAN SUN™ MOGUL E39 PENDANT SYSTEM
Cayman Sun™ System Metal Halide System​

Hmm so you think a better route to go is just two fixtures rather than halide T5? Any particular reason?

T5's are unnecessary in the setup....they're just really expensive night lights. Radiums are the A-game.

That (and the associated cost of the system and running them) it why I'd have suggested the pendants above or the slightly cheaper (different reflector) one below:

$279
BALI SUN PENDANT SYSTEM
Bali Sun™ Series Metal Halide Mogul E39 Pendant Lighting System​

Too bad Hamilton doesn't make a 4 footer without T5's.

FYI, Radiums on high-power ballasts is what the bulbs made their reputation on. Folks who'd try them on the wrong ballast (which prior to Radiums was and still is, I think, the correct USA ballast) for their 150w and 250w bulbs got the "too blue" look. Only the folks with 400w ballasts would get the magic Radium blue.....it's the odd bulb....actually a 360w bulb, so 400w is high power for those. "Too blue" doesn't mean ugly....beauty is in the eye of the beholder. But that is why there's so much detail known about what it takes to drive them properly! Plus, running them in "nominal power mode" for extra blue just isn't needed. Properly driven Radiums look great on their own!!! Better than great.

 

[BoomCorals]

What was the difference in peak PAR or lux between the two lighting setups?



No – all are good.



I know I'm too late, but....

$289
CAYMAN SUN™ MOGUL E39 PENDANT SYSTEM
Cayman Sun™ System Metal Halide System​

T5's are unnecessary in the setup....they're just really expensive night lights. Radiums are the A-game.

That (and the associated cost of the system and running them) it why I'd have suggested the pendants above or the slightly cheaper (different reflector) one below:

$279
BALI SUN PENDANT SYSTEM
Bali Sun™ Series Metal Halide Mogul E39 Pendant Lighting System​

Too bad Hamilton doesn't make a 4 footer without T5's.

FYI, Radiums on high-power ballasts is what the bulbs made their reputation on. Folks who'd try them on the wrong ballast (which prior to Radiums was and still is, I think, the correct USA ballast) for their 150w and 250w bulbs got the "too blue" look. Only the folks with 400w ballasts would get the magic Radium blue.....it's the odd bulb....actually a 360w bulb, so 400w is high power for those. "Too blue" doesn't mean ugly....beauty is in the eye of the beholder. But that is why there's so much detail known about what it takes to drive them properly! Plus, running them in "nominal power mode" for extra blue just isn't needed. Properly driven Radiums look great on their own!!! Better than great.

As I understand it this fixture can have the ballasts upgraded in order to run radiums if I choose that in the future.

 

[DSC reef]

You can upgrade to the M80 to run radiums on the Hamilton fixture.

 

[Bruce Burnett]

Just like on the reef....>10,000 lux.

>10,000 is about an overcast day.

100,000 lux is full direct sun.

Corals have had a lo-o-o-o-ng time to get used to that range. As a result, they seem to do well across that range....with the caveat that more light = more stress for them. So yes, they do well across that range, but no it's not a "more is better" thing.

In a nutshell, I would shoot for >30,000 lux peak(s) at the surface. That should not only hit the minimum requirements, but all the other stuff too. If your intentions are to emulate a 10,000K surface reef, then you would want about twice that amount of light.



Strangely, even though in the pic earlier mine says 50,000 on the scale switch, it doesn't seem to be limited there. Not sure what the limit is.....maybe 100,000 lux.

I don't garden in direct sun where I'd have to measure levels that high, for better and worse, but the meter has been valuable to me inside and out! I definitely have learned to use it more for other things than just reefing! I can keep tropical plants alive inside for once....so I was (e.g.) able to over-winter my pepper plants last year.

Thanks for the info.
got my Lux meter and with my Orphek on all channels at 100% measured in air distance equal to surface of water 37k lux and at a distance about half of tank depth still above 20k lux equal to bottom of tank >7k lux. I tried doing individual channels but two channels are to much out of the spectral range of the lux meter. I know SPS on very bottom of tank grow especially monti cap. Was worried about too much light.

 

[Kmsutows]

You definitely won't regret the Giesemann Spectra. I had an Aurora and then changed it out for the Spectra.... I don't regret it for a second! Better color and growth hands down over the Aurora.

This is my 48" Spectra over a 60" tank. 2 x 250 watt Giesemann 21k MH and 4 x 54 watt Giesemann Actinic T5.

Broadfield Reefer 450 Sep 2017 by Toby Broadfield, on Flickr

Why did you prefer the spectra over the aurora if you don't mind me asking? I love the look of your tank but feel like t5 may not be necessary during the day and id personally like the blue less for night.

What's different about the Infiniti fixture?

 

[DSC reef]

@BoomCorals, check out the Hamilton 20k bulb, I've been impressed.

 

[BoomCorals]

@BoomCorals, check out the Hamilton 20k bulb, I've been impressed.

Will do. The fixture comes with two 14k and 4 actinic. Will have to see what I might want to swap them with.

 

[DSC reef]

Dave sent me some of there T5 bulbs to try and so far they've been great too. I use 3 of there blue plus equivalent and 1 actinic with there 20k 150 watt DE bulb. Post some pics once you get it.

 

[BoomCorals]

Will do. Need to figure out how I'm going to hang it. Not sure if my makeshift 1.5" PVC tower I'm using right now for the LEDs over it will work or not. Not sure how heavy the cebu sun will be. I have a ceiling hanging kit from another fixture that would work so long as I anchored into studs, but I'd prefer not to have to do that. Will see once it gets here, tomorrow!