Ambient/waterborne TTX poisoning? (Keeping pufferfish)

[fishqueen]

Hello, I'm very new to the forums. I work at a LFS where we keep puffers, currently a dogface and a porcupine, both around 4-5 inches. They've arrived about a few weeks ago and I've been treating them for ich with herbtana and artemiss (so far, they're doing much better, each day better than the rest, eating very well, twice a day, on krill soaked in garlic, fed by tongs, going to convince my manager if I can get them started on mussels, clams, squid etc.)

However I have a lot of concerns about the tetrodotoxin that they possess. I really am hoping they make a full recovery (which I'm hopeful). They're not even my fish, and I worry every night about them. In the very unfortunate case that they do pass away... is there any sort of biohazard I need to be aware of? I heard of horror stories of them wiping out tanks. But other than that, what to do with the water if it is contaminated?? Is this something that if that was the case would you need to contact a poison control center? How do you even dispose of water in which the puffer was in?

I know this is far too much to probably think about, but as someone who cares very deeply about these guys, and of course, not wanting to get poisoned and to poison others (lol) I want to make sure we are taking the best precautions.

 

[SlugSnorter]

the poison getting out into the water is only really a risk they if rot or are wounded.

 

[fishqueen]

the poison getting out into the water is only really a risk they if rot or are wounded.

Ok thank you!

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

Hello, I'm very new to the forums. I work at a LFS where we keep puffers, currently a dogface and a porcupine, both around 4-5 inches. They've arrived about a few weeks ago and I've been treating them for ich with herbtana and artemiss (so far, they're doing much better, each day better than the rest, eating very well, twice a day, on krill soaked in garlic, fed by tongs, going to convince my manager if I can get them started on mussels, clams, squid etc.)

However I have a lot of concerns about the tetrodotoxin that they possess. I really am hoping they make a full recovery (which I'm hopeful). They're not even my fish, and I worry every night about them. In the very unfortunate case that they do pass away... is there any sort of biohazard I need to be aware of? I heard of horror stories of them wiping out tanks. But other than that, what to do with the water if it is contaminated?? Is this something that if that was the case would you need to contact a poison control center? How do you even dispose of water in which the puffer was in?

I know this is far too much to probably think about, but as someone who cares very deeply about these guys, and of course, not wanting to get poisoned and to poison others (lol) I want to make sure we are taking the best precautions.

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

Puffers are only toxic if eaten (they don't release toxins into the water or inject the toxins into people, rather the toxins are literally in the organs such as the skin and/or liver), so I think you'd be pretty hard pressed to get poisoned by them. If they die in the tank, you should remove the body because it will cause an ammonia spike as it degrades, and the ammonia can be deadly to tank inhabitants, but even then the toxin shouldn't be an issue.

If you suspect you've been poisoned, then yes, contact poison control.

To my knowledge, the toxins of pufferfish (tetradotoxin and saxitoxin) are both paralytics, so if you’re not feeling symptoms of paralysis, weakness, or trouble breathing (respiratory failure as the lungs become paralyzed being what generally kills people from these toxins as I understand it), then you’re probably fine. There is an antidote for saxitoxin, but if you are poisoned, they’ll most likely assist you in breathing until the poison has run its course.

That said, I agree that if you’re concerned, you probably should see a doctor for your own peace of mind. If you have been poisoned, the first 24 hours are the really dangerous ones, as most people recover without residual issues if they survive the first day.

And, yes, I would recommend long, waterproof gloves in the future as a safety precaution anytime anyone is in the tank.

Good luck, and I hope you’re safe and well!

Edit: Tetrodotoxin, not tetradotoxin - sorry.

The following link has a ton of info on pufferfish toxins - just search in the document for Tetrodotoxin (and Saxitoxin).

https://www.fda.gov/media/83271/download

 

[fishqueen]

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

Puffers are only toxic if eaten (they don't release toxins into the water or inject the toxins into people, rather the toxins are literally in the organs such as the skin and/or liver), so I think you'd be pretty hard pressed to get poisoned by them. If they die in the tank, you should remove the body because it will cause an ammonia spike as it degrades, and the ammonia can be deadly to tank inhabitants, but even then the toxin shouldn't be an issue.

If you suspect you've been poisoned, then yes, contact poison control.

The following link has a ton of info on pufferfish toxins - just search in the document for Tetrodotoxin (and Saxitoxin).

https://www.fda.gov/media/83271/download

Thank you!! Happy to join. Definitely these guys really inspired me to one day have my own as well. And for the reply as well! It’s very reassuring. I definitely think maybe I’m overthinking way too much on it.

I’ve also read that when people prepare pufferfish, the poisonous organs are then disposed of by like someone who is in charge of securing and disposing hazardous waste material. When our fish pass, we bag them and put them in a separate freezer and every 6 months someone picks them up and cremates them. I suppose that isn’t exactly a safe way for the pufferfish’s body to be disposed of?

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

I’ve also read that when people prepare pufferfish, the poisonous organs are then disposed of by like someone who is in charge of securing and disposing hazardous waste material.

Yeah, part of the reason for that is that some people (mostly homeless people, as I understand it) died eating fugu waste in the garbage; so fugu waste is now required to be stored in locked boxes and transported to a specialize dump to be destroyed. I don't know if there's any danger from cremating the fish's remains though, as it seems to be a relatively common method of disposal from what I've seen.

 

[fishqueen]

Yeah, part of the reason for that is that some people (mostly homeless people, as I understand it) died eating fugu waste in the garbage; so fugu waste is now required to be stored in locked boxes and transported to a specialize dump to be destroyed. I don't know if there's any danger from cremating the fish's remains though, as it seems to be a relatively common method of disposal from what I've seen.

Ahh I see. Thank you so much for the info!

 

[SlugSnorter]

Thank you!! Happy to join. Definitely these guys really inspired me to one day have my own as well. And for the reply as well! It’s very reassuring. I definitely think maybe I’m overthinking way too much on it.

I’ve also read that when people prepare pufferfish, the poisonous organs are then disposed of by like someone who is in charge of securing and disposing hazardous waste material. When our fish pass, we bag them and put them in a separate freezer and every 6 months someone picks them up and cremates them. I suppose that isn’t exactly a safe way for the pufferfish’s body to be disposed of?

The poison is heat stable, but only to a certain point. A cremation would likely be more than enough to destroy the poison.

 

[ingchr1]

 

[The Ginga Ninja]

Hello, I'm very new to the forums. I work at a LFS where we keep puffers, currently a dogface and a porcupine, both around 4-5 inches. They've arrived about a few weeks ago and I've been treating them for ich with herbtana and artemiss (so far, they're doing much better, each day better than the rest, eating very well, twice a day, on krill soaked in garlic, fed by tongs, going to convince my manager if I can get them started on mussels, clams, squid etc.)

However I have a lot of concerns about the tetrodotoxin that they possess. I really am hoping they make a full recovery (which I'm hopeful). They're not even my fish, and I worry every night about them. In the very unfortunate case that they do pass away... is there any sort of biohazard I need to be aware of? I heard of horror stories of them wiping out tanks. But other than that, what to do with the water if it is contaminated?? Is this something that if that was the case would you need to contact a poison control center? How do you even dispose of water in which the puffer was in?

I know this is far too much to probably think about, but as someone who cares very deeply about these guys, and of course, not wanting to get poisoned and to poison others (lol) I want to make sure we are taking the best precautions.

I do feel like puffers kind of constantly "ooze" or secret slimes which tanks and corals don't like, but you can still have fish and corals with a Puffer and rest assured he won't nuke the tank. I even found our puffer dead in our tank after being gone on a week long anniversary trip, and we still he didn't nuke the tank. I sort of believe this to be a rumor, I'd love to hear from someone who actually had a puffer nuke a tank after dying.