Amino Acids

[Fuzzywuzy]

Hey guys,

in light of the brewing vibrant scandal, has anyone done an equivalent analysis of amino acid products? I have tried Reef Plus, CoralAmino, and Acropower.

I have found that acropower is the most 'water like' of the 3 (the other 2 being a viscous liquid)

and acropower is the only one that doesnt make my skimmer go nuts.

wonder why the outcome and appearance of Acropower could be so different, given that Amino Acids as core ingredient should trigger the same skimmer response and liquid appearance

 

[Pkunk35]

Let’s make it more confusing,
KZ “amino acid concentrate” has a yellowish color, smells like vitamins.
their “LPS amino acid concentrate” smells almost like vinegar, is a clear solution.
neither look nor smell like acro power or Brightwell coral amino.
wouldn’t it be easier for them to just list the aminos inside the bottle (only brightwell prints an ingredient list on the bottle)? KZ does this for their 4 color trace element product, one of the bottles actually lists out the amino acids it contains.

 

[Fuzzywuzy]

Let’s make it more confusing,
KZ “amino acid concentrate” has a yellowish color, smells like vitamins.
their “LPS amino acid concentrate” smells almost like vinegar, is a clear solution.
neither look nor smell like acro power or Brightwell coral amino.
wouldn’t it be easier for them to just list the aminos inside the bottle (only brightwell prints an ingredient list on the bottle)? KZ does this for their 4 color trace element product, one of the bottles actually lists out the amino acids it contains.

yea... i wished there were a lot more transparency and user-pool-funded mythbusters for manufacturers' claims.

Imagine if we got a pool going to test:

1) bacteria products (to test bacteria counts and species) - curious about the micro bacters...xlm...microbe lifts (why the hell does it have to be so smelly? they added sulphur to stink it up to convince consumers its a potent bacteria mix??)...

2) amino acids (amino acid types and concentration)

 

[knockout]

I would participate in this pool as I keep buying Acropower without any knowledge of what is actually in the gallon.

 

[SPS2020]

Let's throw RedSea AB+ in the mix too. Crazy fluorescence in that solution. I've used it and AcroPower. The AB+ did seem to increase PO4 when used daily. For some time, I struggled to get any PO4 on my Hanna ULR Checker...then BAM!

 

[SPS2020]

yea... i wished there were a lot more transparency and user-pool-funded mythbusters for manufacturers' claims.

Imagine if we got a pool going to test:

1) bacteria products (to test bacteria counts and species) - curious about the micro bacters...xlm...microbe lifts (why the hell does it have to be so smelly? they added sulphur to stink it up to convince consumers its a potent bacteria mix??)...

2) amino acids (amino acid types and concentration)

"yea... i wished there were a lot more transparency and user-pool-funded mythbusters for manufacturers' claims."

Let's bring @randyBRS back into action! :beaming-face-with-smiling-eyes:

 

[jda]

I did a lot of research on this a while back. First, aminos are not likely in short supply for your corals anyway. Second, nearly nobody lists which ones are in the product (there was one that did at the time) so you don't know what kind of impact that they can have. Third, you likely need all/most of them to do any real good in the way that an amino is supposed to act as a branch chain building blocks and just one or two of them won't do this since you don't have their friends along for the party. Not all kinds would ever likely be stable enough to get dosed in a bottle. A pHd that helped me with some of this compared the bottled amino supplements to a human one that might label as healthy fats and you don't know if trans or omegas are in there... HUGE differences.

The best that they do is to maybe get broken down by some organism, or the coral absorbs them through their slime coat and some nitrogen consumed but it is not used as a true BCAA. It is more likely that they don't really do anything that you cannot get from some more fish food or maybe adding some ammonia. They also likely do not hurt anything unless you already have too high of residual N and P, so if you feel that they help, then go for it. In the end, what goes it still has to come out in some form.

If you do believe that the corals can absorb the aminos raw and get energy from them, then they also have to win a math game. Nearly anything else on a surface in your tank can absorb them too. ...so with corals, and especially frags, having such small surface area, they are not going to get much of what you dose. Colonies can get more, of course.

There is no chance that any hobby based company could afford, nor did spend, enough money to actually see what difference aminos actually make. They are just probably guessing... so not on Vibrant level of just flat-out lies, but also probably not going to do what they say that they do on the bottle. I might be more inclined to try some in a frag system where introducing even an unknown might be good to get some stuff into the system, but in a full-blown reef, I just don't see how they help much over what is already in there.

 

[Pkunk35]

I did a lot of research on this a while back. First, aminos are not likely in short supply for your corals anyway. Second, nearly nobody lists which ones are in the product (there was one that did at the time) so you don't know what kind of impact that they can have. Third, you likely need all/most of them to do any real good in the way that an amino is supposed to act as a branch chain building blocks and just one or two of them won't do this since you don't have their friends along for the party. Not all kinds would ever likely be stable enough to get dosed in a bottle. A pHd that helped me with some of this compared the bottled amino supplements to a human one that might label as healthy fats and you don't know if trans or omegas are in there... HUGE differences.

The best that they do is to maybe get broken down by some organism, or the coral absorbs them through their slime coat and some nitrogen consumed but it is not used as a true BCAA. It is more likely that they don't really do anything that you cannot get from some more fish food or maybe adding some ammonia. They also likely do not hurt anything unless you already have too high of residual N and P, so if you feel that they help, then go for it. In the end, what goes it still has to come out in some form.

If you do believe that the corals can absorb the aminos raw and get energy from them, then they also have to win a math game. Nearly anything else on a surface in your tank can absorb them too. ...so with corals, and especially frags, having such small surface area, they are not going to get much of what you dose. Colonies can get more, of course.

There is no chance that any hobby based company could afford, nor did spend, enough money to actually see what difference aminos actually make. They are just probably guessing... so not on Vibrant level of just flat-out lies, but also probably not going to do what they say that they do on the bottle. I might be more inclined to try some in a frag system where introducing even an unknown might be good to get some stuff into the system, but in a full-blown reef, I just don't see how they help much over what is already in there.

word. Totally agree on the hobby based company thing. Anyone remember Marc Weiss products?

@jda or anyone, what’s your opinion on soaking coral foods in aminos directly and then feeding? I personally get a better feed response if I do this and then I feel as if the amino is actually ingested…do corals even gain amino acids thru ingestion?

 

[Ashish Patel]

I have been using acropower for 5 year and on my new 400 gallon system I am planning on not dosing aminos. Mainly bc its just not cost effective and bc my nutrients and fish load are very high already. I think NO/PO and fish poop is all the amino acids I will need! I do waterchanges every 2-3 months so as long as I am dosing Lugols, Iron, and SR - everything stays stable between waterchanges.

However, on my fishless QT tank, i am probably going to dose aminos just bc not having fish is a big deal, If only i could find them large turbo snails like in the past I would just load them up in the QT.

 

[jda]

word. Totally agree on the hobby based company thing. Anyone remember Marc Weiss products?

@jda or anyone, what’s your opinion on soaking coral foods in aminos directly and then feeding? I personally get a better feed response if I do this and then I feel as if the amino is actually ingested…do corals even gain amino acids thru ingestion?

Have you ever seen any evidence that aminos are in short supply? I never have and while I have asked, searched and looked, I know that I have not seen it all and would love to know if there is something. If aminos are not limitingly low, then soaking probably does not do anything. However, probably does not hurt either.

Injestion will likely differ on coral types. I mostly keep acropora in reef tank and do not think that it helps. Different coral types, different systems like frag flats not in a reef all might matter.